Non Diabetic Reactive Hypoglycemia

[I'm.No.One]

@aliml brings out a good aspect of blood sugar control with regards to GLP-1 and incretins.

I'll share with you a post I made with regards to DPP4 enzymes that has to do with why blood sugar drops so quickly after a meal.

I hope it will give you a new angle to explore and help you out of your current bind:

Post in thread 'Using The Glucose Tolerance Test To Prove Fructose Intake Is Safe For Diabetics' Using The Glucose Tolerance Test To Prove Fructose Intake Is Safe For Diabetics

I do think this is worth exploring as I noticed anything that would naturally improve digestion such as vinegar/ginger/lemon has been directly correlated to the little burps I began getting.

It's definitely something I'm going to dig into, also my husband thinks it'll be hilarious if beans end up being what fixes me. I will say I did eat them 2-3 times a week prior to coming across Ray's work.

 

[chompie]

Have you had fasting insulin pulled?

And along with the blood sugar drops, are you having blood pressure follow?

 

[I'm.No.One]

I have a host of issues and one of them is reactive hypoglycemia. I’m not too good with all the technicals you are all discussing. However, I have been seeing a functional medicine doctor who’s been treating me for this (along with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, digestive issues, peripheral neuropathy, and a host of food sensitivities). He says you get it it from eating junk, not eating enough, or not eating frequently enough.

Yeah most Drs, even functional, will say it's a "lifestyle disease" which I have no doubt is the case many times.

For me however I'm well past the under eating stage & certainly don't eat junk food.

I have historically skipped meals. His recommendation has been to eat every 2 to 3 hours. And because I was initially on a low-carb diet to deal with SIBO, I actually found that I had to eat every hour practically. He's explained that if you have reactive hypoglycemia, since your body is always trying to reach balance, after you eat, your blood sugar spikes, then drops.

There are multiple types of reactive hypoglycemia (depending on how/when your glucose levels drop) & from the probably too much research I've been doing the type you're describing is typically a precursor to type 2 diabetes/losing sensitivity to insulin.

So for that it would make sense that cutting out junk/ keeping blood sugar stable with constant eating would make sense.

For me when I eat, sometimes literally while I'm eating, my blood sugar just drops. There is no spike at all.

Then very, very,very slowly climbs into a low 90s range.

I have actually found, in my case, that eating 3 larger meals has been better that many small ones/snacks. This is probably because my body has time to stabilize between the drops versus every time I eat I'm bottoming out again.

He has also recommended some supplements to keep my blood sugar steady (taken with meals and between meals). I did find initially that eating protein or fiber first thing in the morning was challenging, as my body did not have enough blood sugar to process them. As time has passed and I’ve tried to stay mindful of eating regularly, things have improved. In my case, there’s also been a liver/gallbladder issue and my body does not seem to produce enough hydrochloric acid, which is esp important for digesting proteins.

I think I'm on the opposite spectrum where, as a previous poster shared, my gallbladder is over producing bile.

This makes a lot of sense for me because the amount I go to the bathroom in the day effortlessly & lack of real digestive issues.

Although it's clearly a problem if I'm by proxy repressing my bodies ability to, ya know, say "hey we've got enough insulin for this meal, thanks!"

PS. First time poster, apologize for any oddities

PS. I'm odd in general, so I didn't notice any oddities if they were there. Haha.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Have you had fasting insulin pulled?

And along with the blood sugar drops, are you having blood pressure follow?

Fasting came back high, my C peptides were 6.9 with the fasting pull . But my average glucose was 90.

My blood pressure is fine outside of the sudden drops, then I can for sure feel it rise as my heart races. Although, that's not been as bad since I began the vitamin B's.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Just chiming back in with an odd update.

Doing anything to help my liver store glucose better (in case that was/is a factor) helps but harms at the same time.

So, while my crashes are less this is now what happens:

Wake up with SKY HIGH fasting glucose, this morning was 126 which classifies as diabetic.

(The last week it's been 114-18 today was the first 126)

Then after I eat instead of dropping to/below 90 it's in the 110-114 levels, so where it should be.

However now when I do get drops from eating it's shifting to later in the afternoon versus in the morning after I eat.

Currently I'm using low dose famotidine (10 mg split morning/night) & this is when the much higher morning blood sugar started.

