My Observations With Supplementing Thyroid

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charlie

charlie

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4peatssake said:
Five days is not enough time to feel any significant effect.

The effect is cumulative (the t4 builds up in your tissues) and while I do not take dessicated thyroid (I use cynoplus and cynomel), it was about 3-4 weeks before I felt any significant effect. It is important to go slow and monitor your temp and pulse as you increase your dose. You need to allow the body the time it needs to adjust.

My experience was I felt little to nothing and then all of sudden I felt terrific. Taking thyroid was the only thing that has raised my temps and has done me the most good.

This link isn't Peat but it explains in plain terms the danger of dosing too fast. Charlie can tell you about that as well. You don't want to do that because it will put more stress on your heart. The very last thing you want to do is create further stress on your body by taking too much thyroid hormone at once.

Adjusting Doses
 

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saul42

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I have been taking Thiroyd for about 5 days but I started with 1/4 tablet 3 times a day and then on the 5th day moved to 1/4 tablet 4 times a day. I noticed my temp improve but my heart is not pounding. My pulse did go up to 94 one day but for the most part its in the 80-85 ranges and temp has moved up from 96.5 to 97.7 in the morning and then it moves to 98.2 later on.

So am i doing the right thing or am I taking too much. I have not felt bad and am generally feeling better, but am wondering why i am not experiencing the symptoms many are describing here when they first started taking thryroid, especially as i appear to be taking a lot more.
 
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There's a lot of variability in individual response. I am now 4th day on 1/4 because the smaller doses were not doing anything. I'm still not sure if it's helping me thus far. Temps & pulse are still low.

Your heart should not be pounding but your pulse should increase. A normal heartbeat is not really seen, heard or felt.

My heart has been working fine all my life, I had a pulse of about 80ish when I was healthy, it was always nice, smooth, no hiccups. My pulse went down into the 50s from a lot of exercising. Last autumn, just 2-3 weeks after starting the RP diet, my heart started pounding out of my chest. It's been almost a year now. The reason is probably due to running on adrenaline, or magnesium deficiency from hypothyroidism, or something...either way the hypothyroidism played a role. I might have lowered my stress hormones really suddenly with all the sugar and the thyroid was too weak to step in and do the job.

I'm hoping the pounding will stop when I get my thyroid dose dialed in. If you feel good then keep it up. You are only taking 1 grain daily total, right? That is about ~40 mcg of T4 and 8 mcg of T3, not "too much" by any means, if you feel good on that dose.
 

SAFarmer

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This is an interesting thread for me. I have started my whole family (5) on thyroid supplements. We are all hypothyroid to some extent with varying symptoms. I am using synthetic T4 and T3 .
I am very conservative and started the first week with 5 mcg T3 / day and upped it gradually the past 3 weeks by 5 mcg/day to later a full pill of 20 mcg / day taken 1/4 every 4 or so hours. My kids responded very well and fast. Their temps went up from 34 to 36-37 and is staying there. Their dosage prob wont have to be increased soon.

Me and my wife's case are way different though. I did not seem to respond very much and my temps stayed at around 34.5, maybe up 0.5 deg C. So I started reading a lot wider. Bodybuilding forums where they use T3 for slimming (cutting) there some suggested that many men (and woman) wont react unless the T3 dosage is above 75 mcg ! So I researched some more and found the archived website of John C Lowe and read how he treated his hundreds and maybe thousands of patients. He used relatively very high dosages of just T3 in about a third of his patients before they responded and became better. He himself have used 120 mcg of only T3 for 25 years and was in perfect health at age 65 when he died of complications of an accidential head injury. I also read some research papers from his other website Thyroidscience.com where other doctors have treated patients with high dosages of just T3. So, ... I have increased me and my wife's T3 dosage to 80 mcg / day now and things started changing. My temps are up to between 35.5 and 36 C and pulse about 70 -80. So still a long way from 37 deg C and 85 pulse which means there is scope to increase the dosage even more. I'll do it in increments of 20mcg from now every week. At least my hands and feet are no longer cold ! My sleep is alot deeper now and my dreams (good ones) have returned.

My wife's temp have gone up beautifully (from 32 C ! ) to between 36.5 qand 37 C and pulse of 75, so not too high at all. She is prob very close to her ideal dosage. I have read on the body building forums that women tend to benefit from lower dosages of T3 than men do.

I also used some T4 (25 - 50 mcg /day) up to now, but I think I'll experiment with either no T4 at all or just 25 mcg / day from now on and see how it goes. In some people it seems that T4 could become reverse T3 which block the T3 and they then dont get relief from their symptoms.

