Peating Making Me Feel Horrible, Especially Ruining Hair

[Strongbad]

Another thing to watch out for is not to fall for snakeoils on candida-diet community. Herbs this, herbs that etc. You might end up spending $$$$$ for their anti candida supplements. You only need these to flush out your candida and strengthen your heart:

- 5g of ascorbic acid + 200mg niacin + 4 tablets of vitamin B complex to flush out candida. This dosage works well for me, but your mileage may vary so feel free to play around with the dosage. If you start feeling nausea and constant feeling of almost vomiting, reduce the ascorbic acid. I've done 20g+ of ascorbic acid before without problems but lately I had nausea and almost-vomiting symptoms, so I reduced the dosage. It seems like my body starts to produce adequate amount of stomach acid now.

And get used to the "flushing" sensation from niacin. You know that it's working...

- 3g of potassium + 3g of carnitine spready throughout the day (1g each in the morning, then late noon, then evening). This strengthen your heart and make it burn those pesky fat and fatty acids into energy. Stronger heart will help pushing the toxin and candida out via bloodstream into your poop. Carnitine also helps saturating your heart so that toxins like ammonia is lessen. Ammonia makes your gut alkaline (instead of acidic) and candida thrives in alkaline gut.

Regular food is meat and some green leaf vegetables.

Once you get rid of candida, work on strengthening your liver, kidney and heart so that they can deliver proper hormones to thyroid and fix your hypothyroidism.

 

[Giraffe]

Hi everyone,

A few months ago, when I first started taking T4/T3, I felt GREAT. My hair felt better than ever, my skin looked better than ever, I had more energy than ever, etc. My pulse was always in the 90s as well. However, this feeling only lasted for a few days. Now, even though I take the same amount of supplementation, my heart rate is back in the 60s/70s like it used to be, and I feel/look crappy.

Did I suppress my own production? Am I producing too much reverse-T3? Any help would be appreciated.

Lampofred, I moved this post to this thread here. If you want advice, it is better not to spread information over several threads.

I second the others (minus Strongbad). Eat more! You need more carbs and protein. Skip your supplements. Magnesium oxide is poorly absorbed. How about epsom salt baths, coffee, broth from kale or other leafy greens?

3 grains NDT is a lot. What was your starting dose? How fast did you raise the dose? I understand you have no lab tests, right? Did you have symptoms of hypothyroidism?

 

[Peata]

How many calories do you eat per day?

 

[DaveFoster]

You need caloric density. Up your calories by 25% and reduce your water intake by 25%. See how you feel.

 

[Brasica]

Honestly dude you're not gonna stop your hair loss eating college cafeteria food. I guarantee that is what is accelerating loss.

Peating was accelerating my hair loss whilst I was working out which foods do and don't work for me.

Do you have a scalp itch or does your hair hurt to touch sometimes? Your aim should be to eat foods that relax you, to get heart rate up, temp up AND to work out which foods increase/decrease hair pain/scalp itch.

Don't take strongbads advice. If you raise your metabolism eating the foods that work with your system candida will fix itself. It is a symptom of an unhealthy metabolism.

I'm also vegetarian. It can be done.

 

[Koveras]

I would say high dose plain niacin can be problematic for you since the flushing it causes is related to histamine release - which would likely aggravate conditions of the skin/scalp/hair.

I would suggest trying niacinamide in its place.

Now that you are taking thyroid it may be time to have another conversation with your doctor, explain your reasoning, and ask for tsh/t4/t3 testing to see if you are staying in an appropriate range.

As far as the fat intake you may want to try keeping that on the low / very low side even if they are "peat approved". Try limiting yourself to 1-2 eggs a day, drink lots of skim milk, and make up a lot of calories from fruit, rice and potatoes.

There may be some nutritional deficiencies to address as other members have suggested, but I think that getting the calories up with a good diet is a good place to start.

Try eating more frequently, if eating more in some sittings does not seem doable.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

BTW its Vitamin E you need when encountering PUFA in it's wild form. Niacinamide is great for lowering fatty acid liberation from ones own bodyfat stores.

