Quinoa Is It Really Bad?

[chrismeyers]

I vote for white rice above quinoa if you have to eat grains at all. Ideally eliminate them, but white rice is pretty darned mild and safe regardless. I recommend you buy Indian white rice and not American because arsenic levels are astronomical in American rices.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I vote for white rice above quinoa if you have to eat grains at all. Ideally eliminate them, but white rice is pretty darned mild and safe regardless. I recommend you buy Indian white rice and not American because arsenic levels are astronomical in American rices.

Arsenic is only a problem in fields that were previously used to grow cotton.

 

[meatbag]

What do you understand for "estrogenic" ?
There are lots of supposed "estrogenic" foods/herbs that in reality "ocuppy estrogen receptors" with a lower activation than other endogenous/exogenous estrogenic stuff so the final balance ends up being ANTIESTROGENIC. Remember context, my friend.

“Whether weak or strong, the estrogenic response of a chemical, if not overcome, will add extra estrogenic burden to the system. At elevated doses, natural estrogens and environmental estrogen-like chemicals are known to produce adverse effects. The source of extra or elevated concentration of estrogen could be either endogenous or exogenous. The potential of exposure for humans and animals to environmental estrogen-like chemicals is high.”

D. Roy, et al., 1997

Have you read this article of Ray's; Natural Estrogens

 

[Makrosky]

“Whether weak or strong, the estrogenic response of a chemical, if not overcome, will add extra estrogenic burden to the system. At elevated doses, natural estrogens and environmental estrogen-like chemicals are known to produce adverse effects. The source of extra or elevated concentration of estrogen could be either endogenous or exogenous. The potential of exposure for humans and animals to environmental estrogen-like chemicals is high.”

D. Roy, et al., 1997

Have you read this article of Ray's; Natural Estrogens

Thanks for the link. I didn't read the article. I don't know enough about estrogens. I said what I said because I could recall a couple of papers posted in this board about certain estrogen-like molecules giving a net negative effect on estrogen levels. Again, I don't know enough to argue about this. Anyway, I know a thing for sure about biochemistry : Agonists to a given receptor can block the receptor without triggering any effect. Just blocking it. Sometimes these agonists differ on a single atom. So why is it gonna be different for exoestrogens ?

 

[Xisca]

Because quinoa is not dehulled or polished (like white rice for example) the seedcoat will form those little curly worms when cooked. Those seem to be completely indigestible, irritate the intestine and will show up in your poop.
It might be alright if you can somehow remove the seedcoat, but I don't think anyone sells something like dehulled quinoa or white quinoa flour.

The curly stuff.... This is not the hull but the sprout!
I am no more eating it at the momento, but I let you know about my recepe to make it better:
They sell a type of quinoa that has no much saponine, but it is still important to wash it.
Then soak for 3 hours and wash again.
Not good to soak more tan this.
Then let it sprout, washing twice per day.
2 days is enough, may be 3 if cold, you will see and get used to it.
Even 1 day is better tan noone.
Then you can cook it!

It will be washed much better, the sprouting will have changed some of the chemistry, and it will cook fast, and it will be much softer... Apart from rice, I would not eat an unsprouted grain!

 

[Makrosky]

The curly stuff.... This is not the hull but the sprout!
I am no more eating it at the momento, but I let you know about my recepe to make it better:
They sell a type of quinoa that has no much saponine, but it is still important to wash it.
Then soak for 3 hours and wash again.
Not good to soak more tan this.
Then let it sprout, washing twice per day.
2 days is enough, may be 3 if cold, you will see and get used to it.
Even 1 day is better tan noone.
Then you can cook it!

It will be washed much better, the sprouting will have changed some of the chemistry, and it will cook fast, and it will be much softer... Apart from rice, I would not eat an unsprouted grain!

Too complicated, no? White rice is much easier.