So, everyone is different and each have to find their own correct combination T4 /T3 and dosage, but don't be too scared of much higher T3, unless ofcourse you have heart problems where it could be dangerous to up the dosage too quickly.
 

saul42

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MyUsernameHere said:
There's a lot of variability in individual response. I am now 4th day on 1/4 because the smaller doses were not doing anything. I'm still not sure if it's helping me thus far. Temps & pulse are still low.

Your heart should not be pounding but your pulse should increase. A normal heartbeat is not really seen, heard or felt.

I'm hoping the pounding will stop when I get my thyroid dose dialed in. If you feel good then keep it up. You are only taking 1 grain daily total, right? That is about ~40 mcg of T4 and 8 mcg of T3, not "too much" by any means, if you feel good on that dose.


Yes I am using a max of 1 grain so far and yesterday night just to test I took an extra 1/4 tablet so 1 1/4 and my temp moved to 98.3. I still have some way to go to get to 98.7. I think preparing your body by following a thryoid friendly diet helps and might prevent most of the symptoms. Before starting Thiroyd I followed something close to a RP diet. Ate huge amounts of cheese, fruits, large amounts of honey, drank a lot of milk, ate small amounts of muscle meat, drank coffee, cut all PUFA's that I could. I did this for at least 4 months. In the process even though i was drinking natural full fat milk from the farm (now i just take regular milk from the store with no hormones) i lost 10 pounds of extra weight.

RP also stated that if a person monitors himself that they can find the optimum dosage in 2 days and then slowly lower it as temp and pulse adjust. So i think i will stick with what I am doing now. I am now at 1 tablet but will move up to 1 1/4 next week and then slowly to 1 1/2 tablets. Once my temp hits 98.7 I will start to back off and lower the dosage. So far I have not experienced any bad effects. My Pulse was already improving before I took Thiroyd. Pulse was normal 80-85. So far it jumped only once to 94. However I would like it to be in the 85-90 ranges.

I have seen remarkable changes in temp. I would sometimes get up with a temp as low as 96.5. Now it is 97.8 and after breakfast its 98.2 (high so far 98.4) and I am on thyroid for less than a week. Will keep you guys posted on my progress.

My opinion there is no fixed dosage for everyone and if you have done your homework and pay attention to your body then do not be a afraid to experiment.
If i had followed standard protocol I would have had to wait weeks to feel better. However I decided to experiment but at every step of the way i measured pulse and temp and paid attention to my body. If something changes for the worse. I will immediately cut down the dosage.

It takes 2 weeks to accumulate in the tissue so I will probably lower my dosage just a bit when i hit that mark and then see what happens. If temp is not optimal i will go back to whatever dose i was at that point. One woman according to RP had to take 12 grains a day before she noticed anything. So we are all different.

Just a note on experimenting. Before I was even aware of RP. I ran into someone who cured himself from diabetes just by eating lots of honey and drinking milk.

I decided to experiment as my sugar was almost 300 and A1c was 13. I adjusted a few things, like eating a lot more butter, fresh cheese, farmers cheese, huge amounts of milk, honey, ate a lot of fruit, chocolates and potatoes. In 3 months Fasting sugar dropped to the 120-140 ranges and A1c came in at 6.7. All with no medications.

The reason I am playing with thyroid is that most individuals with high blood sugar are hypothyroid and it seems that one way to reverse things would be to get the thyroid up and running. I have now plateaued out at 120-140, so I want to see if thyroid can improve things.
 

SAFarmer

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saul42 said:
MyUsernameHere said:
Just a note on experimenting. Before I was even aware of RP. I ran into someone who cured himself from diabetes just by eating lots of honey and drinking milk.

Out of interest, since my one son is T1 diabetic, was this person you are referring to T1 diabetic as well or T2 ?
 

jyb

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SAFarmer said:
My kids responded very well and fast. Their temps went up from 34 to 36-37 and is staying there. Their dosage prob wont have to be increased soon.

Just curious, how easy is it to get kids on thyroid supps? I can imagine that the diet would be easier to dial in though.
 

SAFarmer

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jyb said:
SAFarmer said:
My kids responded very well and fast. Their temps went up from 34 to 36-37 and is staying there. Their dosage prob wont have to be increased soon.

Just curious, how easy is it to get kids on thyroid supps? I can imagine that the diet would be easier to dial in though.
Ray Peat and his diet recs saved the health of my one son after all the doctors threw their hands up in the air after 3 months of all tests and medication and said he had to have a mental problem and wanted to put him on anti - anxiety drugs etc . Thanks to lots of sugar (especially jello and coke) and milk again (after a low carb nightmare) , he recovered enough to be "well" again, but nowhere near as healthy as they should be re pulse and temps, hence the thyroid sups as well.
 

saul42

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SAFarmer said:
saul42 said:
MyUsernameHere said:
Just a note on experimenting. Before I was even aware of RP. I ran into someone who cured himself from diabetes just by eating lots of honey and drinking milk.

