Choline-stablized Orthosilicic Acid Stop My Hair Loss, But Should I Cont

Momentum

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
150
About 10 years ago, in addition to a myriad of symptoms my hair started to fall by the hand fulls. I was in my mid forties. A hair loss physician asked me to try a supplement before upping the ante. The supplement was Regenemax - which at the time only contained choline-stablized orthosilicic acid (it now also contains biotin). The supplement directions state to take two capsules per day. The doc recommended 1 capsule 5 days a week. The supplement started working almost immediately to prevent hair loss, and soon I could feel new growth. Within a year my hair was growing well, and beautiful.
Over the years I tried cheaper substitutes, namely Biosil, and after about 3 months my hair started falling out. At one point Regenemax came out with a liquid version - mg for mg was about half the cost - so I switched. Again after about 3-5 months my hair started falling. This time I phoned the manufacturer because I was concerned that I may have received a counterfeit product. The rep discovered that the product was genuine, but he made the comment that he didn't understand why the company had decided on a liquid version because the active ingredient is extremely difficult to stabilize. I went back to the capsules, and the fall stopped and growth returned.
I'm concerned, due to comments on this forum, about the choline. Currently, I'm working on strengthening my veins and using MSM. I believe that using the CSOA for over 10 years has definitely improved my collagen as I've always looked younger than my age-until recently; quickly I've aged and my veins strength is very poor. I'm not sure if I should increase or decrease the CSOA, but I decreased it recently and hair loss was immediate.
 

Dave Clark

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,271
I had used liquid Biosil for 25 years with a full head of hair and nice complexion. Used choline too. Actually, if you are concerned about negative talk on choline, you might as well know the consensus is about the same for silica.
 

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,520
I think people vary enough that choline should not be labeled as good or bad, like PUFA. Choline has been shown in studies to prevent fatty liver disease on certain extreme diets. There is definitely a place for it. Now supplementing it like you have...who knows
 

Momentum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
150
I had used liquid Biosil for 25 years with a full head of hair and nice complexion. Used choline too. Actually, if you are concerned about negative talk on choline, you might as well know the consensus is about the same for silica.
Well, for now I'll keep taking it because if I stop my hair falls out. What I'm concerned about is that recently I seem to be needing more, so I am adding in several Ayurveda protocols. I'm glad that BioSil worked for you. IIRC when I tried BioSil I tried it at the same dose, 1 capsule M-F and after many months I began loosing hair. So if the ingredient is difficult to stabilize maybe BioSil's wasn't as potent for me. IDK


I think people vary enough that choline should not be labeled as good or bad, like PUFA. Choline has been shown in studies to prevent fatty liver disease on certain extreme diets. There is definitely a place for it. Now supplementing it like you have...who knows
Agreed, this is all very interesting and complicated trying to regain and balance complicated health issues. I'm very thankful that CSOA stopped my hair loss when it did, but I definitely have other health issues to address. I am even wondering if it prevented further health issues as many of my symptoms appear to be a collagen deficiency problem (vascular and hypermobile EDS).
 

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,520
Well, for now I'll keep taking it because if I stop my hair falls out. What I'm concerned about is that recently I seem to be needing more, so I am adding in several Ayurveda protocols. I'm glad that BioSil worked for you. IIRC when I tried BioSil I tried it at the same dose, 1 capsule M-F and after many months I began loosing hair. So if the ingredient is difficult to stabilize maybe BioSil's wasn't as potent for me. IDK



Agreed, this is all very interesting and complicated trying to regain and balance complicated health issues. I'm very thankful that CSOA stopped my hair loss when it did, but I definitely have other health issues to address. I am even wondering if it prevented further health issues as many of my symptoms appear to be a collagen deficiency problem (vascular and hypermobile EDS).
ahh, well if you have EDS then I am sure you have read about possible acetylcholine deficiencies...in which case Alpha GPC, Citicholine, and whatever else would be right up your alley.
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
1,819
There's monomethylsilanetriol (Orgono Living Silica). I like the MSM + silicon/monomethylsilanetriol + vitamin C combo. 4:1 MSM:C.

Silicon is said to increase hydroxyproline.

Do you also take gelatin to maintain a good glycine:methionine ratio?

Some forms/sources of silicon are said to cause vitamin B1 deficiency.
 

Momentum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
150
ahh, well if you have EDS then I am sure you have read about possible acetylcholine deficiencies...in which case Alpha GPC, Citicholine, and whatever else would be right up your alley.
I don't have a confirmed EDS diagnosis, yet, but OMG, I fit all the symptoms - along with all of the thiamine deficiency symptoms. I will look into the other things you've listed. (I do have several auto-immune issues and confirmed Lyme with co's.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe thiamine supplementation will increase acetylcholine?