 

[lampofred]

I had symptoms of hypothyroidism, which is why I started taking NDT. Actually, I had alternating symptoms of hypothyroidism/adrenaline-fueled hyperthyroidism, which made me think I had Hashimoto's like my father. That's why I started taking NDT.

I started cooking my eggs in coconut oil (I eat a lot of eggs... usually 6-8 per day), and I immediately noticed a huge increase in appetite, pulse, body heat, and hair growth. That only lasted for a few hours though. I'm back to a normal, hypo, pulse-in-the-60s state right now. So even though that worked for a short while, it's not permanent, and I'm still trying to figure out how to keep metabolism high.

I've noticed that whenever I eat a lot of rice or drink sugary drinks, my dandruff and hair loss increases. So although carbs and sugar are Peat-approved, they don't work for me. I feel good when I eat very high protein and high fat foods, like eggs and also fruits like blueberries.

 

[Greg says]

'Peating'

'Jesus was not a Christian, Buddha was not a Buddhist and Ray Peat is not a Peatarian. ' - Karen Mcc

I just read this article and I think it's important for everyone interested in Ray Peat to step back every so often and see the bigger picture.

Stop RePeating | Vision and Acceptance

'So why does someone who is “Peating” focus exclusively on nutrients while trying to heal themselves when there are so many other moving parts? To only place an emphasis on nutrition and the minutia of nutrients makes a mockery of life and erodes the dignity of the human experience. There is so much more to humans than nutrients.' - Karen Mcc

Trying to reach the goal of 'health' is very much like trying to stick a flag in the snow pin pointing the north pole. It's impossible, well you may reach the spot, but 2 minutes later its moved. I have reached optimal health many times in my life, then when I do I end up loosing my health for a while, then repeat the process.

Life is a condition alternating between excitation, destruction and unbalance, and reorganization, equilibrium and rest. - Kurt Goldstein

Another thing to watch out for is not to fall for snakeoils on candida-diet community. Herbs this, herbs that etc. You might end up spending $$$$$ for their anti candida supplements. You only need these to flush out your candida and strengthen your heart:

- 5g of ascorbic acid + 200mg niacin + 4 tablets of vitamin B complex to flush out candida. This dosage works well for me, but your mileage may vary so feel free to play around with the dosage. If you start feeling nausea and constant feeling of almost vomiting, reduce the ascorbic acid. I've done 20g+ of ascorbic acid before without problems but lately I had nausea and almost-vomiting symptoms, so I reduced the dosage. It seems like my body starts to produce adequate amount of stomach acid now.

And get used to the "flushing" sensation from niacin. You know that it's working...

- 3g of potassium + 3g of carnitine spready throughout the day (1g each in the morning, then late noon, then evening). This strengthen your heart and make it burn those pesky fat and fatty acids into energy. Stronger heart will help pushing the toxin and candida out via bloodstream into your poop. Carnitine also helps saturating your heart so that toxins like ammonia is lessen. Ammonia makes your gut alkaline (instead of acidic) and candida thrives in alkaline gut.

Regular food is meat and some green leaf vegetables.

Once you get rid of candida, work on strengthening your liver, kidney and heart so that they can deliver proper hormones to thyroid and fix your hypothyroidism.

Many years ago I had full on candidiasis. Twice. I was bed ridden. I went to see a Naturopath and after a few months of the 'standard' procedure I got rid of it. No sugar, anti-fungals, herbs, colonics, probiotics etc. I then went on to become a Naturopath/ Nutritionist after 5 years at school. Now I do not do any of that stuff I learnt. But it did work to heal me. My point is, is that I took on a RP attitude by self experimenting, self rescuing myself. There isn't just one way of getting to the top of the mountain. Maybe the route I chose wasn't the most efficient, maybe it caused me some damage, but that whole journey brought me to discover Ray Peat. As Ray has said himself he has done a load of damage to himself on his route to healing himself through self experimentation. It's all about the journey.

 

[Zachs]

How many calories a day do you eat...

 

[Richiebogie]

Hi lampofred, are you avoiding grains (except white rice), avoiding legumes, eating mainly fruit and potatoes and supplementing any crystallized sugar with quality salt?

