Thyroid questions

[Parsifal]

Hey guys,

I'm reading the forum and Peat since 2 month now but still haven't understood important things about the thyroid, this is why I wanted to ask you the following questions:

- I still don't understand why the blood test can show that you are euthyroid (normal thyroid hormone production) and how you can still suffer from hypothyroidism symptoms.
It seems that Broda Barnes called this phenomenon type 2 hypothyroidism but I still haven't read his books so don't really understand what would be a logical biological explanation for this.
Sorry if the question might sound stupid but I still have attention disorder, english is not my native langage and I've discovered Peat only since 2 month hence I don't really understand that.

- Furthermore, I still haven't really understood what's the difference between hypo and hyperthyroidism, it seems that Peat says that people can be diagnosed the same by different doctors so it's quite confusing to me .
I also remember that he said in an article that it might be good for regeneration to be slightly hyperthyroid? But isn't hyperthyroidism really bad and negative for health?
Is there a risk of thyroid overdose from supplementation or is it just that increasing/uncoupling (I still don't perfectly understand what it means) our metabolism needs increasing our nutrients intake and as long as we supply enough nutrients to the body we will not have bad consequences?

- It seems that Peat is drawing a sort of antagonism in hormonal pathways of thyroid and stress (adrenalin, cortisol, ACTH...) but I've read that high thyroid increases adrenalin and reduces GABA and it seems strange to me as thyroid is increasing metabolism and adrenalin seems to reduce or block it... Would it be better to raise our thyroid as much as we could while raising GABA and steroids as much as we could while lowering stress hormones as much as we could or is there some kind of subtle balance?
By the way I've read some people here saying that they wanted to slow down their respiration rate as if having a fast respiration rate was bad?

- In France it seems really difficult compared to the US to get drugs and to find a compliant doctor to prescribe it (they act a bit like "heroes" and "superior enlightened ones" and really hate when the patient is a bit directive and will not listen), doctors in this country really have strong egos and as we have the "sécurité sociale" most of our drugs are refunded, thus the prescription is really less easy to get and controlled and doctors have strong pressures from this system.
Would you have ideas on how to get some thyroid in this context please or does a dessicated animal thyroid gland would be good enough to correct a type 2 hypothyroidism that seems to not be recognized here?
By the way, what's the difference between thyroid products: Cytomel, Cytoplus and others. What is recommanded to take and why?

Thanks !

 

[Giraffe]

post 103264 - In France it seems really difficult compared to the US to get drugs and to find a compliant doctor to prescribe it (they act a bit like "heroes" and "superior enlightened ones" and really hate when the patient is a bit directive and will not listen), doctors in this country really have strong egos and as we have the "sécurité sociale" most of our drugs are refunded, thus the prescription is really less easy to get and controlled and doctors have strong pressures from this system.

The same difficulties in Germany. Most drugs discussed in the forum are prescription drugs. I read in a blog that it might help to ask for a "private prescription" (one you pay yourself). I have not tried this route yet, and I don't think that I would get thyroid meds, but DHEA, progesterone, cyproheptadine... might be easier to get this way.

 

[answersfound]

This may be of help to you:

Practin 30 Weight Gain Pills https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I46WUAA/re ... fwb92N1BEF

 

[Parsifal]

post 103275 This may be of help to you:

Practin 30 Weight Gain Pills https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I46WUAA/re ... fwb92N1BEF

They don't ship to France and this is not thyroid. But anyways thanks.

 

[answersfound]

post 103289

post 103275 This may be of help to you:

Practin 30 Weight Gain Pills https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I46WUAA/re ... fwb92N1BEF

They don't ship to France and this is not thyroid. But anyways thanks.

Yea I know, but it's a great healing tool. More important to my recovery than thyroid. You can get away without thyroid, using coffee for example, but good luck finding a substitute for cypro.

If you do want thyroid maybe check pim pom product

 

[Parsifal]

Yea I know, but it's a great healing tool. More important to my recovery than thyroid. You can get away without thyroid, using coffee for example, but good luck finding a substitute for cypro.