Out of interest, since my one son is T1 diabetic, was this person you are referring to T1 diabetic as well or T2 ?

This guys was Type 2 but from what I have read Type 1's also have thyroid issues and are even more likely to be hypothyroid. It would be a good thing to follow a thyroid friendly diet as this diet generally seems to help those with sugar issues.

One thing I noticed is that sugar tends to stabilize more when you fruits (ripe fruits). This probably has to do with the fact that the sugar in fruits is more Fructose. The second best option would be Honey and milk.

Also eliminate anything that is estrogenic. When eating potatoes I would take a walk 1 1/2 hour to 2 hours after the meal and walk for at least 30 minutes. Incredibly when i did this sugar almost always dropped down to the 100 or 105 and in many case it dropped down to 95. The potassium in potatoes is very good as potassium is critical for balancing out sugar levels. OJ is also very good but it should be homemade and again you should take a small walk 1 1/2 hours after drinking it and having a meal. As time goes by your body starts to use up the sugar faster and faster. When i first ate potatoes if did not walk my sugar readings would jump as high as 250 1.5-2hrs later. 2 months after walking, my readings would not generally be in the 160-170 ranges without walking. Its now roughly 4 months and they remain as low as 150 without walking. However after walking they always drop down to the 100-110 ranges. For Type 1 this would not be an issue. The ideal diet could technically be Milk, Potatoes, OJ, some gelatin, butter and some honey. Note when I eat potatoes I always eat the with salt to taste and lots of butter or sour cream.
 

saul42

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jyb said:
SAFarmer said:
My kids responded very well and fast. Their temps went up from 34 to 36-37 and is staying there. Their dosage prob wont have to be increased soon.

Just curious, how easy is it to get kids on thyroid supps? I can imagine that the diet would be easier to dial in though.

It depends on their age. However as they are still young and the damage is limited due to their age, it would be easier to change things by putting them on the right diet. More sugar, milk, Jello (but with an excepients, better to make it at home), chocolate (without PUFA), coconut oil, butter or Ghee, lots of cheese, ice cream (no additives like Haagen Daz). Cut down grains or eliminate them, no bread, no starch (except potatoes), and no PUFA's. They should respond well. Even candy is fine as long as it has nothing bad in it.

A friend whose daughter was hyper active and suddenly would develop rash on her legs and hands went a bunch of doctors. They did nothing and I want even waste time stating what their diagnosis was. It was a joke to see what kind of bull**** they came up with. After allowing her to eat more sugar, more candy, more chocolate, drink a lot milk and fresh OJ. His daughter stabilized within a week. Now almost a month later she is almost in perfect health. Funny part he was worried at first because she would hardly eat anything. She was very happy with sugar, OJ, milk, candies, chocolates and Ice cream but would not want much of anything else and small amounts seemed to satisfy her. I guess her body knew what it needed. She still hardly wants to eat any solid food unless it is something sweet, but is extremely energetic and can run and play forever without tiring.
 

SAFarmer

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saul42 said:
SAFarmer said:
saul42 said:
MyUsernameHere said:
Just a note on experimenting. Before I was even aware of RP. I ran into someone who cured himself from diabetes just by eating lots of honey and drinking milk.

Out of interest, since my one son is T1 diabetic, was this person you are referring to T1 diabetic as well or T2 ?

This guys was Type 2 but from what I have read Type 1's also have thyroid issues and are even more likely to be hypothyroid. It would be a good thing to follow a thyroid friendly diet as this diet generally seems to help those with sugar issues.
People often uses the word "diabetic" without even knowing that there is a big difference between "insulin dependent" , T1 diabetics and T2 's . I'd like to talk to somebody that cured themselves of T1 .
 

saul42

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Was only trying to point out that it has been found that T1's usually have a tendency to be hypothyroid so this might be a clue as to dealing with the disease and possibly moving towards the direction of a cure.

I am sorry at this point in time i know no one who has cured themselves from type 1, my focus has been on Type 2.
 

Poppyseed13

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I have been taking Thiroyd for one year, and am still not at my optimal dose. I take eight grains (eight tablets) a day --broken down into four (4) separate doses.

Thiroyd has been very effective at improving many of my hypothyroid symptoms: It warms me up (no more cold hands/feet), improves my energy levels, my "air hunger" has been much diminished--and lastly, my (arthritic?) stiffness is almost gone.

