Bloodwork April 2016 — Low T: Revenge Of The Pituitary

[franko]

Previous threads describing diet and health issues: Franko's Threads

Bloodwork for April 2016
View attachment 2514 View attachment 2515

Blood Pressure & Pulse
150/90
87 bpm

Daily Regimen from Feb 2016 – April 2016
• 1 grain Thyroid
• 2.5mg Bromocriptine
• 10mg Pregnenolone
• 5mg DHEA
• Estroban
↳ Vitamin A - 5,000 IU
↳ Vitamin D - 1,000 IU
↳ Vitamin E - 65mg (100 IU)
↳ Vitamin K2 (MK-4) - 2mg
• Energin
↳ Thiamine HCL (Vit. B1): 50 mg
↳ Riboflavin 5' Phosphate (Vit. B2): 20 mg
↳ Niacinamide (Vit. B3): 100 mg
↳ Pyrodoxine 5' Phosphate (Vit. B6): 6 mg

Regimen Changes
• Biggest change was that I eliminated exemestane and replaced it with DHEA and Pregnenolone in hopes of improving liver health. It seemed to be working for the first month, but in the past few weeks I could feel the Low T symptoms returning and sure enough, my T was very low.

Problems
• Low Testosterone
• High Cholesterol
• High ALT
• High TSH
• High Blood Pressure

Things I Will Try Next
• up it to 2 grains/day Thyroid
• 10mg pregnenolone + 5mg DHEA 2x/day

More Things I Could Try
• Tetracycline, not sure of dosage (pro-Liver)
• 250mg Stinging Nettle (anti-Estrogen)
• 10mg Zinc (pro-Testosterone)
• 650mg Aspirin (anti-Tryptophan)
+ 400IU Vitamin E (anti-Estrogen)
+ 500mg Niacinamide (anti-Estrogen)
+ 4mg Cyproheptadine (anti-Serotonin)
+ 1g Thiamine (pro-CO2)
+ 1g Taurine (pro-Testosterone)

Questions
• What are the best things I can do to improve the thyroid, pituitary, liver issues I have? The above are all things I've researched and have considered.

• What else can I do about Low T? Only things that work are AI's and T injections. I'd like to cure it in a wholistic way addressing the source of the problem — the pituitary — but nothing has worked so far, and in the meantime, the Low T symptoms suck. High PRL is not the cause. And it's not primary hypogonadism because my LH & FSH are normal. I guess I could continue to try to cure my clinical/functional hypothyroidism but again, the wholistic strategy seems futile. I think a by-the-book endocrinologist would simply put me on TRT.

• What could being causing my high ALT? Should I even worry about it?

 

[franko]

If don't mind, @haidut, I sure would appreciate your thoughts on my latest bloodwork.

 

[dookie]

What are the specific "low T" symptoms which are bothering you?

In my opinion, you are taking way too many supplements at once. You can't know if one or several of them are actually adding to your problems, rather than solving them. I suggest testing supplements one by one, until you find one which ameliorates your symptoms. It should be pretty quick too, you should notice a positive change within the first few hours of doing the right thing. Just adding supplements to an already large cocktail, based on their theoretic effects, with the hopes that it will solve your particular individual issues, isn't a good strategy IMO.

Your ALT is not extremely high, and is probably from one or several of the supplements you are taking currently, or from previous use of exemestane.

If the thyroid isn't helping, consider lowering the dose or going off it.

Maybe something simple will prove to be the solution to your issues -- increasing sugar in the diet can have a pro-testosterone effect. Have you considered DHT? It's both an estrogen blocker (aromatase inhibitor) and a potent androgen; it could perhaps help your low T symptoms

 

[supernature]

Biggest change was that I eliminated exemestane and replaced it with DHEA and Pregnenolone in hopes of improving liver health. It seemed to be working for the first month, but in the past few weeks I could feel the Low T symptoms returning and sure enough, my T was very low.

Same was the picture in me after 2-4mg/day DHEA and Preg combo for just a few days trial, it suppressed my libido.
Probably not bad idea will be to back off of some of the things you take, you administered a lot of chemicals already.

Problems
• Low Testosterone
• High Cholesterol
• High ALT
• High TSH
• High Blood Pressure

That looks more like symptoms, not the actual problem/s. Treating just the symptoms, one could go in circles life long.

 

[dookie]

Same was the picture in me after 2-4mg/day DHEA and Preg combo for just a few days trial, it suppressed my libido.
Probably not bad idea will be to back off of some of the things you take, you administered a lot of chemicals already.



That looks more like symptoms, not the actual problem/s. Treating just the symptoms, one could go in circles life long.

How is "High Cholesterol" a symptom? I don't think you can "feel" high cholesterol..

 

[BastiFuntasty]

You could try to do something like the liver protocol, what haidut was doing. He was able to lower his liver enzymes to the absolute bottom end of the skala and even better. I can't find the link to the thread at the moment, maybe someone else has saved it somewhere.

Things to help liver are k2 ( up to 15mg), caffeine( whatever you can handle), niacinamide(100mg several times a day), Taurine/glycine(1-2g or more), very low pufa and especially low fat, at least 100g protein and enough carbs to fulfill your requirements. No aspirin during that time and no dhea preg I would say.

From what I read liver health is so important when it comes to handle preg dhea and even thyroid. It should very powerfully help you detox the excess estrogen and therefore helpf with T.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Bag breathing, co2 and red lights would help immensely.

 

[supernature]

How is "High Cholesterol" a symptom? I don't think you can "feel" high cholesterol..

As a symptom of something going on - as a biomarker, when out of range for ex., not necessarily something you feel or dont feel, with other words some that you're using to guide you, but its not the actual problem that needs to be addressed. The listed biomarkers are not the actual problem/s, they are the outcome of the problem, and there could be even more, way more problematic of high cholesterol, high blood pressure or low Test.

