My Observations With Supplementing Thyroid

[magpie]

Hi Charlie,

How much Thiroyd do you take now? And is the dosage the same as regular dessicated thyroid - i.e. 60 mg has 38 mcg T4 and 9 mcg T4?

I have exactly the same response as you do - as I'm trying to increase my dosage I have to go through bummer periods of anxiety, insomnia, pounding heart, etc. I wrote in another post that at almost 3 grains (180 mg) of NP thyroid (my med) my T3 tested top of range and T4 bottom of range. And I felt jumpy. Against all advice, I dropped my dose down to 2 1/2 grains and added 12.5 mcg and now 25 mcg Synthroid. But i'm feeling decidedly worse in the last 2 weeks. Last night marked 2 weeks of the additional 12.5 mcg Synthroid and for the first night in a long time - anxiety, insomnia, and nightmarish dreams. Obviously a lot of adrenaline. Now I'm not sure if I should go back to pure dessicated thyroid or stay at this dose with all its horrors until bloodwork can be done in a couple of weeks.

So I'm very interested in how high a dose you've gotten up to, if your pounding heart has gone away, and what your temps / heart rate are usually at now.

Thanks!!!!!

 

[charlie]

I may be wrong, but I think the only true way to be able to dose with thyroid is by feel. Only you know how you feel.

If the adrenaline is too much and I do not want to wait it out until it calms down. Then I will simply back off into the sweet spot and chill out there for a while until I feel like pushing it up again.

Oh and during the summer my need for thyroid dramatically decreased. Now that fall/winter is creeping in I will be watching for the signs of too little thyroid and am prepared to adjust up as needed.

Pounding heartbeat is now a strong heartbeat. Temps are improving still along with pulse.

 

[4peatssake]

Oh and during the summer my need for thyroid dramatically increased.

You mean decreased not increased - correct?
I definitely had to dose down in the summer and now am finding I am needing to adjust my dosage upward.

And I agree, you have to go by feel and everyone's needs will be different.

 

[magpie]

No you're right - feel is better than blood work numbers and I'm just being a chicken and still trying to do things the "right" way not the "peat" way. Since I was a bit nervous and jumpy at 3 grains, I assumed blood work with T3 top of the range and T4 at the bottom was a problem. Maybe it wasn't.

 

[charlie]

Oh and during the summer my need for thyroid dramatically increased.

You mean decreased not increased - correct?
I definitely had to dose down in the summer and now am finding I am needing to adjust my dosage upward.

And I agree, you have to go by feel and everyone's needs will be different.

Oops! Thank you for pointing that out 4ps.

Gonna go fix that now.

 

[jaguar43]

Well this is something I know a little about since I have been reading for centuries.

T3 is VERY DELICATE. It does not store well nor does it last a long time. It will probably lose efficacy before the expiry date. Neither extreme temperature is good....best is in bedside drawer and away from light.

Also, while dosing slowly can be good for some, for others it will cause more hypo symptoms. When you begin to suppress your own production, then the only thyroid you are getting is from your supplement. You need to take adequate to get your temps and pulse up. No more no less....but don't always assume slow is better either. Just the right pace is what wins the race.....the secret is how to find it.

Also I just found out, from Peat, if you are due your next dose of t3, and temps/pulse are high, you can nix that dose. I guess the idea is to ultimately get your own thyroid to do the job.

I have been doing this for the past few days and am happy to be taking less meds.

Do you have any links or sources that shows that T3 is delicate? I have always got cynomel and cynoplus that is a few months backs and it works well.

 

[HDD]

I now have cynomel and cynoplus. Should I do as RP suggested from Ray Peat's Brain?

"Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day."

Cynomel=T3
Cynoplus=T4&T3

How do I know which to use? Any body using this and any advice? Should I cut back on coffee, aspirin, and other supplements while getting used to taking T3?

 

[leo]

Jag...no I do not have links or studies, but I have worked with several compounding pharmacies along the way and the pharmacists seem to be in agreement that it is much more delicate to handle than t4. I personally have also noticed over the years that the last pills in my bottle (cytomel) start to feel weaker and I need more to get the same effect. When I open a new bottle, this effect seems to go away.

Could be exp date, light, humidity.....I really don't know.

HDDiane...I am not familiar with combining those two. But best advice is always to go slow.

 

[4peatssake]

I now have cynomel and cynoplus. Should I do as RP suggested from Ray Peat's Brain?

"Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day."

