cycling a thyroid supplement

lindsay

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Has anyone on here ever tried cycling the doses of your thyroid supplement to see if you get better results? When I first started taking Cynoplus a little over one year ago, I noticed that I felt great the first couple of months and then it sort of leveled off and some of my hypo symptoms returned. Then in August, I managed to reduce my Cynoplus dose to half what I had been taking - it was easy after having been on Thiroyd for a couple months (which basically felt like I hadn't been taking anything).

The past few days has been incredibly stressful with travel and winter and so I upped my dose again by half a grain (so from one grain to 1.5 grains of Cynoplus). I feel much better on the higher dose, but know it will level off. I don't want to just keep taking more of the stuff, as I know the T4 can be problematic. And I'm inclined to not add in T3 after the heart issues some were mentioning and the fact that it always makes me feel like I have high adrenaline.

So what I'm wondering is, could there be a good way to cycle the dose so that I continue to feel the improvements - you know, maybe take a higher dose for a week and then return to a lower dose, or something like that? It seems the body adapts to the dose and then it's no longer effective after some time (maybe this has to do with T4 in the liver?). The most immediate (and welcomed) difference I notice on the higher dose was improved digestion and bowel function - and this despite air/train travel (which always makes me feel yuck). I tend to gauge my well being based on gut function because when it's good, I feel good.
 

Suikerbuik

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Hey Lindsay, I have the same experience so I cycle thyroid hormones too. I just go by feeling. It could be several things like T4 build-up, some nutrient deficiency, down regulation of important proteins because of interference, ... . I don't have any scientific explanation, but if it works it works :).
 
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lindsay

lindsay

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Suikerbuik said:
Hey Lindsay, I have the same experience so I cycle thyroid hormones too. I just go by feeling. It could be several things like T4 build-up, some nutrient deficiency, down regulation of important proteins because of interference, ... . I don't have any scientific explanation, but if it works it works :).

Suikerbuik - that's interesting. Has it worked for you thus far? I seem to need more when I'm stressed (which the approaching winter has definitely not helped, on top of life events). I would like to limit thyroid to one grain and solve other things with diet/lifestyle, but it's so hard when digestion sucks. Thyroid only temporarily improves digestion.
 

Suikerbuik

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Little negative effects - muscle weakness, irregular heartbeat or adrenergic like things. While keeping maximum benefit such as proper digestion and energy. I don't count in grains, but I take half a cynoplus for a week and then one week only T4 alternating 25 mcg/day with some days off in between. Things like season also affect dose. (Info: I have normal-high T3, low-normal T4, and normal rT3 - suggesting no issues with conversion). T4 builds up so this allows to cycle if you do T3 only I do not suggest anyone to stop taking for a day or few days or even lower their dose without knowing what might happen.
 

BingDing

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Lindsay, I am curious why you want to limit thyroid to one grain/day. There is some sound reasoning to try and keep thyroid levels as high as possible, IIRC Ray said he likes to be slightly hyperthyroid (which I interpret to mean subclinically hyperthyroid).

I am starting to think of thyroid as more of a nutrient than a hormone. It has other functions than regulating metabolism and it's a strong part of the group of "good" compounds that oppose estrogen and the "bad" compounds.

There is a link to an article and a couple ideas along this line here.
 
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lindsay

lindsay

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BingDing said:
Lindsay, I am curious why you want to limit thyroid to one grain/day. There is some sound reasoning to try and keep thyroid levels as high as possible, IIRC Ray said he likes to be slightly hyperthyroid (which I interpret to mean subclinically hyperthyroid).

I am starting to think of thyroid as more of a nutrient than a hormone. It has other functions than regulating metabolism and it's a strong part of the group of "good" compounds that oppose estrogen and the "bad" compounds.

There is a link to an article and a couple ideas along this line here.

I still have a thyroid gland, so I don't feel I should need to take more than a small amount. But my entire endocrine system is pretty messed up, so when I asked RP about it in an email, he said to try Cynoplus. I would eventually like to come off thyroid and see if my own thyroid gland will pick up the slack, but so far, I just keep having stressful scenarios that require me using it (more recently, appendicitis and surgery). But it hasn't done the one thing I wanted it to do - bring back my cycle and stop amenorrhea. And I feel that after awhile, the body adapts to the dose and I just feel like I need more - I don't want to get into this cycle.
 