If you do want thyroid maybe check pim pom product

Will try that as soon as I can, thanks :).

 

[Parsifal]

 

[HDD]

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/hy ... dism.shtml

"Aging, infection, trauma, prolonged cortisol excess, somatostatin, dopamine or L-dopa, adrenaline (sometimes; Mannisto, et al., 1979), amphetamine, caffeine and fever can lower TSH, apart from the effect of feedback by the thyroid hormones, creating a situation in which TSH can appear normal or low, at the same time that there is a real hypothyroidism.

A disease or its treatment can obscure the presence of hypothyroidism. Parkinson's disease is a clear example of this. (Garcia-Moreno and Chacon, 2002: “... in the same way hypothyroidism can simulate Parkinson's disease, the latter can also conceal hypothyroidism.”)

"Because the actions of T3 can be inhibited by many factors, including polyunsaturated fatty acids, reverse T3, and excess thyroxine, the absolute level of T3 can't be used by itself for diagnosis. “Free T3” or “free T4” is a laboratory concept, and the biological activity of T3 doesn't necessarily correspond to its “freedom” in the test. T3 bound to its transport proteins can be demonstrated to enter cells, mitochondria, and nuclei. Transthyretin, which carries both vitamin A and thyroid hormones, is sharply decreased by stress, and should probably be regularly measured as part of the thyroid examination."

 

[Parsifal]

Thanks for your reply, that was helpful to understand more things. But it raises other questions:

- Why do RP and Barnes advise to supplement with T3 if the euthyroid type 2 hypothyroidism is not created by a lack of T3? Isn't there a better way to work on it to make it work again?
- Isn't there a risk of urpregulating "receptors" by taking too much T3, creating a dependance to T3 to be able to have a normal metabolism?

 

[tara]

According to my reading of Peat:

post 103264 - I still don't understand why the blood test can show that you are euthyroid (normal thyroid hormone production) and how you can still suffer from hypothyroidism symptoms.

- The standard ranges drs use to assess hypo-/eu-/hyperthyroid are very wide ranges that assume (without evidence) that 95% of people are euthyroid. TSH under 1 is probably generally good. Over 2 is unlikly to go with good health. The standard ranges often go up over 4. So people with TSH of 4 get told they are euthyroid.
It is apparently common for drs to only look at TSH, without looking at other parameters, and judge someone euthyroid on that basis alone. It is much rarer for drs to test and assess all the relevant hormones, including reverse T3. Under some conditions, some of the T4 gets converted to rT3. rT3 blocks the action of T3.

post 103264 I also remember that he said in an article that it might be good for regeneration to be slightly hyperthyroid? But isn't hyperthyroidism really bad and negative for health?

- Being a little hyperthyroid temporarily while the system is adjusting to eg progesterone may not be a problem for most people. A body temp of 99 deg F is euthyroid, and is a good place to be for healing. This is just slightly higher than the usual standard. As I understand it, being really hyperthyroid can be a serious problem. But being just a tiny bit above the usual range may be normal in the sense of optimal, if not in the sense of usual.

post 103264 Is there a risk of thyroid overdose from supplementation or is it just that increasing/uncoupling (I still don't perfectly understand what it means) our metabolism needs increasing our nutrients intake and as long as we supply enough nutrients to the body we will not have bad consequences?

I think there is a risk from supplementing thyroid with inadequate nutrition. Reduced metabolism is a pro-survival adaptation to malnutrition/undernutrition (including calories). Trying to override this with supplements can cause various difficulties - either increased stress hormones and catabolism of organs, or various other problemnatic compensatory mechanisms to reduce metabolism again, or both.
But there may well be other limiting factors other than diet.
Peat has talked about dangers from supplementing too much T4 without an appropriate proportion of T3. When conversion of T4 to active T3 is inadequate, supplementing T4 can cause problems. IIRC, he has a story in one of his articles about a woman how was clearly hypothhyroid, and got dangerously worse and worse as they kept giving her more T4 (and recovered when they eventually gave her some T3). The brain is especially vulnerable to excess T4/insufficient T3. He says most people who need thyroid supps do best with a ratio of 1:2-1:4 of T3:T4.

