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High Fasting Blood Sugar Levels - "pre-diabetes" Levels

Discussion in 'Health' started by aquaman, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    I've tested my fasting blood sugar at home a few times in the last week, and the results have all been over 100mg - up to 111mg/dl (6.2 mmol).

    This would put me in "pre-diabetes" range.

    I've got old blood glucose readings done through a doctor about 3 months into Peating when I was at 90, and pre-peating I was at 86.

    So obviously this is worrying.

    Any advice?
     
  2. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Eat more fructose and less glucose and the blood sugar levels may drop. Also, high fasting blood sugar is often indicative of high cortisol. Do you have trouble losing weight or history of fat buildup around the abdomen?
     
  3. OP
    aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    I try to stick away from glucose.

    Yes, that's where I hold my fat.

    Pre-peat I had a 4-pack (around 10-12% bodyfat, noticeable abs). Now I have a one pack at around 21% bodyfat :)

    Obviously I've not been hit by the VoS MIRACLE yet ;)
     
  4. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think the gaining of weight on Peat after years on "normal" diet is to be expected initially. Most people have serious insulin resistant issues from years of burning PUFA as fuel. The liver is fatty or overburdened with estrogen, and cortisol is high due to not consuming AND oxidizing enough quality sugar like fruit. So, after starting to load up on sugar the cortisol goes down to "normal" from being quite elevated and insulin kicks in, storing much of the unprocessed sugar as fat. Until the HPA axis is normalized, which can take months, and liver function is restored I'd try to limit things that raise insulin. This means absolutely NO starch, lots of fruit, and moderate sugar intake. Alternatively, every time you get a big sugar load in your body I'd make sure to take at least 300mg thiamine and maybe some caffeine to make sure the sugar is oxidized and not stored.
     
  5. nikotrope

    nikotrope Member

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    What is a big sugar load? 100g of carbs in one sitting? more or less?
     
  6. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I'm going to try this because nothing else has worked. In the past, I have lowered starch and then no starch for a shorter time, but this time I will go longer with it before I give up, because i am in a worse weight and health situation. And keep up with the other supplements to help my fatty liver.

    I'm glad the weight gain stopped, but as far as losing any of the 30+ pounds, it's not happening no matter what I do.

    I am not diabetic, but have pcos and am on metformin, which I'd like to be able to stop (it doesn't seem to do anything anymore) Most of my fat is in abdomen.
     
  7. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think 100g of sugar in one sitting is probably too much for most people, and will likely raise insulin to the point of causing a blood sugar crash and thus release of cortisol and adrenalin. Also, 100g of carbs as starch is certainly too much and will raise insulin a LOT. It also depends on how much protein a person eats. If you keep protein to 25g-30g per sitting (75g-90g per day as Peat says), which is optimal for muscle synthesis, then you'll probably be fine with a sugar intake of 50g-60g for that meal, so that you process the protein without triggering the stress hormones. And by sugar I mean plain sugar sold in packets in grocery stores. I try to stick to 1:2 ratio of protein to sugar. I also try to eat ripe fruit to taste, which gives additional carbs but does not raise insulin nearly as much as plain sugar. So, overall I probably end up eating protein:carb in a 1:3 ratio and my carbs are mostly from sugar and fruit. The reason fruit does not raise insulin so much is probably due to the fact that fruit contains potassium and some protein that keep the blood sugar levels stable. White sugar raises insulin more than fruit does (on average) but much less than starch. For more info, search Ray's website for "insulin potassium sugar".
     
  8. nikotrope

    nikotrope Member

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    I'm like you, the weight gain stopped, my temperature and pulse are fine, most of my problems are gone and it's even better since I began caffeine but my weight won't budge (except with a calorie deficit but it will last only a few days before the calorie deficit has no effect, so it's probably not really weight loss). My main fat deposit is the abdomen, but I have fat everywhere so is it really cortisol, I don't know!
     
  9. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Would you say high blood glucose at fasting is related to low energy stores? Low energy stores (fat or glucose) means at fasting, stress will be higher. In my own view, it would give a major reason to make sure one gets enough stores, even if means some fatty acids, otherwise that means you're getting high cortisol every day (like, when you wake up).
     
  10. Henry

    Henry Member

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    If you have normal fasting blood glucose on the normal diet that significantly increases on Peat as described above then its the opposite, that is that the Peat diet made you insulin resistant. High blood sugar = Sugar not utilized by cells, just like high cholesterol.
     
  11. haidut

    haidut Member

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    We don't know that the high sugar diet made them insulin resistant. When you are adapted to burn fat, your blood sugar is relatively low and you run mostly on fat and enough cortisol to supply the brain with sugar. It is the fat that makes people insulin resistant, not sugar. However, once you are insulin resistant you have serious problems utilizing sugar for fuel. See this article:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... rnate.html

    "...As the bears put on weight in preparation for the winter, they responded normally to insulin – which prevents the breakdown of fatty tissue. But during hibernation, insulin effectively stopped working. That is a symptom in people with type 2 diabetes, in which high fat levels in the blood induce insulin resistance."

