High Fasting Blood Sugar Levels - "pre-diabetes" Levels

[haidut]

I'm sure. There are no additives or ingredients in potatoes and butter. I haven't tried that. But I don't think it would do anything because it would be a small amount.

I don't feel well with potato and fat either. But I blame the potato. No problem with sat fats or with small amounts of sucrose/OJ. I'm not sure about other starches, as I almost never eat starch. Baked potato is just something I have tried and I notice it's not helpful.

For me, rice is what does me in but potato also causes problems due to a fast sugar spike and then crash. Like I said, it is different for everybody but some general guidelines apply - PUFA and large amounts of glucose are usually not handled well unless you are 12-year old.

 

[jyb]

For me, rice is what does me in but potato also causes problems due to a fast sugar spike and then crash. Like I said, it is different for everybody but some general guidelines apply - PUFA and large amounts of glucose are usually not handled well unless you are 12-year old.

That potato would be bad due to the glucose spike would be consistent with less problems with rice and bread, which might be digested more gradually. It's a shame because potato is I think more pure and has more nutrients. Shouldn't we be able handle the glucose fine with the potassium it has and the fat (butter) we might eat it with? It seems not, in my experience...

 

[haidut]

For me, rice is what does me in but potato also causes problems due to a fast sugar spike and then crash. Like I said, it is different for everybody but some general guidelines apply - PUFA and large amounts of glucose are usually not handled well unless you are 12-year old.

That potato would be bad due to the glucose spike would be consistent with less problems with rice and bread, which might be digested more gradually. It's a shame because potato is I think more pure and has more nutrients. Shouldn't we be able handle the glucose fine with the potassium it has and the fat (butter) we might eat it with? It seems not, in my experience...

Well, according to the medical profession potato causes just the reaction they want - due to the starch and potassium the glucose is quickly absorbed so you get low blood sugar. So, if you get this reaction when eating potato this is exactly what the doctor wants. Then you release cortisol and adrenalin to break down some muscle and fat to keep you going. So, if you eat mostly potato and starch, your blood glucose will not be consistently elevated but rather exhibit wild ups and downs. I think Ray is saying that higher but consistent blood sugar is actually much better for you than the ups and downs. That seems reasonable, but I guess the whole point is what level of blood glucose is optimal, and if elevated (but not diabetic) levels pose a threat. If you look at some studies from the 1960s and 1970s it seems like blood glucose in the range 100-120 is optimal. Kind like the cholesterol where Peat is saying levels of 200-230 are best and the medical profession recently agreed and up the range to 250. So, if you have a cholesterol under 250 now they are saying this is normal while a few years ago you'd be immediately put on some sort of statin. I wonder if we are about to see a change in the blood glucose levels as well as to what is normal.
If we assume stable blood glucose at a level under 100 is the way to go, I think a fructose:glucose mix of at least 60:40 ratio will achieve the same thing as the whole grains without feeding endotoxin and will likely make you feel more energized and with better glycogen stores. For people with insulin resistance, plain sugar may be a bit too insulinogenic so they are better off with fruit and juices like apple and grape given it's mostly fructose.

 

[thegiantess]

This is an amazing thread, so I'm just reviving it here. I struggle with the potato being bad due to too much insulin simply bc it has been such a staple for traditional people such as those that live in Peru/Chile/Andes. I recall reading that they get like 75% of their calories from potatoes and had fairly low glucose readings (around 65-70 IIRC). The key is likely that they are rural people who have never strayed from their traditional diets, never gotten themselves insulin resistant by doing fad diets, etc.

 

[thegiantess]

Would you say high blood glucose at fasting is related to low energy stores? Low energy stores (fat or glucose) means at fasting, stress will be higher. In my own view, it would give a major reason to make sure one gets enough stores, even if means some fatty acids, otherwise that means you're getting high cortisol every day (like, when you wake up).

I wonder this as well. Could it be that simple? You never got a reply last year. Any thoughts since then?

 

[jyb]

I wonder this as well. Could it be that simple? You never got a reply last year. Any thoughts since then?

I haven't really changed my mind about the implications of bedtime fasting... Avoiding severe stress like sudden hunger seems to me like a straightforward advice from RP's work, so I eat in such a way that I do not experience it. Healthy people are robust to such events, they have the flexibility to continue operating well even if they are late to a meal. It is not possible to eat while sleeping, so the implication I see is that one should be reasonably stable without a need for frequent energy shots.