Suikerbuik

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I take half a cynoplus for a week
I see I need to make a note to avoid misunderstanding. This is for a week each day (So 3,5 tablets per week).

My advice is to use the lowest amount that you feel best with and that is sustainable. For some this is 1 grain and for other 3 grains.
 

Velve921

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Lindsay,

Any chance you would be willing to share your diet with us? Temps and HR?

Sorry you're not feeling well. Hopefully we can find some answers.
 
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lindsay

lindsay

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Ewlevy1 said:
Lindsay,

Any chance you would be willing to share your diet with us? Temps and HR?

Sorry you're not feeling well. Hopefully we can find some answers.

My diet varies according to my cravings, but consistently it includes coffee, milk, sugar (in coffee), honey, fruit & fruit juice (lots of OJ), sometimes yogurt, eggs, occasional meat/gelatin (I was vegetarian for years and gravitate more towards vegetarian foods, but I occasionally eat beef, turkey and ham); occasional shellfish (I love all shellfish - one of my favorite foods); occasional sourdough, and for the past two months I have been eating lots of hard cheese - it was the primary protein source my body was craving following appendicitis and open appendectomy. I also started eating vegetables again because they really help with preventing constipation and keep the gut clean. Lots of cooked veggies like kale, beets, tomatoes, etc. I supplement a lot of things because I hate liver (although I'm going to try it again soon). Vitamins D3, K2, progesterone, vitamin e, thyroid.

I definitely struggle with getting adequate calories - prior to starting a Peat inspired way of eating, I had a large ovarian tumor that interfered with my digestion and I lost a lot of weight. After having it removed, I changed my diet and gained about 20 lbs. eating only around 2,000 calories per day, maybe even less than that. My body has been hormonally out of whack since my oophorectomy and it doesn't seem to matter how I eat or what I do - the only thing that ever helps is taking more thyroid, but I don't feel this is the best answer to everything and it certainly makes my doctors suspicious when I go in for blood tests, etc. I am currently taking 1.5 grains of Cynoplus. Oh yes, another difficulty I forgot to mention is that I have no gallbladder - this really impairs my digestion - another reason that eating adequately is difficult for me. My digestion is always bad, unless I take more thyroid and even then, effects are temporary. Someone put me onto the idea of Ox bile - I'm going to give that a whirl.
 

SQu

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Lindsay you mentioned an email to RP. Did you also read the RP email advice thread? I was very cautious about thyroid because of all the stories one reads. So I followed that as close as I could and it has worked well. Not perfectly but very well. I don't know if heart concerns or any other particular health issues you may have would invalidate anything there. But re T3 and adrenalin, the tiny, frequent doses recommended only raised my adrenalin for a while and I quickly settled. I can't take much T4 at all - within days it builds up and makes me more hypo. I think that's why natural thyroid supps never worked for me before. For me, more T3 and only a little T4 is the right combination and had to be adjusted which you can't do with a combined or natural supp, but is maybe one reason why some people do cycle these supps. Pulse-taking was a big help when adjusting.
 
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lindsay

lindsay

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sueq said:
Lindsay you mentioned an email to RP. Did you also read the RP email advice thread? I was very cautious about thyroid because of all the stories one reads. So I followed that as close as I could and it has worked well. Not perfectly but very well. I don't know if heart concerns or any other particular health issues you may have would invalidate anything there. But re T3 and adrenalin, the tiny, frequent doses recommended only raised my adrenalin for a while and I quickly settled. I can't take much T4 at all - within days it builds up and makes me more hypo. I think that's why natural thyroid supps never worked for me before. For me, more T3 and only a little T4 is the right combination and had to be adjusted which you can't do with a combined or natural supp, but is maybe one reason why some people do cycle these supps. Pulse-taking was a big help when adjusting.

Sueq - pardon my asking, but are you female?? I know it's common for T4 to be problematic with females. I will go through the RP email advice thread, but he specifically mentioned Cynoplus to me - probably due to my absent cycle. I guess maybe I need the T4 to down regulate TSH? My numbers budged slightly after a couple months taking 2 grains of Cynoplus, but I haven't had a blood test since then because I have to pay out of pocket for everything until I reach my deductible. I tried taking cytomel along with Cynoplus, but it makes me really jittery - which is weird because I can drink coffee all day without feeling that way. How much T3 are you taking in relation to T4?? I upped my Cynoplus dose a week ago and it made an immediate difference on water retention. I thought I had been gaining weight (estrogen dominance weight), but it kind of just melted right off with the additional 1/2 grain, but I know in a month or so, my body will adjust to that and I will be back at square one. Maybe I need to investigate more into the T3 because the T4 build up definitely has it's negative side effects.
 