Cynoplus is 1:4 T3:T4. Cytomel and Cynomel are T3.

- T3 is the acive hormone; T4 is the substrate for this. Some people have trouble converting T4 to T3 efficiently in the liver and other tissue. Adding a little T3 (probably as well as some T4) can help improve cellular metabolism. For people who do the conversion well enough, T3 is probably not needed. Haidut as pointed out some substances (eg coffee) that may help with the conversion, and he suggests that for people who produce enough T4 but not enough T3, some of these substances may be useful, and worth trying before going for supps including T3. I have a speculation that for those of us who don't produce sufficient T4, this feature may be part of why susbstances that enhance it's conversion to T3 cause trouble.

post 103264 - It seems that Peat is drawing a sort of antagonism in hormonal pathways of thyroid and stress (adrenalin, cortisol, ACTH...) but I've read that high thyroid increases adrenalin and reduces GABA and it seems strange to me as thyroid is increasing metabolism and adrenalin seems to reduce or block it... Would it be better to raise our thyroid as much as we could while raising GABA and steroids as much as we could while lowering stress hormones as much as we could or is there some kind of subtle balance?

Peat has said increasing thyroid by supps can cause increased sensitivity to adrenaline. This usually passes after a few days/weeks(?).
I think if thyroid is supplemented without adequate nutrition, then low lood sugar etc trigger stress hormones including adrenaline to make more fuel available for the increased metabolic rate.
I imagine there might be other mechanisms at play if metabolisms goes higher that the body considers good.
Some people here have talked about trouble they've associated with trying to push metabolism up too fast.
Lots of metabolic processes occur optimally at normal body temps, and not so well if too hot or too cold.

post 103264 By the way I've read some people here saying that they wanted to slow down their respiration rate as if having a fast respiration rate was bad?

Not sure if you are referring to breathing rate or cellular respiration rate?
Breathing too fast can lower CO2 levels too far, thus reduce oxygen supply to tissues, which can reduce the cellular oxidation rate.

 

[Joocy_J]

post 103264 - In France it seems really difficult compared to the US to get drugs and to find a compliant doctor to prescribe it (they act a bit like "heroes" and "superior enlightened ones" and really hate when the patient is a bit directive and will not listen), doctors in this country really have strong egos and as we have the "sécurité sociale" most of our drugs are refunded, thus the prescription is really less easy to get and controlled and doctors have strong pressures from this system.

The same difficulties in Germany. Most drugs discussed in the forum are prescription drugs. I read in a blog that it might help to ask for a "private prescription" (one you pay yourself). I have not tried this route yet, and I don't think that I would get thyroid meds, but DHEA, progesterone, cyproheptadine... might be easier to get this way.

With the way things are going in the US this is going to be happening here soon. I seriously hate socialists.

 

[tara]

post 103641

post 103264 - In France it seems really difficult compared to the US to get drugs and to find a compliant doctor to prescribe it (they act a bit like "heroes" and "superior enlightened ones" and really hate when the patient is a bit directive and will not listen), doctors in this country really have strong egos and as we have the "sécurité sociale" most of our drugs are refunded, thus the prescription is really less easy to get and controlled and doctors have strong pressures from this system.

The same difficulties in Germany. Most drugs discussed in the forum are prescription drugs. I read in a blog that it might help to ask for a "private prescription" (one you pay yourself). I have not tried this route yet, and I don't think that I would get thyroid meds, but DHEA, progesterone, cyproheptadine... might be easier to get this way.

With the way things are going in the US this is going to be happening here soon. I seriously hate socialists.

