Nature.com article- more proof of shedding!!

Regina

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Vileplume

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Thanks Peatness.

I only had time to read this one so far, but it was extremely useful since it compiled data about shedding from 100 publications. It says it defined shedding as "the dissemination of a gene therapy vector in any form into the environment." However, if I understand the terminology correctly, only the J&J COVID vaccine uses a spike protein vector.

So, does that mean that this review doesn't apply to mRNA vaccines?

Regardless, it seems like the conclusions demonstrate that vector shedding does occur, especially in the few days right after vaccine administration--but some vector shedding was evident months after.


Some interesting quotations from the Shedding Data section:

(about Replication-deficient adenoviral vectors shedding)
In general, shedding in blood was short lasting, peaking during the first hours and disappearing a few days after administration. In one of these studies, vector sequences were found in urine from the majority of treated patients up to day 32 after injection of the vector in prostate tumour cells [43]. The longest duration of shedding was reported in publications on the treatment of cystic fibrosis via inhalation [28] or of lung cancer using intrabronchial [38] or intratumoral administration [68]. After a single treatment, nasopharyngeal fluids like bronchoalveolar lavage, nasal and pharyngeal swabs and saliva were reported to be positive for vector sequences up to 21 [28], 30 [68] and even 90 days [38]. Two publications reported on the analysis of semen from 12 patients with angina pectoris 8 weeks after intracoronary administration [37] and from one patient with prostate cancer at day 14 after injection in a prostate tumour [43], respectively. The latter patient appeared to be positive for the vector based on PCR analysis. (p. 915)

(about CRAd vectors shedding)
The duration of shedding in blood ranged from a few hours to 76 days after administration. In two publications shedding results pointed to viral replication, demonstrated by a second peak of circulating viral genome [77,80]. In two publications it was studied if the presence of vector DNA in blood could be linked to shedding of infectious viral particles. No infectious viral particles were demonstrated [78,79]. In contrast, shedding of infectious vector particles was demonstrated in urine up to day 8 after vector injection in a prostate tumour [77].

(about AAV vectors shedding)
Shedding in blood was rarely observed [88]. In the other two publications, the outcome of two clinical trials on gene therapy for haemophilia B was described. Intramuscular administration resulted in shedding of the AAV vector as measured by PCR in saliva and serum up to 24 and 48 h after injection, respectively, and no vector was observed in semen obtained after about 2 months [90]. When patients were treated with the same vector by infusion through the hepatic artery, dose-dependent shedding in urine was found during the first post-treatment week [91]. In 6 out of these 7 treated patients, vector DNA was found in semen up to 16 weeks after therapy. In one patient the vector was present in the seminal fluid and not in motile sperm [91].


From the Discussion:

It is important to note that in general positive shedding data are reported for only a part of the patients tested. In addition, shedding is often short lasting and is observed during the first 1 or 2 days after vector administration.

The potential impact of being exposed to an intact and infectious viral vector shed from an individual treated by gene therapy depends on the capacity of the vector to replicate and integrate as well as on the therapeutic transgene. For instance, the environmental threat imposed by shedding of a replication-deficient vector coding for a suicide gene, which has no effect in the absence of a prodrug, will be far less compared to shedding of a replication-competent vector coding for a cytotoxic gene.


I also want to loop @tankasnowgod in here to hear his thoughts on this.
 
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ddjd

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Thanks Peatness.

I only had time to read this one so far, but it was extremely useful since it compiled data about shedding from 100 publications. It says it defined shedding as "the dissemination of a gene therapy vector in any form into the environment." However, if I understand the terminology correctly, only the J&J COVID vaccine uses a spike protein vector.

So, does that mean that this review doesn't apply to mRNA vaccines?

Regardless, it seems like the conclusions demonstrate that vector shedding does occur, especially in the few days right after vaccine administration--but some vector shedding was evident months after.


Some interesting quotations from the Shedding Data section:

(about Replication-deficient adenoviral vectors shedding)
In general, shedding in blood was short lasting, peaking during the first hours and disappearing a few days after administration. In one of these studies, vector sequences were found in urine from the majority of treated patients up to day 32 after injection of the vector in prostate tumour cells [43]. The longest duration of shedding was reported in publications on the treatment of cystic fibrosis via inhalation [28] or of lung cancer using intrabronchial [38] or intratumoral administration [68]. After a single treatment, nasopharyngeal fluids like bronchoalveolar lavage, nasal and pharyngeal swabs and saliva were reported to be positive for vector sequences up to 21 [28], 30 [68] and even 90 days [38]. Two publications reported on the analysis of semen from 12 patients with angina pectoris 8 weeks after intracoronary administration [37] and from one patient with prostate cancer at day 14 after injection in a prostate tumour [43], respectively. The latter patient appeared to be positive for the vector based on PCR analysis. (p. 915)

(about CRAd vectors shedding)
The duration of shedding in blood ranged from a few hours to 76 days after administration. In two publications shedding results pointed to viral replication, demonstrated by a second peak of circulating viral genome [77,80]. In two publications it was studied if the presence of vector DNA in blood could be linked to shedding of infectious viral particles. No infectious viral particles were demonstrated [78,79]. In contrast, shedding of infectious vector particles was demonstrated in urine up to day 8 after vector injection in a prostate tumour [77].