SQu

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Maybe my experience is not going to be relevant though I am female and my TSH has dropped since starting thyroid and I do take some T4. When checked 7 months after starting, it had dropped to 1.57 from 4.3 (a figure which at least- finally- got me a prescription out of the doctor!).
About the dose - I worked up slowly, very slowly, to 35-40mcg T3 - 5mcg every two hours and approx. 12mcg T4 at bedtime with my last T3 dose. Plus I started with the tiniest amounts I could split a pill into - 1 or 2 mcg at a time.
But I think it's important to say, my background is different. I never lost my cycle though I did have PMS and other high estrogen signs such as erratic period and clotting. And I'm older than you - 50. But my cycle was always like clockwork up till a year or two ago when a stupid low carb decision to add a tiny amount of soya flour to thicken sauces threw it out, never quite to return (though almost). Obviously I was walking a fine line with estrogen overload and this tipped me over. My jitters on starting T3 were bad only for a short while, therefore tolerable. If yours aren't then I don't know but maybe that approach isn't for you. I know from reading other threads that some people's adrenalin is in another league and their experiences overall are very different to mine. Likewise I have never had surgery.
It sounds like thyroid is promising for you but the dose is probably key. I hope you get something at least out of reading that advice. Best of luck!

PS I had a thread on my experiences especially in the early days, and lots of great advice was given and some good extracts too so maybe this will help. I'm going to reread the whole thing really soon for some perspective. Should really have done so before even posting here. Hope it helps at least a bit:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3472#p41017
 
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lindsay

lindsay

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sueq said:
Maybe my experience is not going to be relevant though I am female and my TSH has dropped since starting thyroid and I do take some T4. When checked 7 months after starting, it had dropped to 1.57 from 4.3 (a figure which at least- finally- got me a prescription out of the doctor!).
About the dose - I worked up slowly, very slowly, to 35-40mcg T3 - 5mcg every two hours and approx. 12mcg T4 at bedtime with my last T3 dose. Plus I started with the tiniest amounts I could split a pill into - 1 or 2 mcg at a time.
But I think it's important to say, my background is different. I never lost my cycle though I did have PMS and other high estrogen signs such as erratic period and clotting. And I'm older than you - 50. But my cycle was always like clockwork up till a year or two ago when a stupid low carb decision to add a tiny amount of soya flour to thicken sauces threw it out, never quite to return (though almost). Obviously I was walking a fine line with estrogen overload and this tipped me over. My jitters on starting T3 were bad only for a short while, therefore tolerable. If yours aren't then I don't know but maybe that approach isn't for you. I know from reading other threads that some people's adrenalin is in another league and their experiences overall are very different to mine. Likewise I have never had surgery.
It sounds like thyroid is promising for you but the dose is probably key. I hope you get something at least out of reading that advice. Best of luck!

PS I had a thread on my experiences especially in the early days, and lots of great advice was given and some good extracts too so maybe this will help. I'm going to reread the whole thing really soon for some perspective. Should really have done so before even posting here. Hope it helps at least a bit:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3472#p41017

Thanks for this info. Sueq. I started looking through the thread - it seems most people are echoing RP in that too much T4 can be problematic. Which is why I'm taking Cynoplus (a T4/T3 combo, but at a ratio of 4:1). Part of the reason I needed to up my dose, I think, is because winter is creeping in. But I will try adding a few more micrograms of T3 and see how it goes. What about coffee? I drink really robust coffee (almost espresso strength) - could that replace T3? If so, what might the equivalent be??
 

SQu

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I don't know about the coffee, sorry. I drink as much as I can/want to and that's as far as I can go with it. If it was doing the whole job then presumably you wouldn't feel the need to change thyroid dose. But if you're loving it and not sated on it perhaps you could have more and see.
The ratio that worked and that I slowly worked up to, by taking a bit less T4 each time I started to feel bad again, is about 3 or almost 4 T3 to 1 of T4. So it's very individual.
 

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