Yeah, you gotta hate those socialist pharmaceutical companies, trying so hard to redistribute health and wealth to serve everybody's interests, when they could just fill their own pockets.

post 104014

post 103982
...BTW, I saw you mention FDA concerns somewhere. In my experience, the FDA comes down on those making health claims for non-prescription products, especially when diseases are mentioned. Those who don't make health claims, but instead use vague language like "energy booster" and such, tend to get left alone, from what I've seen.

I really wish the situation was that simple. FDA has been known to crack down on anything they deem a threat to the drug supply and demand. The steroid androstenedione, which is a natural metabolite of DHEA and has even less direct anabolic activity than DHEA was classified as anabolic steroid by Congress in 2004 after heavy lobbying by the FDA. Online stores were getting shut down well before Andro became illegal in 2004. I know people who have been shut down for selling the thyroid hormone T2, even though it is perfectly legal. Finally, FDA is seriously considering withdrawing from the market the vitamins P5P and biotin due to competing pharma interests. So, yes, if you do anything they dislike and it is big enough to affect drug sales you will be shut down or at least get involved in a costly legal battles against an opponent who has no budgetary limit on legal fees.

 

[Joocy_J]

post 104102

post 103641

post 103264 - In France it seems really difficult compared to the US to get drugs and to find a compliant doctor to prescribe it (they act a bit like "heroes" and "superior enlightened ones" and really hate when the patient is a bit directive and will not listen), doctors in this country really have strong egos and as we have the "sécurité sociale" most of our drugs are refunded, thus the prescription is really less easy to get and controlled and doctors have strong pressures from this system.

The same difficulties in Germany. Most drugs discussed in the forum are prescription drugs. I read in a blog that it might help to ask for a "private prescription" (one you pay yourself). I have not tried this route yet, and I don't think that I would get thyroid meds, but DHEA, progesterone, cyproheptadine... might be easier to get this way.

With the way things are going in the US this is going to be happening here soon. I seriously hate socialists.

Yeah, you gotta hate those socialist pharmaceutical companies, trying so hard to redistribute health and wealth to serve everybody's interests, when they could just fill their own pockets.

post 104014

post 103982
...BTW, I saw you mention FDA concerns somewhere. In my experience, the FDA comes down on those making health claims for non-prescription products, especially when diseases are mentioned. Those who don't make health claims, but instead use vague language like "energy booster" and such, tend to get left alone, from what I've seen.

I really wish the situation was that simple. FDA has been known to crack down on anything they deem a threat to the drug supply and demand. The steroid androstenedione, which is a natural metabolite of DHEA and has even less direct anabolic activity than DHEA was classified as anabolic steroid by Congress in 2004 after heavy lobbying by the FDA. Online stores were getting shut down well before Andro became illegal in 2004. I know people who have been shut down for selling the thyroid hormone T2, even though it is perfectly legal. Finally, FDA is seriously considering withdrawing from the market the vitamins P5P and biotin due to competing pharma interests. So, yes, if you do anything they dislike and it is big enough to affect drug sales you will be shut down or at least get involved in a costly legal battles against an opponent who has no budgetary limit on legal fees.

The war on drugs is a socialist enterprise: http://www.druglibrary.org/special/frie ... ialist.htm

When "equality" is appiled through a centralized authority in a society the freedom of individuals is minimized.

Many intelligent people have been misled by socialism.

 

[Parsifal]

The war on drugs is a socialist enterprise: http://www.druglibrary.org/special/frie ... ialist.htm

When "equality" is appiled through a centralized authority in a society the freedom of individuals is minimized.

Many intelligent people have been misled by socialism.

People are just too much focused on the political and economical systems to identify what the problem of nowaday's world is and everyone has his conviction on which system is right or wrong.
But the problem is deeper than the system, we live in a Ploutocracy (while we are told that we live in a Democracy but we've been deceived for a lot of reasons that would too long to be exposed here) and we could apply and try any system (Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, Liberalism, etc) there would still be debt, budget deficit, unemployment, corruption and big problems with our consumer society, health, research and ecology.