There's monomethylsilanetriol (Orgono Living Silica). I like the MSM + silicon/monomethylsilanetriol + vitamin C combo. 4:1 MSM:C.

Silicon is said to increase hydroxyproline.

Do you also take gelatin to maintain a good glycine:methionine ratio?

Some forms/sources of silicon are said to cause vitamin B1 deficiency.
That is so funny, my next tab over is the Orgono's site! I've only found two retailers that sell MMST; Orgono and Search Results for “mmst” | Cyto-Matrix (which is only available through professionals). Not sure if one is better than the other.

It's starting to become more clear, years ago I was taking 2 tsp of MSM crystals (along with vitamin C). The very first week I was picking up so much more thyroid hormone that I went off my thyroid meds for about a week. So it definitely cleared out/up my receptors. Then after about 12-15 months my veins became amazing. I had been a phlebotomists nightmare, at one point I had to have a picc line, but after a while on MSM my veins were treat. After a few years, and still suffering other health issues, I stopped the MSM. Just got tired of gagging down the bitter powder. Now I'm realizing that was a mistake. I'm back on the MSM/C and filling 000 capsules once a week so I don't have to gag it down. I'm glad to hear you like the MSM+MMST+C. I just need to get the MMST ordered ;-)
Tell me more about the glycine:methionine ratio please. I've been taking 1-2 teaspoons of glycine daily for about 4 months as per Dr Deitrich Klinghardt's detox protocol; glycine detoxifies glyphosate. He recommends 2 teaspoons for up to 6 months, then drop down to 1/4-1/2 teaspoon for life. I haven't been taking gelatin, but I do have a bag of nice grass fed beef gelatin in the cupboard.

Yes, MMST is better absorbed according to one study.
This one one impressive study I read today: ughhh, thought I left the tab open, but I guess I didn't.

I think I need to get some of Haidut's magnoil :): Pretty sure I'm very low.
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
1,819
I don't have a confirmed EDS diagnosis, yet, but OMG, I fit all the symptoms - along with all of the thiamine deficiency symptoms. I will look into the other things you've listed. (I do have several auto-immune issues and confirmed Lyme with co's.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe thiamine supplementation will increase acetylcholine?


That is so funny, my next tab over is the Orgono's site! I've only found two retailers that sell MMST; Orgono and Search Results for “mmst” | Cyto-Matrix (which is only available through professionals). Not sure if one is better than the other.

It's starting to become more clear, years ago I was taking 2 tsp of MSM crystals (along with vitamin C). The very first week I was picking up so much more thyroid hormone that I went off my thyroid meds for about a week. So it definitely cleared out/up my receptors. Then after about 12-15 months my veins became amazing. I had been a phlebotomists nightmare, at one point I had to have a picc line, but after a while on MSM my veins were treat. After a few years, and still suffering other health issues, I stopped the MSM. Just got tired of gagging down the bitter powder. Now I'm realizing that was a mistake. I'm back on the MSM/C and filling 000 capsules once a week so I don't have to gag it down. I'm glad to hear you like the MSM+MMST+C. I just need to get the MMST ordered ;-)
Tell me more about the glycine:methionine ratio please. I've been taking 1-2 teaspoons of glycine daily for about 4 months as per Dr Deitrich Klinghardt's detox protocol; glycine detoxifies glyphosate. He recommends 2 teaspoons for up to 6 months, then drop down to 1/4-1/2 teaspoon for life. I haven't been taking gelatin, but I do have a bag of nice grass fed beef gelatin in the cupboard.


This one one impressive study I read today: ughhh, thought I left the tab open, but I guess I didn't.

I think I need to get some of Haidut's magnoil :): Pretty sure I'm very low.
They sell it on iHerb and on Amazon.

The ratio was mentioned by some on the forum. Another way is to get a 3-4:1 glycine:methionine ratio. Gelatin is used to meet the ratio or it combined with fattier cuts of red meat.
 

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,520
I don't have a confirmed EDS diagnosis, yet, but OMG, I fit all the symptoms - along with all of the thiamine deficiency symptoms. I will look into the other things you've listed. (I do have several auto-immune issues and confirmed Lyme with co's.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe thiamine supplementation will increase acetylcholine?
Not sure.
 

drk

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
224
what about simpler forms of silicon, like bamboo or horsetail silicon. They are cheaper. Do they work just the same?
 

revenant

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
170
what about simpler forms of silicon, like bamboo or horsetail silicon. They are cheaper. Do they work just the same?

They are not really absorbed properly.