 

[Drareg]

Everything is marketed at some point. That's our modern world. Someones growing your food and you're buying it. If you don't have your own farm then you buy food that was grown by someone else. A little marketing is fine to encourage more people to try other foods.

Everyone was barbaric back then, including the British, so it's not a good argument. One thing that everyone had in common is that they were all lean and didn't suffer heart disease and cancer like today.



I don't know anyone who eats undercooked starch. It's hard to mess it up.



Even though white rice doesn't have many micronutrients, it has the most important macronutrient; sugar.

You need sugar for the sake of sugar itself.

The Chinese figured out a long time ago that the seeds of oryza sativa (rice) provide a constant supply of much needed glucose, as did all of the other starch eating cultures.

The British were not performing ritual human sacrifice.
Where is your evidence for the incas lack of heart disease? they probably only lived until 40 maximum if they weren't ritually sacrificed.

It is a good argument if everyone was barbaric to look at diet and environment,probably manic from endotoxin load because of quinoa,quinoa was the reason they did cocaine and coffee for relief.
Quinoa comes out in the stool just like seeds,it's a famine food.

 

[Xisca]

Too complicated, no? White rice is much easier.

No, the reverse, we want things too easy and do not know anymore how to process food so that we can eat a greater variety of food without having digestive and metabolic problems!!!!!

Soaking and sprouting is easy and bring a lot of good things by making more life. A dry seed is rather dead, a sprout has life. Quinoa has many minerals etc.

White rice is easy to digest, and rice is the only seed you cannot sprout because it takes too long. Variety in the diet, I enjoyed quinoa but would not eat it wothout sprouting.

 

[Xisca]

The British were not performing ritual human sacrifice.
Where is your evidence for the incas lack of heart disease? they probably only lived until 40 maximum if they weren't ritually sacrificed.

It is a good argument if everyone was barbaric to look at diet and environment,probably manic from endotoxin load because of quinoa,quinoa was the reason they did cocaine and coffee for relief.
Quinoa comes out in the stool just like seeds,it's a famine food.

I never had quinoa in my stool, and I am rather sensitive....
I know a person who has multiple sensitivities, and she can eat quinoa.
It is not a famine food and is rich in nutrients as far as I have read....
They did not have cocain but coca leaves which is very different. It does not drug you but help to stand altitude for example. Ii did chew leaves to pass the high mountains when traveliing by bus and had no altitude problema, and I did not felt any more effect tan a mild anestesia in the mouth.
looked as someting good to go to the dentist!

Do not forget that nowadays we have a quite safe life compared to what it could have been before... so people were more helping inside their family or groups, but more at war outside their relatives! I would just put the sort of violence they lived on account to the lack of security that maybe we cannot imagine well nowdays... though we have some other sort of stresses.

And I LIVE in a place were there is cocain NOWADAYS.
And it is not coca leaves....
I have had problems with adicts and it is not fun....
And this is a very modern problema, thanks to our modern chemistry!
They might if they could, judge us very barbaric to do this....
lol we can judge only the past, and I just wander how we will be judged one day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Quality]

I have been eating quite a bit of Quinoa to add some variety to my starches though I mostly eat potatoes and white rice. Based on my research it seems that it is estrogen and has high levels of saponins though I haven't found anywhere that RP has stated that quinoa is good or bad.. What are your thoughts? Should I dump the quinoa?

First of all, no food is bad, its all about balance and variety you to add to your diet.

Quinoa (spinach and others aswell) have high levels of edcysterones, which are basically plant hormones.
They do not lower your own production so do not worry about that, they have quite alot of health benefits backed up by them, there is a link between quinoa and estrogen receptor beta ( which is the good estrogen receptor, unlike alpha ), namely edcysterones promote muscle growth through estrogen receptor beta, because when they blocked beta receptors the effect disappeared.

 

[Quality]

I found a pubmed article that gives a very detailed breakdown of the major secondary nutrients in Quinoa; . Innovations in Health Value and Functional Food Development of Quinoa (Chenopodium quinoa Willd.)