 

[Texon]

I've tested my fasting blood sugar at home a few times in the last week, and the results have all been over 100mg - up to 111mg/dl (6.2 mmol).

This would put me in "pre-diabetes" range.

I've got old blood glucose readings done through a doctor about 3 months into Peating when I was at 90, and pre-peating I was at 86.



So obviously this is worrying.

Any advice?

American scullcap herb is a calming and safe nerve tonic that also lowers blood sugar. I used encapsulated form as a sleep aid for several years but ultimately had to stop because I would wake up in the middle of the night from a cortisol spike due to lowered blood sugar.

 

[Richiebogie]

@aquaman do you still have high fasting blood glucose? If so do you now think 110 is a desirable level?

If not what changes have you made that may have lowered it?

Were you eating high fruit or high processed sucrose before (back in February 2015)?

Also how many grams of protein, fat & carbs?

 

[Steve]

My last fasting blood glucose was 105 which has me worried a bit. I often eat white rice with meat for my lunch at work. Is that a problem? I thought the white rice was ok as long as it's combined with fat & protein (as far as blood sugar is concerned).

 

[stargazer1111]

Checking your FBG can be tricky. I would get a real lab test. You should only test after you've slept well, and have the blood drawn about two hours or more after you wake up, while having nothing at all, no liquid or food before the blood is drawn. At that point, if you had a snack before you went to bed, your fasting time should be around 10 hours, depending on how long you've slept. 12 hours would be better. If you are really concerned about diabetes, there're other tests to get, such as Hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c).

I was having pre-diabetes symptoms. For me, cutting down on fat from cream has helped my blood sugar. I can not eat starch with fat at the same time because it wrecks havoc on my blood sugar. I get most of my calories from starch in the form of potatoes and rice, and fruit. Potatoes, rice, and bananas are cheap carbohydrate sources. I eat other types of fruit as well. Right now, cherimoyas are in season. I buy them by the case. For me, starch is not a problem now. But its important to understand that when I say starch, I'm talking about potatoes, and rice, with no oil or cream added to them. I'm not talking about bread, pasta, cookies, and cakes. This is an amazing feat for me because I was not happy about starch causing me problems in the past.

Haidut said - "Bottom line is that this is not an easy issue to solve. I am simply suggesting different things that have been shown to be involved in the development of insulin resistance. However, so far I have not seen any serious evidence that insulin resistance is caused by sugar. It is always fat, and even saturated fat seems to induce insulin resistance if fat burning continues for too long."

I agree. There's no question that pufa oils are a problem. But cream (cheese), which is a safa, not a pufa, has been one of the things that has caused insulin resistance for me. I still eat cheese, like a quality parm. reggiano, but I can only have very little, and I can only eat it by itself, and can not eat anything for an hour or so after I eat it. For me, it's the fat. I'm hoping that I'll be able to eat fat again once I lose all of the excess weight I have. I don't see how things would change in that regard, because if I eat a bowl of rice with melted butter when I'm lean, I don't see how it won't cause a blood sugar reaction. But, I'm always willing to experiment.

Haidut - People on peatarian would highly disagree with "It is always fat, and even saturated fat seems to induce insulin resistance if fat burning continues for too long."

I agree with you. Have you written about this anywhere else?

The Randle Cycle (really it should be called the Randle Effect since it isn't a cycle) demonstrates this to be correct. They discovered this way back in the early 1960's.

It's the fat.

I have reactive hypoglycemia when I eat most starch. As long as the fat is kept low, sugar never causes reactive hypoglycemia. However, too much fat in a meal causes the same problem whether I'm eating starch or sugar. I suspect this is because the fat is interfering with insulin's function, forcing the pancreas to produce too much.

 

[ddjd]

The reason fruit does not raise insulin so much is probably due to the fact that fruit contains potassium and some protein that keep the blood sugar levels stable. White sugar raises insulin more than fruit does (on average) but much less than starch.

what if one were to eat a starch which is also very high in potassium, would that offset the insulin response?

 

[Hans]

what if one were to eat a starch which is also very high in potassium, would that offset the insulin response?

Such as potatoes? You'll still get a major insulin spike. Potatoes' GI is >70, whereas sweet potato is >40. It depends on what food you eat.