I think Ray Peat's diet recommendations have supported and enhanced the benefits I have received from taking Thiroyd---and I think eventually his diet ideas will be key to whether or not I have to continue to take a NDT medication. Can the thyroid gland be completely healed with RP's diet and Thiroyd? I don't know yet, but it's a question I am in the midst of answering.

Also, whenever I have the "racing heart" (which can be frightening) I have a large glass of OJ with a teaspoon of salt (i.e. Lita Lee's "How to Use a Thyroid Glandular")... and within a half an hour my heartrate has calmed down.

Cheers,
Poppyseed13
 
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charlie

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Eight grains! Wow! Just goes to show how each person has to find what works for them and also how much.

Glad you are getting relief from your symptoms!!
 
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j.

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Charlie said:
Eight grains! Wow! Just goes to show how each person has to find what works for them and also how much.

Glad you are getting relief from your symptoms!!

haha, ilovethesea should see this.
 
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My observations:

-Synthroid - very limited improvement of worst symptoms
-Thiroyd - Everything becomes worse
-Thyrogold - brain fog from forskolin, otherwise absolutely useless, avoid
-Cynomel alone - scary chest pains
-Synthroid + cynomel - the best of the bunch but still nowhere near good

Happy days.
 

MommaBear

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I'm taking 3 60mg of thailand thyroid...3 times a day... crazy. I felt like crap on anything less.

I experimented a bit after learning about the hpa axis ..or whatever it is called on the stop the thyroid madness site....they said if you don't increase fast enough you will develop worse low thyroid symptoms and adrenals will spike more to compensate (I figured this is what causes those panic/anxiety attacks)

I started heart pounding and panic attacks after my Dr started me on armour about 8 yrs ago. she only allowed me 90 mg reluctantly . three other drs did the same stating that if I went hyperthyroid my eyes would bulge and it would be permanent . (Wtf?) my eyes always felt swoolen anyway. my rt3 was high. my tsh was .001, they had no clue how to read my saliva cortisol labs and I was still hypo thyroid symptoms . but with heart palps and anxiety aftee bring on low doses of armour. Synthroid did nothing. brain fog made me low functioning.

So I fired drs and accidentally found a friend who was a tad ahead of me on research and experimentation. she showed me the Thailand source of thyroid and I started dosing at
1 every 3 day increase increments. until by the first month I was up to 90 mg, 3x a day.

Collaborating with my friend these are the things we noticed..... more than 3 pills at a time caused angry/weird symptoms. we both got to 9 a day and felt great. temps for me are still under at 98.2 but it is better than 95!

When panic and heart palps happen, a grain of thyroid stops the symptoms within a few minutes. (I had not learned of the sugar and salt cure for these issues)

She had unique experience . her hubs was having his yearly asthma attack that usually sends him to the ER. on a whim she dosed him with 3 thyroids and his attack stopped.

Same goes for insomnia.. a dose helps calm us down. and sickness coming on would go away faster with an extra dose.

We all found that too low doses caused us panic/anxiety/stress issues as well as not bumping up fast enough. it seemed, for us (and a couple other gals that joined the research experiment) the panic signaled a needed increase. it felt much different than when we took too much at once (4 vs 3).


Everyone noticed this also... for a month or two after starting, there was an increase in fatigue at around 2 in the afternoon that required a nap. this dissipated after we reached our max dose and stayed there at least a month. we figured it was a necessary healing step of our bodies making us rest to heal.

Weird huh. we all have hashimotos. if that makes a difference.

I was at very low health after 2 close pregnancies and not eating enough for moat of my life. I was in the postpartum thyroid crash and not recovering. my hormones were very low as well. all my symptoms were that of adrenal fatigue. (which I know now is not what was going on). thyroid at these high doses have stopped my eye pain and I am quite a bit better temperament . My appetite is coming back as I am refeeding. severe depression Is gone and only peeks back when I forget some doses of thyroid a couple days. brain fog was gone when I got half way up the dose chart. my energy is so much improved (Altho spondylitis in my hips and back suck some energy out).

I hope someday to decrease dose and get off but I think I have a lot of damage that needs to be healed first as i am refeeding my body and have gained so much weight. I can't wait to get my metabolism stable and body fixed! I reduce my dose by 3 pills and wait 3 days since ray peat says it takes a few days for thyroid to start up. but so far it doesn't bump up so I restart the missing doses.

My 12 yo son started having ocd panic attacks. after a couple months of a few grains of thyroid his issue has stopped . he has hashimotos too.

Since starting these doses the thyroid nodules are down to where I don't have paid when I swallow any longer.

So that's my crazy experience.
 
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superhuman

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@SAFarmer i just read through the thread since some posted here today. How is it going with you today and how did the T3 protocol work out? an what did you learn from it and what are you doing now?
 

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