(about AAV vectors shedding)
Shedding in blood was rarely observed [88]. In the other two publications, the outcome of two clinical trials on gene therapy for haemophilia B was described. Intramuscular administration resulted in shedding of the AAV vector as measured by PCR in saliva and serum up to 24 and 48 h after injection, respectively, and no vector was observed in semen obtained after about 2 months [90]. When patients were treated with the same vector by infusion through the hepatic artery, dose-dependent shedding in urine was found during the first post-treatment week [91]. In 6 out of these 7 treated patients, vector DNA was found in semen up to 16 weeks after therapy. In one patient the vector was present in the seminal fluid and not in motile sperm [91].


From the Discussion:

It is important to note that in general positive shedding data are reported for only a part of the patients tested. In addition, shedding is often short lasting and is observed during the first 1 or 2 days after vector administration.

The potential impact of being exposed to an intact and infectious viral vector shed from an individual treated by gene therapy depends on the capacity of the vector to replicate and integrate as well as on the therapeutic transgene. For instance, the environmental threat imposed by shedding of a replication-deficient vector coding for a suicide gene, which has no effect in the absence of a prodrug, will be far less compared to shedding of a replication-competent vector coding for a cytotoxic gene.


I also want to loop @tankasnowgod in here to hear his thoughts on this.
Does anyone know if the novavax vaccine has a similar shedding potential??
 
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Peatness

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Thank you.
In the "About" section on his site, one of the headings is the role of psychiatry in the holocaust.
Phew. This guy is important.
I hadn't heard of him until yesterday. His work is pretty impressive

 
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Peatness

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@Vileplume mRNA instructs the body to make spike protein.

I think shedding varies from person to person. I was around someone who was injected a year ago and I was not quite right afterwards. This is purely subjective and not scientific.

@ddjd I've not seen any data about novavax shedding.
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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@Vileplume mRNA instructs the body to make spike protein.
Ok so theoretically without the mRNA element novavax might be safer.

My partner has had the 2 doses novavax ffs

Tbh though I barely trust them on the ingredients.

I need to check if the novavax has any "trade secret" top secret ingredients like the Pfizer one.
 
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Peatness

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Ok so theoretically without the mRNA element novavax might be safer.

My partner has had the 2 doses novavax ffs

Tbh though I barely trust them on the ingredients.

I need to check if the novavax has any "trade secret" top secret ingredients like the Pfizer one.
NO NO NO!! Novavax is injecting spike protein direct - this does not make it safer. Moth DNA ffs

I know how had you tried but it's still disappointing to read.
 

tankasnowgod

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Thanks Peatness.

I only had time to read this one so far, but it was extremely useful since it compiled data about shedding from 100 publications. It says it defined shedding as "the dissemination of a gene therapy vector in any form into the environment." However, if I understand the terminology correctly, only the J&J COVID vaccine uses a spike protein vector.

So, does that mean that this review doesn't apply to mRNA vaccines?
The publication itself is from 2007, so it would only have general application to the current vector based "therapies" (like J&J, AZ, and Novavax), and maybe to drugs in general. Also, keep in mind their definition of "shedding"

In this project, shedding is defined as the dissemination of a gene therapy vector in any form into the environment, which includes contamination of other persons, through excreta from the treated subject or patient. Urine, faeces, sweat, saliva, nasopharyngeal fluids (including nasal and pharyngeal swabs and bronchoalveolar lavages), skin and semen were considered excreta. In trials using a route of administration other than injection into the circulation, blood and related products like serum, plasma and peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) were taken into consideration as well. In general, these biological materials are not considered true excreta since they do not shed into the environment spontaneously.

This is pretty much universally applicable to drugs. If you take some aspirin orally, you will certainly find it in the blood after an hour or so. And almost every drug (and every other ingested substance) will find it's way into the urine or feces at some point. It's even been discussed on the forum, how residues from things like birth control and SSRIs affect animals outside of waste treatment plants.

Even those treated with Radiation for cancer will "shed," according to the definition in the article. It's found in urine and such for a few days after treatment.

It is important to note that in general positive shedding data are reported for only a part of the patients tested. In addition, shedding is often short lasting and is observed during the first 1 or 2 days after vector administration.

The potential impact of being exposed to an intact and infectious viral vector shed from an individual treated by gene therapy depends on the capacity of the vector to replicate and integrate as well as on the therapeutic transgene. For instance, the environmental threat imposed by shedding of a replication-deficient vector coding for a suicide gene, which has no effect in the absence of a prodrug, will be far less compared to shedding of a replication-competent vector coding for a cytotoxic gene.
They pretty much summed on how I've thought about this from the beginning. Obviously, any risk of contamination is the highest right after treatment. If the dose given wasn't fatal or caused serious symptoms to the person who got the shot, any side effects should be pretty minimal to anyone having causal contact. Exchange of body fluids should probably be avoided for an extended period (especially in regards to breastfeeding).

But really, the only longer term danger is if it somehow "replicates" the problematic material. Of course, the mRNA shots claim to do this (with no regards in amount or duration), and this itself should be concerning. But, just like everything else with their effectiveness, there is very little evidence they do cause the alleged "Spike Protein" to be generated by the body, and if so, only for a couple weeks after the first injection. The studies that show it being detected are very small (all under 100 people), so not definitive in any way, shape, or form.
 
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Peatness

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Dr Wagh on shedding

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Source
 
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