Cynomel=T3
Cynoplus=T4&T3

How do I know which to use? Any body using this and any advice? Should I cut back on coffee, aspirin, and other supplements while getting used to taking T3?

I'll PM you.

 

[jaguar43]

I now have cynomel and cynoplus. Should I do as RP suggested from Ray Peat's Brain?

"Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day."

Cynomel=T3
Cynoplus=T4&T3

How do I know which to use? Any body using this and any advice? Should I cut back on coffee, aspirin, and other supplements while getting used to taking T3?

When I wake up and go to bed I take cynoplus. Eating breakfast and lunch I take cynomel. Possibly at dinner.I always ate some with food just because I get depleted quickly.

But I would recommend Ray Peats advice.

 

[HDD]

Do you take cynoplus at bedtime to help with sleep? I was thinking about using a small amount of cynomel at bedtime.

 

[4peatssake]

Do you take cynoplus at bedtime to help with sleep? I was thinking about using a small amount of cynomel at bedtime.

That's what I do and also milk with sugar to help with sleep.

 

[HDD]

Which one do you use at bedtime 4ps?

 

[Shesjay]

Yeah dont put it in the freezer, store it at room temperature. The freezing and thawing process may diminish its activity. I've even read some reports from T4 users that became hypothyroid when taking T4 stored in the refrigerator.

What about in a hot, humid climate? I've been keeping mine in the fridge, since the bottle says max 30C, I think... Indoors it's usually around 27C, but it's getting hotter every week now. Am I best to keep it in the fridge, still, do you think? :?

 

[4peatssake]

Which one do you use at bedtime 4ps?

Oh sorry, cynomel before bed. I take cynoplus once a day, in the morning with breakfast, and then a few mcg of cynomel throughout the day.

 

[HDD]

Thank you, 4ps!

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Taking thiroyd for 5 days now, hardly any effect... used 1/8th - 1/10... will start 1/4 now. Heart still pounding, adrenaline surges (this horrible stuff started before any kind of thyroid supp, in fact this is the reason I'm taking it... hoping my heart beats normally again) ... at this point I wonder if I don't have a heart defect or something. Can't take it much longer

 

[4peatssake]

Taking thiroyd for 5 days now, hardly any effect... used 1/8th - 1/10... will start 1/4 now. Heart still pounding, adrenaline surges (this horrible stuff started before any kind of thyroid supp, in fact this is the reason I'm taking it... hoping my heart beats normally again) ... at this point I wonder if I don't have a heart defect or something. Can't take it much longer

Five days is not enough time to feel any significant effect.

The effect is cumulative (the t4 builds up in your tissues) and while I do not take dessicated thyroid (I use cynoplus and cynomel), it was about 3-4 weeks before I felt any significant effect. It is important to go slow and monitor your temp and pulse as you increase your dose. You need to allow the body the time it needs to adjust.

My experience was I felt little to nothing and then all of sudden I felt terrific. Taking thyroid was the only thing that has raised my temps and has done me the most good.

This link isn't Peat but it explains in plain terms the danger of dosing too fast. Charlie can tell you about that as well. You don't want to do that because it will put more stress on your heart. The very last thing you want to do is create further stress on your body by taking too much thyroid hormone at once.

Adjusting Doses

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Thanks for the voice of reason. I'm just scared... I'm scared that this will never ever go away again. It's been already a year with these horrible symptoms, I wouldn't wish this heart pounding on my worst enemy (if I had one). If thyroid fails to fix this once and for all, I'm left with nothing...that's what I'm afraid of.

 

[4peatssake]

Thanks for the voice of reason. I'm just scared... I'm scared that this will never ever go away again. It's been already a year with these horrible symptoms, I wouldn't wish this heart pounding on my worst enemy (if I had one). If thyroid fails to fix this once and for all, I'm left with nothing...that's what I'm afraid of.

I understand. But you don't want fear to influence your decisions. So it is important to do your research and take your time, even though that is difficult. Make sure you chart your temps and pulse so you have an accurate idea each day how you are progressing. Slow and steady really does win this race.

Do you bag breath? How about epsom salt/baking soda baths? Is your diet on target? All of Ray Peat's recommendations together are so very important.

The Work by Byron Katie is helpful in taking on those shitty voices in your head. Negative fearful thoughts cause tremendous stress. The truth is those thought can create cascading problems and yet they nearly always NEVER come true. That's the irony. If your thoughts are not positive and helpful to you, best to get rid of them.