Yes I'll stop to see if that will lower my fasting levels but I'm curious about the action behind this. Why would something that's meant to help our liver store glucose cause high blood sugar in someone? Especially when it's known to lower blood sugar?

Seems like the cause may be pointing to the underlying issue I'm digging for.

Anyhow, that's now a thing.

 

[LucH]

A possible lead: Bad communication
The liver continues to supply the body with glucose because the muscles are in demand. Insulin should normally act on the liver, telling it to suppress endogenous HGP production (hepatic glucose production). The liver continues to release glucose into the bloodstream. Additionally aberrantly high levels of glucagon may still be secreted. So there are mixed messages. If you combine this with a lesser storage of muscle glycogen, which is quite common, it is not surprising to have problems managing blood sugar.
Hope it'll help.

 

[joaquin]

What has helped me when I used to get low blood sugar is a tablespoon of glycine. It really helps me to not have those blood sugar drops.

I was also carnivore for a couple of years and while doing carnivore I don't recall ever having an issue with low blood sugar. I would go back to being carnivore but I just love apples too much. I usually eat three or four a day.

 

[I'm.No.One]

What has helped me when I used to get low blood sugar is a tablespoon of glycine. It really helps me to not have those blood sugar drops.

I was also carnivore for a couple of years and while doing carnivore I don't recall ever having an issue with low blood sugar. I would go back to being carnivore but I just love apples too much. I usually eat three or four a day.

Unfortunately for me the low blood sugar is from an overproduction of insulin in a response to whenever I eat.

It's really odd to get low blood sugar from the act of eating.

 

[I'm.No.One]

A possible lead: Bad communication
The liver continues to supply the body with glucose because the muscles are in demand. Insulin should normally act on the liver, telling it to suppress endogenous HGP production (hepatic glucose production). The liver continues to release glucose into the bloodstream. Additionally aberrantly high levels of glucagon may still be secreted. So there are mixed messages. If you combine this with a lesser storage of muscle glycogen, which is quite common, it is not surprising to have problems managing blood sugar.
Hope it'll help.

Thanks for this, now how to fix the communication issues.

I had hopes the pepcid would a.)help glucose storage b.) slightly slow down potential over production of bile so potentially repressed glucagon could regulate my blood sugar from dropping in response to the over production of insulin.

I don't know, I'm kinda getting to the point of all of this where I'm so unwell I'm not able to figure it out. Which, for me, is a huge statement.

 

[yerrag]

It may help if you can separate myth from fact about insulin.

Most of the medical establishment subscribe to myths.

 

[qminati]

have you tried eating more sucrose after your blood sugar drops? Ray Peat always talks about how food will make your adrenaline go down and reveal your thyroid health. Adrenaline goes down when you eat. Is it possible that the drop in blood sugar is just a drop in adrenaline revealing your low blood sugar from the thyroid?

It used to happen to me all the time after eating that I felt horrible and just kept eating more carbs till I felt better. My nutrition coach at the time taught me that. He told me to have more sugar, He taught me that sugar and salt are anti-stress all day every day. Almost any stress is cured with sugar. I thought he was crazy but i humored him and couldn't believe that it worked. For a while, every time I woke up at night and drank orange juice, I would start feeling horrible after 5 minutes with hypoglycemic symptoms but by just waiting a little longer my thyroid kicked in and warmed me right up. I never was able to check my blood sugar in those days but I always thought how amazing it was that the answer to feeling bad after a meal was to eat more carbs. The fact that Ray Peat explained this exact process and having experienced it is what made me believe in him.

This is why fresh squeezed orange juice is king, the potassium ensures it gets in your cells, as a hypoglycemic OJ is what fixed me

 

[I'm.No.One]

have you tried eating more sucrose after your blood sugar drops? Ray Peat always talks about how food will make your adrenaline go down and reveal your thyroid health. Adrenaline goes down when you eat. Is it possible that the drop in blood sugar is just a drop in adrenaline revealing your low blood sugar from the thyroid?

It used to happen to me all the time after eating that I felt horrible and just kept eating more carbs till I felt better. My nutrition coach at the time taught me that. He told me to have more sugar, He taught me that sugar and salt are anti-stress all day every day. Almost any stress is cured with sugar. I thought he was crazy but i humored him and couldn't believe that it worked. For a while, every time I woke up at night and drank orange juice, I would start feeling horrible after 5 minutes with hypoglycemic symptoms but by just waiting a little longer my thyroid kicked in and warmed me right up. I never was able to check my blood sugar in those days but I always thought how amazing it was that the answer to feeling bad after a meal was to eat more carbs. The fact that Ray Peat explained this exact process and having experienced it is what made me believe in him.

