Pubertal Gynecomastia

[Validus]

I'm doing theoretical investigating for my 12 year old son. He is very muscular and lean. He turned 12 this past April and within the last 2 months has developed a lump under his right nipple.

I understand this is quite common in pubescent boys, but I also understand that if it doesn't go away, treatments become much less successful and are limited to surgery.

The lump is relatively large...about the size of a small bean.

I'm very comfortable experimenting with relatively risky compounds on myself, but not my son, especially hormonal.

With that being said, for years I've been fond of the idea of topical tamoxifen/nolvadex and applying a small amount only on that nipple. My concern would be any systemic effects throughout his body, but my logic is that this would be far less than oral administration.

I'm able to get Tamoxifen Citrate by the gram.

This article below indicates that: "When tamoxifen is taken by mouth, it goes through the gut and into the liver, where it’s broken down into two main active forms, 4-OHT and endoxifen. If we put any drug on the skin that goes directly into the breast, it has to be an active form like 4-OHT, because it won’t pass through the liver to be activated..

So this worries me that tamoxifen's metabolites are what actually "do the work" and so, topical application of tamoxifen may be pointless.

Getting Under Your Skin with Tamoxifen Gel

In a gel applied directly to the breasts, the anti-estrogen drug tamoxifen may help prevent cancer and fight DCIS — with few side effects.

www.curetoday.com

I'm curious on everyone's thoughts on this.

Any ideas on dosing?

Any other less risky ideas for a 12 year old boy?

 

[liam183]

Tamoxifen is much riskier than raloxifene, but you shouldn't use either on a pubescent child. That's just irresponsible. Their transdermal bioavailability is also not great. Most cases of pubertal gyno clear up on their own within a year or two. Focus instead on aromatase inhibition and estrogen detox (not with pharmaceuticals)

 

[John mcclain]

Stop eating processed food.

 

[Validus]

@liam183 Thanks and I agree. I don't want to modulate his hormones, especially while he's still developing. I also don't want him to deal with gyno in the future, if it doesn't diminish on it's own.

A couple of questions: why is tamoxifen riskier than raloxifene?

When focusing on AI and estrogen, I'm thinking zinc, vitamin e, glycine and gut health. Anything else come to mind?

 

[Validus]

@John mcclain He mostly eats things made from home. Even bread he eats is home made, using organic flour. There's certainly room for improvement though. But again, he has zero fat on him and very defined muscles from jiu jitsu, running and some resistance training.

What would you consider the worst processed food to avoid?

 

[GodsHound]

Don't be a re tard those SERMs are toxic, unpredictable, and estrogenic themselves.

 

[Jremy25]

Careful with using tamoxifen in a pubescent boy.

Just for reference, tamoxifen in my experience did nothing for my pubertal gyno (I tried it a decade later, may have worked better if I was still in puberty).

Also didn’t have any luck with ai’s such as Letrozole and aromasin for my gyno.

The only thing which actually worked for me to reverse my pubertal gyno was applying 10% topical DHT gel (from AlphaGels) to my chest/nipple area twice daily for 4 months.

Got rid of my puffy nipples completely and the hard lump has shrunk by 90%.

 

[TacoVampire]

What is his pulse and temperature. What is he eating. What is his tsh?

 

[Validus]

The only thing which actually worked for me to reverse my pubertal gyno was applying 10% topical DHT gel (from AlphaGels) to my chest/nipple area twice daily for 4 months.

Got rid of my puffy nipples completely and the hard lump has shrunk by 90%.

Thanks for this - How old were you when you did this? Did you notice any side effects - being shut down, any difficulties with your HPTGA axis when discontinuing etc?

 

[Validus]

What is his pulse and temperature. What is he eating. What is his tsh?

Temp is typically 98.6. I haven't taken his pulse regularly, but when it's been taken in the past, it's been "normal", but I honestly don't recall what it was. His thyroid has never been tested. He's 12 and very lean & muscular and I haven't suspected hypo or hyperthyroid.

Diet could certainly be better. 90% of his diet is home made food, very little fast food. I wish I could get more protein in him. He leans pretty heavily into carbs.

 

[Validus]

Don't be a re tard those SERMs are toxic, unpredictable, and estrogenic themselves.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I also don't want this to turn into a problem that needs to be addressed by surgery in 10 years for him.

I would never administer anything hormonal orally. Even topically, I'm not sure I would be able to pull the trigger with any SERMS.

I am entertaining potentially trying DHT transdermally.

Even that, I am a bit concerned with interference of his hptga axis....the majority of the time, these instances of pubescent gyno go away on their own in 2 years.

But if they don't go away, treatment is difficult...so I'm just trying to organize my thoughts and be proactive.

 

[Jremy25]

Thanks for this - How old were you when you did this? Did you notice any side effects - being shut down, any difficulties with your HPTGA axis when discontinuing etc?

I was 27 when I did this, so well over a decade past puberty. I was told that my gyno would go away during puberty naturally but it never happened, in fact it got worse into my 20’s.

I didn’t have any HPTGA issues, but I did add in a very small dose of HCG later on into my DHT run to keep my testes working optimally.

I’ve read the studies showing that DHT gel was used clinically to treat young boys with gyno so I wasn’t much concerned from a safety point of view on using it.

 

[Validus]

I was 27 when I did this, so well over a decade past puberty. I was told that my gyno would go away during puberty naturally but it never happened, in fact it got worse into my 20’s.

I didn’t have any HPTGA issues, but I did add in a very small dose of HCG later on into my DHT run to keep my testes working optimally.

I’ve read the studies showing that DHT gel was used clinically to treat young boys with gyno so I wasn’t much concerned from a safety point of view on using it.

Ok, thanks for this. And, what happened to you is what I want to help prevent with my son.

Were you applying it just once per day - before bed or in the AM?

 

[Jremy25]

Ok, thanks for this. And, what happened to you is what I want to help prevent with my son.

Were you applying it just once per day - before bed or in the AM?

I applied it twice per day, in the morning and about 12 hours later in the evening. The vendor told me it has a 12 hour half life.