The article seems so one sided that I'm sure there is some Quinoa industry funding going on. Of particular interest, it states that the "seeds contain phytosterol levels up to 118 mg/100 g quinoa seed.. β-sitosterol (63.7 mg/100 g), campesterol (15.6 mg/100 g), and stigmasterol (3.2 mg/100 g), and these levels were higher than those found in barley, rye, millet, and maize."

It goes on to say how wonderful phytosterols are at lowering cholesterol and inflammation but somehow fails to mention the proven estrogenic effects of B-sistosterol. see “The Phyto-Estrogen B-Sitosterol Alters the Reproductive Endocrine Status of Goldfish,” MacLatchy et al, Toxicology & Applied Pharmocology 1995 134:305-312.

I also found this interesting article whose title really says it all "A Short Note On Quinoa. Is Your Estrogen Level Higher Than Your Wife’s?" .. and actually has some quasi-clinical human trial data to back it up.

@Makrosky that bowl of oatmeal is sounding better and better.

The take home message, people are too paranoid about food that have some direct or indirect link which a degree of estrogenic activity.
The paranoia itself will raise your estrogen more than eating the quinoa............

 

[Queequeg]

The take home message, people are too paranoid about food that have some direct or indirect link which a degree of estrogenic activity.
The paranoia itself will raise your estrogen more than eating the quinoa............

I don't think spending a little bit of time up front to determine what foods are appropriate for your goals leads to stress or paranoia in any way. Isn't that the whole point to Peating. For me I research the issue, make a decision, and then don't worry about it again.

The fact that an MD wrote that his quinoa eating male patients ended up with roughly double the estradiol levels was more than enough for me. A Short Note On Quinoa. Is Your Estrogen Level Higher Than Your Wife’s?. Quinoa's high b-sitosterol and phosphorus content only confirms that conclusion.

there is a link between quinoa and estrogen receptor beta ( which is the good estrogen receptor, unlike alpha ), namely edcysterones promote muscle growth through estrogen receptor beta, because when they blocked beta receptors the effect disappeared.

would you care to provide a reference for these claims.

 

[Quality]

Look up edcysterones @ examine.com.
Once again people are too paranoid about estrogen, unless you have confirmed high estrogen levels or any form of estrogen related cancer you have no need to worry.
This aswell >>> http://www.ergo-log.com/anabolic-effect-ecdysterone-doping-list.html

 

[pboy]

It has a high phosphorus ratio, much higher than white rice and even whole wheat, its one of the worse offenders outside of meat and eggs in this regard, and nuts...about on par with a lot of nuts, worse than some others. The incas chewed coca and probably used other high alkaline calcium herbs to balance the quinoa, and also it was more a celebration food...from what ive read it was not necessarily a daily affair, as was the alkalized corn they lived on. Quinoa ratio of PUFA is pretty high also...so you'd have to balance it with some saturated fat dominant oil...and I'm not sure if the overall amount overcomes that at a certain point. If it takes a lot of time to prepare and clean up, its sort of in a tangible sense inefficient, and also its digestive efficiency might not be that great, which if it is the case, gut irritation is not a good thing...from what I remember as long as it didn't have saponins it wasn't as bad relative to a lot of commonly eaten things, but if it did it was a rush out bad thing, also...its been a while, and despite cooking it a long time theres a good chance see those circle things in the stool, which might be the germ, which is probably the part highest in phosphorus and pufa so if that's a bad or good thing I don't know. It does have a lot more vitamins and minerals than white rice in may regards...folate, choline, copper, magnesium, b6, riboflavin, potassium, thiamin, but at the same time the phosphorus ratio is much higher which is a big issue and might trump the other things depending on what else youre consuming, and its potassium content still might be inadequate without additions. In general also...im pretty sure fructose is better for the liver and thyroid, it sends a better signal, and from my experience most seeds, especially ones grown lower to the ground, definitely grains, and pretty sure quinoa too but maybe to a different extent, but pretty much as bad...honestly, grains and seeds like that send a bad signal and its obvious if youre sensitive, they promote the back of brain retentive bowel mind instead of the free flowing optimistic, human forebrain and true root...not the bowel basically. I don't think many people realize how huge an issue grains and seeds like this are for the collective consciousness and overall problems in the world, for that reason alone. They direct the consciousness away from the forebrain and into the bowel based retentive back of head thing which basically a much more deprived individualistic non giving more closed off state...which probably happens if signals are sent of bad things or deprivation in the environment. I think also any time the pancreas has to produce a ton of amylase it might send a bad signal...not sure about that, but the other issues for sure matter regarding quinoa, grains, many low growing seeds