This is why fresh squeezed orange juice is king, the potassium ensures it gets in your cells, as a hypoglycemic OJ is what fixed me

I suppose it's possible but to be honest I never once had this issue until 1.5ish years of eating pro-metabolic.

Then it slammed me like a ton of bricks.

I for sure have no choice but to pound sugar after I have a drop from eating, but that feels like more of a bandaid than fixing anything.

 

[I'm.No.One]

It may help if you can separate myth from fact about insulin.

Most of the medical establishment subscribe to myths.

I understand a lot of what the medical system believes is false, this unfortunately had more to do with hyperglycemia & type 2 diabetes.

It's really hard to find any information on reactive hypoglycemia that's not linked to insulin use unfortunately.

 

[youngsinatra]

Ever tested your copper status?

Copper deficiency causes severe glucose intolerance, blood sogar issues and also causes the inability to fast (because of it‘s role in betaoxidation + adrenaline synthesis)

 

[qminati]

I suppose it's possible but to be honest I never once had this issue until 1.5ish years of eating pro-metabolic.

Then it slammed me like a ton of bricks.

I for sure have no choice but to pound sugar after I have a drop from eating, but that feels like more of a bandaid than fixing anything.

well for me it was an actual cure because of the healing properties of sucrose. My hypoglycemia is mostly cured, my glycogen has been restored and my temps are now at 98.2 average from 96.5 just las year. But I understand your frustration believe me. It took me 2 years to figure out my issues, Just don't give up and keep an open mind. Hypoglycemic stress is no joke, good luck.

 

[I'm.No.One]

well for me it was an actual cure because of the healing properties of sucrose. My hypoglycemia is mostly cured, my glycogen has been restored and my temps are now at 98.2 average from 96.5 just las year. But I understand your frustration believe me. It took me 2 years to figure out my issues, Just don't give up and keep an open mind. Hypoglycemic stress is no joke, good luck.

For sure, it's just that hypoglycemia is not the same as reactive hypoglycemia.

So basically you had the inability to store glucose well so your levels were always low.

For me when I eat it's triggering an over production of insulin that tanks my blood sugar.

It's weird.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Ever tested your copper status?

Copper deficiency causes severe glucose intolerance, blood sogar issues and also causes the inability to fast (because of it‘s role in betaoxidation + adrenaline synthesis)

I did an HTMA test a year or so back, due to dang oyster max it was on the lower end because the zinc was crazy high.

I do eat a fair amount of copper rich foods on a daily basis though.

I'll go do some digging & see if there's anything linked to reactivate hypoglycemia + copper deficiency.

 

[youngsinatra]

I did an HTMA test a year or so back, due to dang oyster max it was on the lower end because the zinc was crazy high.

I do eat a fair amount of copper rich foods on a daily basis though.

I'll go do some digging & see if there's anything linked to reactivate hypoglycemia + copper deficiency.

Do you eat a lot of zinc on a daily basis? (red meat/oyster)

Overall concentration of copper in our foods is much lower these days. (I‘ve seen papers talking about a ~77% reduction in copper)

 

[I'm.No.One]

Do you eat a lot of zinc on a daily basis? (red meat/oyster)

Overall concentration of copper in our foods is much lower these days. (I‘ve seen papers talking about a ~77% reduction in copper)

Red meat yes, can't eat oysters anymore (any mollusks actually)they make my kidneys ache.

I do consume a lot of raw goats milk & home made chocolate milk from non alkalized cocoa.

Both are still pretty high in copper.

 

[Dolomite]

My average glucose level is 90, but my C peptides are through the roof. The Dr said "woah" when she saw the low glucose but C peptides high.

I am reading Mastering Diabetes by Cyrus Khambatta and Robby Barbaro and on page 189 in reference to C-peptide Blood Test they write: "If your fasting C-peptide value exceeds 4.0, this can indicate that the beta cells in your pancreas are working in overdrive to secrete excess insulin in response to a high degree of insulin resistance, and that increasing your insulin sensitivity can prevent against beta cell burnout."

I don't agree with everything they propose but basically, reducing your total fat intake will help reverse the insulin resistance. There are a lot of podcasts by the authors.