Been Taking Exemestane To Raise Testosterone. Here's My Bloodwork. Any Thoughts?

[vulture]

Got my proviron and I'm 100% sure it is legit mestelerone. Came in little boxes about the size of a mini toothpaste with 20 tablets in a pack by Bayer (Greece). I am having so much fun with this stuff, libido is through the roof. The gf likes it too Started 25mg /day on monday then 50mg the last two days.

I didn't have low libido or any other low test symptoms before so not sure how it will be for people looking for trt effects, but I'd say it's worth a try if it fits your budget.

how much did you spend on it?
I have a guy who sells Bayers proviron but I read that it wasn't being produced since years ago...not sure if it's a good idea to buy it...

 

[vulture]

Does proviron shut you down??

I think it does as long as I seen in studies. Notice dosage is usually from 25 mg to 150 mg a day. Usually 50-75 mg is the point where mesterolone is gonna supress significantly.
It also dropped estrogen levels (serum), T, body fat % and raised astronomically DHT levels

 

[vulture]

Got my proviron and I'm 100% sure it is legit mestelerone. Came in little boxes about the size of a mini toothpaste with 20 tablets in a pack by Bayer (Greece). I am having so much fun with this stuff, libido is through the roof. The gf likes it too Started 25mg /day on monday then 50mg the last two days.

I didn't have low libido or any other low test symptoms before so not sure how it will be for people looking for trt effects, but I'd say it's worth a try if it fits your budget.

Could you make a T blood test to see if it supressed you? Do you have previous ones?
Also LH/FSH might be great.

 

[Elron]

hey OP, where'd you get your aromasin?

 

[Mauritio]

Possibly but also exemestane is not that effective as an AI (which is not necessarily a bad thing depending on the application).

Pharmacokinetics and dose finding of a potent aromatase inhibitor, aromasin (exemestane), in young males. - PubMed - NCBI

"Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane(Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14-26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mgexemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P <or= 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P <or= 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P <or= 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 +/- 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study."

Compared that with letrozole which at the standard dose of 2.5mg/day is almost guaranteed to render estrogen undetectable. I pointed out in another thread it had been used at a dose of 2.5mg/ once weekly in hypogonadal men in several studies successfully.

Letrozole in Men Weekly

Somatic and psychological effects of low-dose aromatase inhibition in men with obesity-related hypogonadotropic hypotestosteronemia. - PubMed - NCBI
Letrozole normalizes serum testosterone in severely obese men with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. - PubMed - NCBI
Letrozole once a week normalizes serum testosterone in obesity-related male hypogonadism. - PubMed - NCBI

Letrozole in Men Daily

The effect of aromatase inhibitor letrozole on body mass index, serum hormones, and sperm parameters in infertile men. - PubMed - NCBI
Preliminary study of letrozole use for improving spermatogenesis in non-obstructive azoospermia patients with normal serum FSH. - PubMed - NCBI
Changes in hormonal profile and seminal parameters with use of aromatase inhibitors in management of infertile men with low testosterone to estradi... - PubMed - NCBI

Note that low libido is a common side effect of excessive aromatase inhibition.

It seems to be an even better Testosterone booster than aromatase- inhibitor . A 60% increase of Testosterone within 24h is quite staggering.

"Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P <or= 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P <or= 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P <or= 0.003 for both)"

 

[RisingSun]

didn't they get smaller? as far as I understand if they get smaller, you got supressed, but I'm not sure of how reliable is it

Pretty reliable

 

[RisingSun]

how much did you spend on it?
I have a guy who sells Bayers proviron but I read that it wasn't being produced since years ago...not sure if it's a good idea to buy it...

It’s still massively produced by Bayer, in all countries around the world.

You must be mistaking with Masteron, a drug produced by Syntex and discontinued in the late 90s.

 

[RisingSun]

and raised astronomically DHT levels

Where is the study showing values?

 

[vulture]

Where is the study showing values?

You are right, I think we previously talked about this: I wasn’t misinformed and not sure about if it actually increases DHT or just a synthetic DHT like compound
Thanks for info on reliability of testicles size on supression

 

[Cameron]

Does aromasin have research on how much it can raise dht?

 

[Koveras]

It seems to be an even better Testosterone booster than aromatase- inhibitor . A 60% increase of Testosterone within 24h is quite staggering.

"Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P <or= 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P <or= 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P <or= 0.003 for both)"

Similar to other AIs, but the increase in pituitary hormones driving that can be dangerous

 

[Mauritio]

Similar to other AIs, but the increase in pituitary hormones driving that can be dangerous

The other AIs might have similar test-boosting properties, but also have more side effects AFAIK .
Does it elevate only LH/FSH or also pituitary-hormones like GH, or Prolactin . If only the former why would that be dangerous?

 

[fradon]

Tried some new experiments and got some new blood work. See my log for previous bloodwork.

For about 5 weeks now I've been taking 25mg of exemestane (Aromasin) every day. I have also taken tamoxifen (Nolvadex) sporadically — which I realize kind of complicates the variables here, but oh well.

2015-07-02

Testosterone 537      348-1197 ng/dL
Estradiol 25.4        7.6-42.6 pg/mL
LH 17.6               1.7–8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 8.3               1.5–12.4 mIU/mL
Prolactin 16.7        4-15.2 ng/mL     HIGH
ALT (SGPT) 52         0-44 IU/L        HIGH

The exemestane seems to be working. It has raised my testosterone — my previous level was 329 — and that's what I guessed going into the bloodwork because I could feel the physiological change. Increased confidence, increased general happiness, increased motivation, decreased social anxiety and worry. Little things made me happy for the first time in a long time. I don't want to jinx it or to oversell it — it's not like I'm super happy and everything is awesome — but I really do feel markedly better.