I lost my hair quite young. May have been from absorbing too much iron. Perhaps see if full fat milk can replace some of your eggs...

Or wait to see if my hair comes back!

 

[Sheila]

Dear Greg
That was a most beautiful post, thank you.
I am always disappointed to see " "Peat" made me this, or did this or that" in a title. It feels like the anti-thesis of Dr Peat's approach, or rather, lest I join in too, what I perceive that approach to be.
It's a completely individual journey as you point out. And the journey of self-discovery and experimentation appears to be the point and in good times or bad is the fun, but sometimes only on reflection of course....
Eleanor Roosevelt said “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I might add that "No one can make you anything without your consent."
In my work, I have seen things work that technically shouldn't, things not work that "should".
Results that go against my expectations only serve to show me how little I know and that the picture is so complex though, once understood each step, each time, is elegantly simple.
Those steps can take me five minutes or five years.
I find it interesting that with greater, sustained energy, I am losing the desire to be prescriptive any more, in my work, in all things, who am I to tell another person what is right for them? Perhaps good, sustainable energy production is the ultimate anti-authoritarianism?
Certainly there is no disease like "My Disease", everyone has an individual relationship to the collection of symptoms that we label, for convenience, as a disease state.
Thank you again, I shall now return to Sheila-ing.
Sheila

 

[mayweatherking]

You reallllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy need to get blood work. Like really really bad. I also am dealing with hair loss for the past 8 months and my vitamin D has been off nearly most of the time. You need it to be between 50 and 60, I think that's probably a big part of it since you need vitamin D to suppress prolactin and absorb calcium. Estroban would be best for that from haidut, but his are like these little doses of 1k IU per 8 drops so I have been doing like 3 or 4x the dose everyday. Red light will make you feel better. You could also have low cholesterol, if you are taking thyroid, that could be why you started feeling like ***t, your cholesterol could have dropped too fast. that's what happened to me, I started thyroid and then my cholesterol dropped to like 120 from like 170 or 180 it was crazy dude. I started doing way more sugar in my milk and eating more eggs just to keep it up.

You might want to look into DHEA, do you need that for progesterone? I know you need it for pregnenlone, I'm about to try combining all 3. For the dandruff, liver and thyroid is supposed to help, so you really need to be eating liver, I bet you aren't. Or you are probably not eating oysters either or lamb shanks. Those are some other important ones from the Danny Roddy world. I'm not any expert, I'm also losing a lot, but gaining some traction.

I noticed going to the bathroom is huge as well. You need those carrots to do it. T3 also helps with constipation.. but I can't handle T3 alone right now, maybe you can, but it would be wise to test your cholesterol first before you go that route.

your prolactin is supposed to be below 7, your cholesterol is supposed to be like 200+, vitamin D between 50 and 60, i guarantee you some of yours are off.. i felt a big difference once my D started going up.. i *felt* a difference, but still felt the itch. i'd say the preg/DHEA right now is making a difference for me a litle bit in the time being.. but i also had very low testosterone and next to no libido for like 7 years so i'm not sure if your situation is the same as me.......

i was getting blood work 1/x a week to keep track of my vitamin D lol

 

[tara]

-I started tracking my diet on cronometer.com to make sure I get at least 80g of protein a day and 200g of carbs a day.

How many calories do you eat per day?

How many calories a day do you eat...

That's my question number 1 too. :)
Unless you are getting milk-fat or other fat for the other two thirds of your calories, I'd guess fuel deficiency might be the top of the list of reasons for not producing enough energy? Or if you are eating that much fat, even mostly saturated, then perhaps you are weighting a bit heavily on that end of the Randle see-saw? I have not seen Peat recommend eating as much fat as possible, but if you need some for caloriees by all means include some. Even milk-fat has a little unsaturated fat in it.

My doctor wouldn't prescribe me anything because on the TSH test he said I was within range (but I don't know the actual number), ...

I think your dr may be obliged to give you the numbers from your previous tests if you ask. I'd recommend it so you have more info to go on. Post them here if you want to - you'll get different interpretations of the 'normal' range.