 

[supernature]

He was able to lower his liver enzymes to the absolute bottom end of the skala and even better.

Bottom of the skala and even lower, you mean the lab range i guess. Everything out of that ref range is some to think of, not only the higher above range, but lower below ref range are indicative of something i.e. the less is not always the better, i think.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

Bottom of the skala and even lower, you mean the lab range i guess. Everything out of that ref range is some to think of, not only the higher above range, but lower below ref range are indicative of something i.e. the less is not always the better, i think.

Yep you are right, but I guess you knwo what I meant. Let's say his liver was working damn good^^

 

[Koveras]

And it's not primary hypogonadism because my LH & FSH are normal.

Isn't primary hypogonadism defined as a defect within the gonads? ie. Your LH & FSH could very well be normal but your testicles don't respond to them properly?

Have they ruled out Klinefelter's?

 

[supernature]

Yep you are right, but I guess you knwo what I meant. Let's say his liver was working damn good^^

There are at least 3 possibilities right: ones liver enzymes to be norm, high and low. Experimenting short term even in extremes doesnt make miracles, even thought the liver is in good shape, nor even too much damage, in case if it isn't, i guess.

 

[skycop00]

I am coming off Testosterone, HCG and arimdex in 3 weeks, that should be a blast after 10 years. I am so curious to see how my body responds to being off those scripts. I will then be able to assess the HPTA better!

 

[franko]

What are the specific "low T" symptoms which are bothering you?

In my opinion, you are taking way too many supplements at once. You can't know if one or several of them are actually adding to your problems, rather than solving them. I suggest testing supplements one by one, until you find one which ameliorates your symptoms. It should be pretty quick too, you should notice a positive change within the first few hours of doing the right thing. Just adding supplements to an already large cocktail, based on their theoretic effects, with the hopes that it will solve your particular individual issues, isn't a good strategy IMO.

Your ALT is not extremely high, and is probably from one or several of the supplements you are taking currently, or from previous use of exemestane.

If the thyroid isn't helping, consider lowering the dose or going off it.

Maybe something simple will prove to be the solution to your issues -- increasing sugar in the diet can have a pro-testosterone effect. Have you considered DHT? It's both an estrogen blocker (aromatase inhibitor) and a potent androgen; it could perhaps help your low T symptoms

Low Testosterone symptoms: Depression, anxiety, fatigue, low energy/motivation/ambition.

Yeah, I generally try to make one major change at a time and then wait to see how my symptoms and bloodwork change — the stack I have now is generally the result of those incremental changes over time.

The thyroid has helped in the past, one grain/day used to be enough to keep it in the 1-2 range — not sure why it was high this time, maybe metabolic demands have increased.

IDK, I feel like I've tried all the simple things. I've had low testosterone for a couple years now and have tried various solutions.

I have experimented with DHT — and I did feel better on it — but not sure why I wouldn't just use T if was going to do either.

 

[franko]

Isn't primary hypogonadism defined as a defect within the gonads? ie. Your LH & FSH could very well be normal but your testicles don't respond to them properly?

Yes, primary hypogonadism is a defect of the gonads. And they determine that by measuring low T and high LH & FSH.



My LH & FSH are normal while T is low, which means Secondary Hypogonadism or Hypogonadotrophic Hypogonadism.

Also, I have normal iron levels and I had an MRI to show that I do not have a pituitary tumor.

I have had T levels of up to 700 when using AI's so that also confirms that it's not a defect of the gonads. My theory is that my system is overloaded with estrogen which is inhibiting the production of gonadotropins — T included. Which is why AI's gave me normal T levels without needing any exogenous T.

Mild gynecomastia is another sign of high estrogen that I have.

I'm just not sure if anything other than AI's could be powerful enough to decrease my estrogens.

 

[skycop00]

Yes, primary hypogonadism is a defect of the gonads. And they determine that by measuring low T and high LH & FSH.

View attachment 2523

My LH & FSH are normal while T is low, which means Secondary Hypogonadism or Hypogonadotrophic Hypogonadism.

Also, I have normal iron levels and I had an MRI to show that I do not have a pituitary tumor.

I have had T levels of up to 700 when using AI's so that also confirms that it's not a defect of the gonads. My theory is that my system is overloaded with estrogen which is inhibiting the production of gonadotropins — T included. Which is why AI's gave me normal T levels without needing any exogenous T.

Mild gynecomastia is another sign of high estrogen that I have.

I'm just not sure if anything other than AI's could be powerful enough to decrease my estrogens.

I am hearing good reports with I3C and or Calcium D Glucarate. IMO it all goes back to the liver.

 

[skycop00]

All in all TRT has been a life saver as far as being able to function when there seemed to be no answer from the medical community. My chances are slim that the body will recover with acceptable levels ot T for me to be happy. We shall see. I will be using clomid in the protocol

 

[skycop00]

I feel adrenal estrogen is an issue. I know with animals we can use high dose methlyprednisone to raise IgA levels to subside adrenal estrogen being produced by the gland. Simultaneously thyroid is given to elevate metabolism and increase B and T cell immunity. So we quell the outflow of estrogen and by doing that we normalize levels which help the body in so many ways. I have seen sudden blindness reversed in many dogs. It all circles back to runaway estrogen.

 

[James_001]

I am in the same boat. Are you thinking of just using trt long-term?

 

[skycop00]

I am in the same boat. Are you thinking of just using trt long-term?

No I am attempting to stop TRT in a few weeks. I have been on it in one form or another for 10 years. I now use Testosterone, arimidex for estrogen control and hcg. I have tried the Peat style of eating and while I have not gained weight, my cholesterol labs look terrible for sure. So, I will have to decide how I want to proceed dietwise.