My prolactin is lower than before, but still higher than normal. I have not been taking any dopamine agonists to try lower it because I don't like the idea of dopamine agonists.

My slight gynecomastia is still present but at least does not seem to be getting worse. I was hoping the changes in my bodies hormonal cocktail would reverse it — but perhaps it has not been a dramatic enough change, or been a long enough time. But, it has become less important to me compared to the psychological improvements I have felt.

My LH was really high — which is interesting. I'm not exactly sure what to make of that. Perhaps it was all that estrogen that was previously signaling the negative feedback loop on my gonadotropins?

Also, the dosage of Aromasin I am taking is pretty high. Its higher than what seems to be the common dosage that AAS users take when they want to prevent high estrogen side effects. And they talk about the adverse effects of low estrogen — like dry joints — and I have not felt anything like that. I guess my body has just been making a lot of estrogen. Perhaps I should try an AI that's even stronger?

Also I've heard people talking about how prolactin is a better measure of tissue estrogen than plasma estrogen is, and that when plasma estrogen goes higher it may actually be because the body is eliminating it.

My test results seem to corroborate that. Because my plasma estrogen is actually higher than before, but so is my testosterone. And my prolactin is lower and the negative symptoms of low testosterone have diminished.

Considering the big picture:

Low testosterone sucks real bad. Raising my testosterone to this level has resulted in the biggest improvement in well-being and quality of life compared to anything I've experienced before.

But I'm not sure what is the most "healthy" and sustainable route to keeping my testosterone up. What's better/worse: continued AI use, or testosterone replacement therapy?

If I go on TRT though, I'd imagine it might make my estrogen problems worse — so I'd probably need to be on AI's anyway. I don't know.

Any thoughts or advice?

try raising SHBG through diet and resitance training. low insulin high fiber diet will raise SHBG. this will bind up more of the free T you have and keep it from converting to E. increasing glucose and insulin will lower SHBG and release free T.

high prolactin you need to increase dopamine...black tea could help. and nicotine could also help. B6 and COPPER.

 

[Spondive]

try raising SHBG through diet and resitance training. low insulin high fiber diet will raise SHBG. this will bind up more of the free T you have and keep it from converting to E. increasing glucose and insulin will lower SHBG and release free T.

high prolactin you need to increase dopamine...black tea could help. and nicotine could also help. B6 and COPPER.

What is example of a low insulin high fiber diet?

 

[fradon]

What is example of a low insulin high fiber diet?

a salad

meat and fiber rich vegetables.
beef and brocoli
hot dogs and cabbage
chicken and green beans

any of the above with a quarter cup of rice or a slice of bread. or just skip the starch if you don't feel you need it.

anything a diabetic would eat that would not spike insulin and provide a slow but steady release of glucose.

or smaller portions of insulin spiking foods like. instea of a whole ham sandwhich eat half.

open face tomatos sandwhich (12 grams of carbs per slice)

cabbage and kale are good cause they have a lot of fiber will make you feel full and they can give energy for the whole day.

the zone diet by dr barry sears is a good example of low glycemic eating.

 

[Spondive]

a salad

meat and fiber rich vegetables.
beef and brocoli
hot dogs and cabbage
chicken and green beans

any of the above with a quarter cup of rice or a slice of bread. or just skip the starch if you don't feel you need it.

anything a diabetic would eat that would not spike insulin and provide a slow but steady release of glucose.

or smaller portions of insulin spiking foods like. instea of a whole ham sandwhich eat half.

open face tomatos sandwhich (12 grams of carbs per slice)

cabbage and kale are good cause they have a lot of fiber will make you feel full and they can give energy for the whole day.

the zone diet by dr barry sears is a good example of low glycemic eating.

Awesome thank you! Now is this a diet that by increasing shbg and lowering free T and ultimately increase total testosterone output becausevkess free T and ultimately less estrogen to inhibit the axis?

 

[fradon]

Awesome thank you! Now is this a diet that by increasing shbg and lowering free T and ultimately increase total testosterone output becausevkess free T and ultimately less estrogen to inhibit the axis?

SHBG will bind both T and E. it will also bind extra T and keep it from turning it into E by aromatase.

to increase free T just start eating sugar again and spike your insulin it will lower shbg and increase free T but that free T can convert to E.

resistance training also increases SHBG.

so eat meat and vegetables rasie shbg

eat bowls of rice adn it will lower shbg.

 

[Spondive]

SHBG will bind both T and E. it will also bind extra T and keep it from turning it into E by aromatase.

to increase free T just start eating sugar again and spike your insulin it will lower shbg and increase free T but that free T can convert to E.

resistance training also increases SHBG.

so eat meat and vegetables rasie shbg

eat bowls of rice adn it will lower shbg.

Got it how about raising a Total Testosterone?

 

[Koveras]

The other AIs might have similar test-boosting properties, but also have more side effects AFAIK .
Does it elevate only LH/FSH or also pituitary-hormones like GH, or Prolactin . If only the former why would that be dangerous?

All of the pituitary hormones tend to drive cell proliferation - that's what they are doing in the testes - driving the rapid proliferation of testicular and sperm cells - but other tissues are affected as well.

There are some strong associations between FSH, prostate cancer, and bone cancers/metastasis