What form of niacin do you take?
Nicotinic acid...I heard non-flush forms are dangerous for the liver?

Peat usually recommends niacinamide.

Magnesium oxide. The supplement I take is 4-in-1, so it's Cholecalciferol, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, and Zinc Sulfate all in one.

Mg oxide is probably not the best form. There are threads with related discussion.
Many tablets have undesirable excipients - lot of us look out for these. You can take a look at Dan' Wich's toxinless.com site for info.
Peat has mentioned broths from green veges as useful for magnesium. In order of preference, milk, eggshell powder, oystershell powder for calcium.

and I immediately noticed a huge increase in appetite, pulse, body heat, and hair growth. That only lasted for a few hours though.

Wow, does your hair grow so fast you can tell it's sped up in a few hours? :)
8 eggs at one sitting is a lot of potentially insulinogenic protein - it could take a lot of sugar/carbs to balance that. May be better to eat those eggs 2 at a time across the day?

Did I suppress my own production? Am I producing too much reverse-T3? Any help would be appreciated.

Did you suddenly start taking a massive dose of T3+T4? I'd recommend starting small, and only incrementing after 2-3 weeks when you can see what the effect is (temps , heart-rate, how you feel, etc). If you took too much, your body is likely to take defensive action to lower metabolism again, possibly via rT3.

I guess you are aware that Strongbad's posts do not reflect Peat's recommendations very closely. Not to say you can't find something useful in there, but don't take it as 'Peaty ' advice.

 

[DaveFoster]

There isn't just one way of getting to the top of the mountain. Maybe the route I chose wasn't the most efficient, maybe it caused me some damage, but that whole journey brought me to discover Ray Peat.

There is one best way to get to the top of the mountain.

 

[tara]

I just read this article and I think it's important for everyone interested in Ray Peat to step back every so often and see the bigger picture.

That's a great article. I liked this snippet, too:
' But like Joseph Campbell says, “If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s.” '

My point is, is that I took on a RP attitude by self experimenting, self rescuing myself. There isn't just one way of getting to the top of the mountain.

:)

 

[James IV]

I would really really stop focusing on the minutia and look at the bigger picture. You felt better when you started thyroid because your body actually had the energy to get all its systems running optimally. But without support nutritionally, the system will eventually down regulate even with the external thyroid support, even with all the micronutrient supplements in the world.

Id suggest you forget about supplements and flushes and all of that, and pay attention to what foods digest and assimilate easily. If you are hypo, and you have poor digestion, you need to focus on foods that are dense in glucose, and low in ANYTHING that taxes your digestive system. Fiber(even soluble), Solid fats (as in nuts or the chunky kind on meats), protein that's chewy/sinewy are all burdens on impaired digestion. Too much fat (and protein to an extent) are also going to hinder glucose utilization and therefore delay cellular healing. Even fructose, or high amounts of liquid can burden an impaired system, which is why many get into trouble using juice as a carbohydrate staple.

I'd suggest you Find a starch source that's easy to digest and base each of your meals
Around it. Think high glycemic. Even white rice can be difficult If it's a low glycemic variety like most long grains. Short grain, well boiled, sushi rice could be a good choice. White rice flour or cream of rice probably even better than that. Peeled, boiled, and mashed whitePotatoes, served hot, comes to mind. Or my personal favorite, unenriched WHITE flour. Pancakes made with small amounts of butter and coconut oil, an egg yolk or two, some salt, and maybe some additional egg whites if you need a little extra protein, can be a very digestion friendly and prometabolic meal.

I would not bother with trying to balance gut bacteria because it's a dynamic environment and probiotics, antibiotics, prebiotic and so on, are going to be a shot in the dark at best. If your body has sufficient energy (macronutritional), and it's basic micronutritional needs are met (which is fairly simple to meet with even small amounts high nutrition foods in the mix) it will balance out your gut on its own. You don't have to get 100% of all your micronutrients everyday. A couple eggs yolks, an ounce or two of liver or even stewed red meat or broth, and some cooked fruit or boiled broth juice, here and there should be more than enough to keep you topped off if you are not eating lots of draining foods, like the burdensome foods I listed above, and of course avoiding PUFA.