    "...Diabetes and obesity may exist naturally on opposite ends of the metabolic spectrum," says co-author Kevin Corbit of biotechnology firm Amgen in Thousand Oaks, California. "The cellular mechanisms that could be protecting people from diabetes, and the mechanisms leading to diabetes in other patients, may also be what protects them from becoming obese. The results suggest there is a chemical pathway involved in altering sensitivity to insulin. This pathway could hold the key for developing treatments for type 2 diabetes."

    "Why do humans respond differently when they put on weight to these bears?" asks Gwyn Gould at the University of Glasgow, UK. "If we can identify that, we could produce therapies for diabetes.""

    So, the million dollar question is - what is that pathway? If you believe Peat and the studies he quotes as well as other studies on PubMed, stimulating pyruvate dehydrogenase (to burn sugar) and inhibiting lipolysis are among the two key pathways but there may be more we don't know about.
    Thus, insulin resistance (and perhaps pre-diabetes) is present in probably all people eating a "normal balanced diet" consisting of resistant starch and PUFA. Most people nowadays are adapted to run on fat and that is the reason virtually everybody puts on weight on a Peat diet. So, it is imperative to restore insulin sensitivity and in the hibernating bears this happened naturally during spring and summer refeeding periods. Whether it would happen that easily in people is debatable, but it certainly would not happen by continuing to burn fat. So, the skinny people you see running every day are probably MORE insulin resistant than the overweight Peatarians. If they start eating normally then they start gaining weight. Ask any former long distance runner or a person involved in any "endurance" sports.
    Now, just like I said in another thread - simply refeeding may not solve the issue for many people. As such, supplementation is likely necessary to make sure the sugar is being processed properly. I guess that is akin to taking drugs like metformin, but metformin in fact makes you burn more fat and likely makes the situation worse in the long run. That's why most people on metformin eventually need stronger drugs or even insulin. The small percentage of metformin takers who recovered and did not get diabetes type II probaby recovered naturally and metformin had nothing to do with it.
    In my experience, taking vitamin B1 and B2 helps with sugar oxidation. Caffeine helps too and it helps make the liver lean again. However, many people cannot handle caffeine well so it's hit or miss with that supplement.
    Finally, it seems that vitamin A deficiency may be one of the causes of insulin resistance for up to 50% of people with pre-diabetes. I posted another study on that so just search the forum posts from the last 2 weeks and you will find it. So taking vitamin A may resolve the issues for up to half of people with insulin resistance issues.
    Bottom line is that this is not an easy issue to solve. I am simply suggesting different things that have been shown to be involved in the development of insulin resistance. However, so far I have not seen any serious evidence that insulin resistance is caused by sugar. It is always fat, and even saturated fat seems to induce insulin resistance if fat burning continues for too long.
    I think it may be a good idea to start a thread on things that help with insulin resistance and glycogen storage. This theme has been recurrent on the forum for more than a year and it seems to affect a good portion of people coming to the Peat diet.
     
  12. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    Checking your FBG can be tricky. I would get a real lab test. You should only test after you've slept well, and have the blood drawn about two hours or more after you wake up, while having nothing at all, no liquid or food before the blood is drawn. At that point, if you had a snack before you went to bed, your fasting time should be around 10 hours, depending on how long you've slept. 12 hours would be better. If you are really concerned about diabetes, there're other tests to get, such as Hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c).

    I was having pre-diabetes symptoms. For me, cutting down on fat from cream has helped my blood sugar. I can not eat starch with fat at the same time because it wrecks havoc on my blood sugar. I get most of my calories from starch in the form of potatoes and rice, and fruit. Potatoes, rice, and bananas are cheap carbohydrate sources. I eat other types of fruit as well. Right now, cherimoyas are in season. I buy them by the case. For me, starch is not a problem now. But its important to understand that when I say starch, I'm talking about potatoes, and rice, with no oil or cream added to them. I'm not talking about bread, pasta, cookies, and cakes. This is an amazing feat for me because I was not happy about starch causing me problems in the past.

    Haidut said - "Bottom line is that this is not an easy issue to solve. I am simply suggesting different things that have been shown to be involved in the development of insulin resistance. However, so far I have not seen any serious evidence that insulin resistance is caused by sugar. It is always fat, and even saturated fat seems to induce insulin resistance if fat burning continues for too long."

    I agree. There's no question that pufa oils are a problem. But cream (cheese), which is a safa, not a pufa, has been one of the things that has caused insulin resistance for me. I still eat cheese, like a quality parm. reggiano, but I can only have very little, and I can only eat it by itself, and can not eat anything for an hour or so after I eat it. For me, it's the fat. I'm hoping that I'll be able to eat fat again once I lose all of the excess weight I have. I don't see how things would change in that regard, because if I eat a bowl of rice with melted butter when I'm lean, I don't see how it won't cause a blood sugar reaction. But, I'm always willing to experiment.

    Haidut - People on peatarian would highly disagree with "It is always fat, and even saturated fat seems to induce insulin resistance if fat burning continues for too long."

    I agree with you. Have you written about this anywhere else?
     
  13. nikotrope

    nikotrope Member

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    How did you feel in this state of blood sugar? Tired? Anxious? Hot?
     