 

[lollipop]

honestly, grains and seeds like that send a bad signal and its obvious if youre sensitive, they promote the back of brain retentive bowel mind instead of the free flowing optimistic, human forebrain and true root...not the bowel basically. I don't think many people realize how huge an issue grains and seeds like this are for the collective consciousness and overall problems in the world, for that reason alone. They direct the consciousness away from the forebrain and into the bowel based retentive back of head thing which basically a much more deprived individualistic non giving more closed off state...which probably happens if signals are sent of bad things or deprivation in the environment. I think also any time the pancreas has to produce a ton of amylase it might send a bad signal...not sure about that, but the other issues for sure matter regarding quinoa, grains, many low growing seeds

Just wow.

 

[Quality]

So much paranoia on this forum... you people have to start learning to understand that all food is good, its about balancing a diet, every piece of food has pros n cons, the amount people that scrutinize food on this forum is insane.

 

[pboy]

its easy to think that way but it has a profound impact on life, its not paranoid scrutiny...its dedicated detailed observation. There might be some of that but the overall point is something as sensitive does in fact warrant such attention...however yes, it is but one component of overall health and life, albeit a related and very important one

 

[Westside PUFAs]

its one of the worse offenders outside of meat and eggs in this regard

Saying "worst offenders" sounds like fear mongering about some trivial food. The P content of quinoa has nothing to do with how well one who's concerned with their Ca to P ratio balances it. Almost Everything is loaded with P. The ratio has to do with the overall picture.

and also it was more a celebration food...from what ive read it was not necessarily a daily affair,

It's was not just the Incas. People today in SA still consume it, as well as other places.

If it takes a lot of time to prepare and clean up, its sort of in a tangible sense inefficient, and also its digestive efficiency might not be that great,

This is highly subjective. I would put roasted turkey in that category.

they promote the back of brain retentive bowel mind instead of the free flowing optimistic, human forebrain and true root.

They direct the consciousness away from the forebrain and into the bowel based retentive back of head thing which basically a much more deprived individualistic non giving more closed off state...which probably happens if signals are sent of bad things or deprivation in the environment.

This sounds like spiritual stuff.

I don't think many people realize how huge an issue grains and seeds like this are for the collective consciousness and overall problems in the world, for that reason alone.

You mean the caloric engine of humanity? Tell that to the Teff eaters in Ethiopia, who aren't as fat and sick, and have less heart disease.

I think also any time the pancreas has to produce a ton of amylase it might send a bad signal...not sure about that,

But if you go by that you would then have to claim that anything that requires amylase is toxic. So the amylase action of potatoes is toxic too?

 

[Such_Saturation]

@Amazoniac

 

[Giraffe]

The P content of quinoa has nothing to do with how well one who's concerned with their Ca to P ratio balances it. Almost Everything is loaded with P.

It's grains, seeds, nuts and meat that are high in phosphorus and have a bad ratio of calcium to phosphorus.

The ratio has to do with the overall picture.

... but, the ratio is pretty bad in quinoa. How much kale would you want to eat to balance the phosphorus from quinoa?