Also, don't focus on your hair. You certainly can't tell if your hair is growing or getting better in just a few hours!? It takes time for changes to set in. Sometimes things that are good for you may temporarily seem to be bad for your hair and deter you from healing. Focus on your temperature, mood, sleep, and energy levels. Get those in check and the best head of hair you are genetically capable of, will follow.

 

[m_arch]

I would really really stop focusing on the minutia and look at the bigger picture. You felt better when you started thyroid because your body actually had the energy to get all its systems running optimally. But without support nutritionally, the system will eventually down regulate even with the external thyroid support, even with all the micronutrient supplements in the world.

Id suggest you forget about supplements and flushes and all of that, and pay attention to what foods digest and assimilate easily. If you are hypo, and you have poor digestion, you need to focus on foods that are dense in glucose, and low in ANYTHING that taxes your digestive system. Fiber(even soluble), Solid fats (as in nuts or the chunky kind on meats), protein that's chewy/sinewy are all burdens on impaired digestion. Too much fat (and protein to an extent) are also going to hinder glucose utilization and therefore delay cellular healing. Even fructose, or high amounts of liquid can burden an impaired system, which is why many get into trouble using juice as a carbohydrate staple.

I'd suggest you Find a starch source that's easy to digest and base each of your meals
Around it. Think high glycemic. Even white rice can be difficult If it's a low glycemic variety like most long grains. Short grain, well boiled, sushi rice could be a good choice. White rice flour or cream of rice probably even better than that. Peeled, boiled, and mashed whitePotatoes, served hot, comes to mind. Or my personal favorite, unenriched WHITE flour. Pancakes made with small amounts of butter and coconut oil, an egg yolk or two, some salt, and maybe some additional egg whites if you need a little extra protein, can be a very digestion friendly and prometabolic meal.

I would not bother with trying to balance gut bacteria because it's a dynamic environment and probiotics, antibiotics, prebiotic and so on, are going to be a shot in the dark at best. If your body has sufficient energy (macronutritional), and it's basic micronutritional needs are met (which is fairly simple to meet with even small amounts high nutrition foods in the mix) it will balance out your gut on its own. You don't have to get 100% of all your micronutrients everyday. A couple eggs yolks, an ounce or two of liver or even stewed red meat or broth, and some cooked fruit or boiled broth juice, here and there should be more than enough to keep you topped off if you are not eating lots of draining foods, like the burdensome foods I listed above, and of course avoiding PUFA.

Also, don't focus on your hair. You certainly can't tell if your hair is growing or getting better in just a few hours!? It takes time for changes to set in. Sometimes things that are good for you may temporarily seem to be bad for your hair and deter you from healing. Focus on your temperature, mood, sleep, and energy levels. Get those in check and the best head of hair you are genetically capable of, will follow.

Solid advice!
When I first started peating a month or two ago, I found this to be true too - too many liquids aren't good.
You can also try condensed stuff - less liquid more nutrient.

But if you're eating café food then its not really peatish, probably drenched in PUFAs..

 

[lampofred]

Updates:

Good things: I don't know what happened, but my dandruff is completely gone... I haven't been able to get rid of it for around 10 years, and as I increased my milk intake and sugar intake to increase Vitamin D, I guess my Vitamin A and Vitamin D ratios balanced.

Bad things: my hair loss hasn't stopped at all, and I'm suddenly having problems with hyperventilation. What's weird about the hair loss is that it has started growing back on the temples but started shedding even more on the crown. Hormonally, does anyone know what's going on? Also, it's a lot harder for me to catch my breath...literally any activity involving movement makes my heart beat very quickly, and I'm not nearly as fast as I was just a few weeks ago. However, my resting heart rate and my temperature are still low. I'm getting worried about my heart health.

Thanks for all the replies so far!

 

[mayweatherking]

are you feeling the "itch" on your head? i'd say that's the most tall tale sign of hair loss. if you are losing hair without the itch, maybe you are all right. i notice i get the "itch" if i eat foods that i can't handle right below a temp of 98.6 for sure.