  14. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    niko,

    About 15-20 minutes after eating such a meal, I would go into what is a blood sugar coma. Tired. But not tired in the sleepy sense, tired as in, I just have to lay down, and barely move, and wait for it to pass. It's hard to explain. It feels as though all limbs become extremely heavy. Anxious too, and cognitive confusion. I know that it is not just because of having some excess body fat because only 3 years ago when I was lean, I got the same exact reaction when I would eat a doughnut, which is starch, though refined starch, but lots of oil (fat), and sugar, in the doughnut. The same 15-20 minutes to induce, and 30 minutes to pass reaction would happen. This is typically known as a "crash" as described in mainstream literautre. I noticed that if I drink some strong coffee in that state, after it has already induced, that the coffee helps restore things to normal. I don't know if it is hypo or hyper, but either way the reactions were, are still are if I eat it, horrible.
     
  15. nikotrope

    nikotrope Member

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    One donut would not get me into that state. Even a hamburger with fries would not get me into that state anymore (probably did in the past though). But I get that sometimes with a very big meal. I will be more careful next time to see what could be the trigger but it's interesting that it's the fat that makes you like that.
     
  16. johns74

    johns74 Member

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    Are you sure it's the fat, as opposed to the other additives or ingredients? Have you eaten for example, just as an experiment, butter with table sugar?
     
  17. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    I'm sure. There are no additives or ingredients in potatoes and butter. I haven't tried that. But I don't think it would do anything because it would be a small amount.
     
  18. johns74

    johns74 Member

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    If you didn't have anything with it -such as a HFCS-sweetened drink- I think you're right.
     
  19. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I have not written on Peatarian.com as I find the site to be highly argumentative. I supposed there is some value in arguing about this, but my goal is not to argue - it is to find the truth for myself. I trust what read and experiment with more than anybody's argument, even Peat's. I will look at studies posted by other people but I find it very often that the person with a strong argument has some sort of vested interest to convince others that he/she is right. All studies I have seen say, and I have confirmed through my own blood tests, that lipogenesis from carbs is not a practical issue for most people. That seems to be true for me. However, carbs can and do become an issue for people with fatty livers. I have not answered for myself if it is best to just force through the fat burning period to get the liver lean and then refeed on proper carbs and moderate saturated fat, or if it is better to keep loading up on carbs (and block lipolysis) and hope the liver with get rid of the PUFA and excess fat through glucoronidation after several years like Peat suggests. Each method has its pros and cons and it will likely be a unique experience for each person. I think moderate fat burning is probably fine for most people. Even babies burn fat when they are born, but it is indeed saturated fat. I am not sure I agree fully with Peat that it takes 4 years to get rid of PUFA. The study on monkey I posted says all PUFA can be depleted with just 30 days of fat free meals. So, in the more realistic scenario of a person on this forum eating mostly saturated fat and some PUFA, it will probably take several months to a year but nowhere close to the 4 years Peat is quoting. If you have decent vitamin E stores, I don't see a need to block lipolysis completely by aspirin and niacinamide since the free fatty acids in the blood will get saturated and should pose less danger. There are tons of studies showing vitamin E fully prevents harmful lipid peroxidation due to exercise. Taurine has been shown to do the same. I have lost most of my extra weight I gained on Peat by stopping niacinamide and aspirin, avoiding PUFA whenever possible, keeping vitamin E levels close to the upper normal range in labs, keeping protein normal (80g-100g), and not really restricting sugar except making sure I consume no starch like bread, rice, potatoes, etc. It actually worked quite easily and it took about 3 months to drop the 30 extra pounds I had, and the only exercise I do is walk several miles a day at a slow pace and do pushups 3 times a week. Not exactly a hardcore exercise schedule.
    In terms of supplements, I am taking vitamin B1, B2, and B6 for mitochondrial health and sugar control. I also take my fat soluble vitamins K, A, D, E and I consume 8g-16g of Knox gelatin (2 Knox packets) with every meal as it has been shown to prevent weight gain on high sugar diet.
    This does not mean that my formula will work for everybody. But at least you can control hyperglycemia with thiamine and I will post a separate thread on that later today. If you can control hyperglycemia, then insulin resistance should not be an issue even according to the Peatarian people whom I have seen argue that repeated insulin spikes is what causes insulin resistance.
    I'd say keep doing what you feel works for you and there are any general guidelines those would be to avoid the PUFA, keep protein intake high (but make sure you get come gelatin with it), and try to consume most of your sugar as fruit. If know you have blood sugar issues, take thiamine 300mg with every meal. For some people the dosage may be higher and like I said I will post a separate thread on that later.
     
  20. jyb

    jyb Member

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    :idea:
    I don't feel well with potato and fat either. But I blame the potato. No problem with sat fats or with small amounts of sucrose/OJ. I'm not sure about other starches, as I almost never eat starch. Baked potato is something I have tried and I notice it's not helpful. A few slices of bread seem fine, though I rarely have that so can't tell for sure. Prior to Peating, I had already noticed I don't feel well eating things like fries. Fries have both potatoes and pufa, but my intuition is that potatoes are not good for me.
     
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