 

[Hgreen56]

I think the gaining of weight on Peat after years on "normal" diet is to be expected initially. Most people have serious insulin resistant issues from years of burning PUFA as fuel. The liver is fatty or overburdened with estrogen, and cortisol is high due to not consuming AND oxidizing enough quality sugar like fruit. So, after starting to load up on sugar the cortisol goes down to "normal" from being quite elevated and insulin kicks in, storing much of the unprocessed sugar as fat. Until the HPA axis is normalized, which can take months, and liver function is restored I'd try to limit things that raise insulin. This means absolutely NO starch, lots of fruit, and moderate sugar intake. Alternatively, every time you get a big sugar load in your body I'd make sure to take at least 300mg thiamine and maybe some caffeine to make sure the sugar is oxidized and not stored.

couple questions:
1) What is the max dose thiamine & caffeine that people can take a day? (upper safe limits)
2) Are thiamine & caffeine only 2 thats helps oxidize sugar?
3) Does high dose thiamine deplete anything else?
4) has thiamine hcl more benifits than just thiamine?

 

[Vileplume]

My last fasting blood glucose was 105 which has me worried a bit. I often eat white rice with meat for my lunch at work. Is that a problem? I thought the white rice was ok as long as it's combined with fat & protein (as far as blood sugar is concerned).

Hey Steve,
I see you're still around on the forum! How is your fasting blood glucose these days? Any improvements since 2017? :)

 

[RealNeat]

I have not written on Peatarian.com as I find the site to be highly argumentative. I supposed there is some value in arguing about this, but my goal is not to argue - it is to find the truth for myself. I trust what read and experiment with more than anybody's argument, even Peat's. I will look at studies posted by other people but I find it very often that the person with a strong argument has some sort of vested interest to convince others that he/she is right. All studies I have seen say, and I have confirmed through my own blood tests, that lipogenesis from carbs is not a practical issue for most people. That seems to be true for me. However, carbs can and do become an issue for people with fatty livers. I have not answered for myself if it is best to just force through the fat burning period to get the liver lean and then refeed on proper carbs and moderate saturated fat, or if it is better to keep loading up on carbs (and block lipolysis) and hope the liver with get rid of the PUFA and excess fat through glucoronidation after several years like Peat suggests. Each method has its pros and cons and it will likely be a unique experience for each person. I think moderate fat burning is probably fine for most people. Even babies burn fat when they are born, but it is indeed saturated fat. I am not sure I agree fully with Peat that it takes 4 years to get rid of PUFA. The study on monkey I posted says all PUFA can be depleted with just 30 days of fat free meals. So, in the more realistic scenario of a person on this forum eating mostly saturated fat and some PUFA, it will probably take several months to a year but nowhere close to the 4 years Peat is quoting. If you have decent vitamin E stores, I don't see a need to block lipolysis completely by aspirin and niacinamide since the free fatty acids in the blood will get saturated and should pose less danger. There are tons of studies showing vitamin E fully prevents harmful lipid peroxidation due to exercise. Taurine has been shown to do the same. I have lost most of my extra weight I gained on Peat by stopping niacinamide and aspirin, avoiding PUFA whenever possible, keeping vitamin E levels close to the upper normal range in labs, keeping protein normal (80g-100g), and not really restricting sugar except making sure I consume no starch like bread, rice, potatoes, etc. It actually worked quite easily and it took about 3 months to drop the 30 extra pounds I had, and the only exercise I do is walk several miles a day at a slow pace and do pushups 3 times a week. Not exactly a hardcore exercise schedule.
In terms of supplements, I am taking vitamin B1, B2, and B6 for mitochondrial health and sugar control. I also take my fat soluble vitamins K, A, D, E and I consume 8g-16g of Knox gelatin (2 Knox packets) with every meal as it has been shown to prevent weight gain on high sugar diet.
This does not mean that my formula will work for everybody. But at least you can control hyperglycemia with thiamine and I will post a separate thread on that later today. If you can control hyperglycemia, then insulin resistance should not be an issue even according to the Peatarian people whom I have seen argue that repeated insulin spikes is what causes insulin resistance.
I'd say keep doing what you feel works for you and there are any general guidelines those would be to avoid the PUFA, keep protein intake high (but make sure you get come gelatin with it), and try to consume most of your sugar as fruit. If know you have blood sugar issues, take thiamine 300mg with every meal. For some people the dosage may be higher and like I said I will post a separate thread on that later.

Do you still follow a similar diet? Did you successfully keep the weight off and have good BS control?