Thyroid hormone

Discussion in 'Synthetic Thyroid' started by dukez07, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. dukez07

    dukez07 Member

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    Nov 22, 2013
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    A thread for newbies.

    For those of us who know nothing about thyroid hormone.

    I read about t3 and t4. Do you get one drug that represents t3 and t4? Or would you get many, many drugs that represent both t3 and t4? If that is the case, which one is best? I would obviously chose the best thing at my disposal to try and minimise side effects.

    So far, I have only come across Triiodothyronine (t3?) and levothyroxine (t4?).


    Lastly, which one would you chose? If I am showing signs of hypothyroidism, do I start with t3? Or t4? What differentiates the two of them?

    Please correct me, if anything I have stated is wrong. I am a NOOB, and trying to learn as I go along.
     
  2. paper_clips43

    paper_clips43 Member

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    Sedona Arizona
    Here are some responses to other email from Ray Peat that another poster put on my thread. It really helped me understand more about which form of Thyroid to take.

    "THYROID (DOSE/BRANDS)

    Are there any combination products, such as Thyrolar or Cynoplus, that you can get in Spain? It's good to start with a small amount, such as 5 mcg of T3 twice a day, while watching for changes in your pulse rate, temperature, and ability to sleep. Half a grain of Armour, or about 30 mcg of T4 and 7.5 mcg of T3, is traditionally a common starting dose; it should be taken with a meal, so that it absorbs slowly. Taking a very small amount at bedtime usually helps with insomnia.

    Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day.

    It depends on what you notice from taking a small amount with meals. If it makes you feel pleasant, calm, confident, then trying it at bedtime would be right.

    25 mcg of T3 has approximately the activity of a grain (65 mg) of thyroid gland; is ERFA the only one available? A synthetic thyroxine could be combined with the Cynomel. Since the European products aren't necessarily the same as those made elsewhere, and a person's requirements are variable, it's essential to start with small amounts, watching for the effects, including pulse rate and temperature. T4 builds up slowly in the tissues, over about 14 days, but the T3 acts immediately. With any product, a single dose of T3 of about 4 mcg is close to the physiological range; sometimes a smaller amount is enough.

    As long as it's divided so that you don't get a big dose of T3 all at once it should be o.k. to take a total of 25 mcg T3 and 100 of T4.That would be similar to the traditional 2 grain dose of Armour thyroid. A healthy person should produce the equivalent of about four grains per day, so with 2 grains of supplement, or the equivalent, there isn't a risk of over-dosing.

    I use Cynomel and Cynoplus mostly, but they come in only one size, so I cut the tablets into about ten parts.

    Thyroid is the only thing that safely lowers cholesterol, but when your stress hormones are very high, you shouldn't take more than about one microgram of Cytomel at a time, and should accompany it with things like milk and orange juice.

    Twice a day should be o.k., [CYTOMEL] but every day you should make a note of your pulse rate and temperature, and in a week or ten days you should be able to see a progression.

    Sometimes it takes many months to get the metabolic rate stable at a higher level, and it's often necessary to use a thyroid supplement.

    It [CYTOMEL] improves the retention of magnesium, and cellular relaxation, and some people want to have a nap in the afternoon when their thyroid is good.

    If you use some T3 (such as Cytomel or Cynomel) it's important to keep each dose small, while watching for changes in your pulse and temperature. Usually 4 or 5 mcg at a time is o.k. (the body makes about 4 mcg per hour). I don't think there's likely to be any problem using desiccated thyroid if the product is good, but because of changing manufacturing methods, that's largely a matter of trial and error. Low ferritin is often a result of hypothyroidism. The need for thyroid increases greatly during the winter in high latitudes, for example when I needed half a grain in the summer, I had to increase it to two grains during the winter. When cholesterol is high, that can make it easier to adapt to a thyroid supplement, since the thyroid will stimulate the conversion of cholesterol into progesterone and the adrenal hormones.

    I have heard from a few people using it, one thinks it doesn't work , but I haven't heard enough details to form an opinion yet. [THIROYD by Greater Pharma]

    Armour thyroid, USP, was the standard thyroid used widely for about 80 years. Since ownership of the product name was bought by Revlon and then a series of other companies, I'm not sure anything of the simple original formula remains; maybe magnesium stearate, I haven't looked lately.

    With your TSH so high, you should probably add a thyroid supplement, until you get it down to about 1.0, or less. (The normal range, according to the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, is from 0.3 to 3.0.)

    A few years ago I had some communication from a pharmacist at Forest Pharmaceutical, and he said that over ten years ago they began having thyrocalcitonin extracted from the pig thyroid powder to sell separately as a new drug. I think that left stearic acid as the only ingredient the current product might have in common with traditional Armour thyroid, USP. I don't use any product containing fumed or colloidal silica, or titanium, or various novel polymers, or coloring agents

    I use Cynoplus (contains T4 and T3) and Cynomel (T3 only) that I usually get from http://www.mymexicandrugstore.mx. There is only one size tablet, and a fourth of a tablet is a typical starting dose.

    T3, by lowering stress, sometimes reveals a low basal metabolic rate, that was hidden by high stress hormones. The body produces about 4 mcg of T3 per hour, so taking more than that can interfere with regulatory processes. It's helpful to use the resting pulse rate, and the 24 hour temperature curve, along with other signs, such as mood, appearance of veins on the hands, etc. The peak temperature should be in the afternoon.

    I occasionally see that happen [T3 WILL CAUSE LOW TEMP/PULSE]; sometimes people have had their pulse rate decrease 40 or 50 beats per minute. The temperature of your fingers, toes, and nose helps to interpret the balance between stress and thyroid; your fingers should be less cold as your metabolic rate comes up. In extreme hypothyroidism, the hands and feet can be very cold while the oral temperature looks o.k.; then as the metabolic rate increases, the difference between fingers and mouth decreases.

    When I used only Cytomel, any little stress would make me suddenly hypothyroid, and my heart would stop several times in a minute; when I started using some thyroid, USP, that contained both T4 and T3 it stopped happening.

    Experimenters using isotopes gave large doses of thyroid until the subjects' glands were completely shut off, and when they stopped giving the doses, everyone's gland returned to normal activity in just 2 or 3 days. The gland is extremely quick to adjust its activity, both up and down, except when it's inhibited by stress, or PUFA, or estrogen, etc. [TAKING THYROID WILL HAVE LONG-TERM EFFECTS]

    The temperature rise during the day is the most important thing, since nocturnal stress hormones can give a misleading impression in the morning. Resting pulse rate is another good indicator. Milk and cheese are the best calcium sources.

    NOT RESPONDING TO THYROID

    If you are eating enough protein, about 100 grams, and salt and thyroid, then I would consider the steroids--something might be interfering with your production of pregnenolone and DHEA. Things that could do that would be very low cholesterol, or a deficiency of vitamin A (retinol), or possibly other deficiencies.

    If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene. Have you tried a supplement of pregnenolone or DHEA? Were any other hormones, such as prolactin, measured? If you are taking the aspirin regularly, you should make sure to get vitamin K, from kale, liver, or a supplement. Anemia, like cold feet, is a common sign of low thyroid function."
     
  3. Stilgar

    Stilgar Member

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    What an incredible resource. Thanks for posting.
     
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