Btw beer is one of the most bioavailable sources of orthosilicic acid. Not sure whether these supplements are all that useful if you ever drink beer, unless this Regenemax product really does have an advantage over the others.

According to one study, beer contains a little less than 20 mg of silicon per liter on average, regardless of the type or geographic origin of the beer (link). The actual amount varies between 9 and 39 mg per liter.

About 80% of the silicon is in the form of orthosilicic acid, which is the bioavailable form. The absorption of silicon from beer is 55%. This means that a can of beer (330 mL) contains, on average, about 7 mg of silicon. Of this, about 5.6 mg is orthosilicic acid, about 3.5 mg of which is absorbed.

BioSil, JarroSil & Beer – Silicon Experiment Conclusion
 

Momentum

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
150
I don't know. Perhaps absorption is lower with plant based sources, but even at a higher dose its cheaper and the reviews are overall quite positive. see this link Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Swanson Bamboo Extract for Hair and Nails Silica Supplement Supports Collagen 300 mg 60 Veggie Capsules
@drk I've been using the Swanson, more for chelating, but it hasn't helped really with anything. Maybe for those who just need a tad more help it does. I did purchase the Orgono product and started it three days ago. I really like that it is totally clean - silica and water (trying to move to liquids without fillers or excipiants, or very clean supplements). Plus look at the comparison of bio-availability. I'd have to take a lot more Swanson's for equivalency and that's a lot of extra stuff I don't want. Product but thanks for posting!
 

drk

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
224
@drk I've been using the Swanson, more for chelating, but it hasn't helped really with anything. Maybe for those who just need a tad more help it does. I did purchase the Orgono product and started it three days ago. I really like that it is totally clean - silica and water (trying to move to liquids without fillers or excipiants, or very clean supplements). Plus look at the comparison of bio-availability. I'd have to take a lot more Swanson's for equivalency and that's a lot of extra stuff I don't want. Product but thanks for posting!

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts on this
 

baccheion

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
1,819
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
miquelangeles How to avoid depressive symptoms when eating choline rich foods? Ask For Help or Advice 19
Frankdee20 Taurine and Choline for Cholesterol ? Cholesterol 3
M A Choline-rich Diet (and Glycine) Improves Survival In A Rat Model Of Endotoxin Shock Scientific Studies 0
S Choline, Fatty Liver Blood Work, Labs 2
ddjd Can Taurine Deplete Choline Levels? Ask For Help or Advice 2
_lppaiva Fructose Exacerbates Hepatocellular Injury In Methionine-Choline Deficient Diets Scientific Studies 16
Amazoniac Would You Be Interested In A Choline Supplement? Vitamins 41
shine Choline Supplementation Alleviates Fluoride-induced Testicular Toxicity By Restoring The NGF And MEK Scientific Studies 1
Lokzo Choline Associated Hypersexuality In A 79-year-old Man Scientific Studies 20
T What's Wrong With Choline? Ask For Help or Advice 10
C Anyone Know How To Lower Choline Levels? Symptoms, Causes 10
lvysaur Choline Lowers Homocysteine Levels, But Only In Folate/B12 Deficient People Scientific Studies 3
lvysaur Homocysteine And Choline-related Genes And/or SNPs? Health 3
Amazoniac Incomprehensive/ble Notes On Choline Vitamins 114
ddjd Choline, Estrogen And Pregnancy. What Would Ray Say? Ask For Help or Advice 3
ddjd CDP Choline - Huge Cognitive Benefits Ask For Help or Advice 9
S Stacking Choline Bitartrate With Salt Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 2
R Can Choline Deficiency Actually Increase Cholinergic Activity? Articles & Scientific Studies 2
Zpol Methanogen Bacteria Responsible For Risk Of CVD Assoc. PC (choline, TMAO) Scientific Studies 19
prider90 Choline Based Supps For Anxiety? Mental Issues 1
ecstatichamster Antihistamines - Block Choline, Stop Working, SSRI-like, Anhedonia? Pharmaceutical Drugs 10
haidut Supplementary Choline Raises Risk Of Blood Clots; Aspirin To The Rescue Scientific Studies 52
P Dietary Choline Vitamins 7
Luann Not Low Carb, But Lack Of Choline And Methionine, Cause Keto Success Discussing Dietary Models 14
K Taking Alpha GPC/Choline Without Spreading Out The Dose? Supplements 8
Westside PUFAs Study Finds Choline Promotes Cardiovascular Disease Articles & Scientific Studies 11
C Choline, Folate Vs Folic Acid Macros & Micros 27
F How much choline are you getting in your diet? Polls 4
T Orthosilicic Acid Removes Aluminum From The Brains, Prevents Alzheimer's? Minerals 39

Similar threads

Top