Looking For Steroid Abusers; Progesterone Therapy

[Dhair]

I'm not trying to be an ***hole here but trying to keep an interesting discussion going, so, I'll repeat @Dhair 's question:

Doctors make all kinds of unscientific proclamations about various imagined mechanistic processes that take place in the human body. Something tells me we won't get a satisfying answer...

 

[TreasureVibe]

Relax people, everyone makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect. Perhaps I misunderstood the words RisingSun said. All I am trying to figure out is wether estrogen can accumulate in tissue, as Dr. Peat said it did, as he stated progesterone removes it from tissue. It would be very meaningful to me, as I am a steroid abuser, possibly with big quantities of accumulated estrogen in the tissue, converted from the synthetic testosterone.

This means that in persons with normal hormonal make-ups, this removal effect by progesterone won't be as pronounced, or even present at all, possibly. Hence some men stating they did not feel the supposed estrogen removal effect from progesterone. That, and perhaps their livers were possibly compromised.

I must attest that since my colon flush, I notice much better mood, and a sense of wellbeing. Much less edgy than average people I come across. Colon flushes are controversial, but there is the possibility that my liver got working again because of the colon cleanse. Hence my liver clearing effects feeling more succesful (presumably) than the average person. Not saying it did, and I don't endorse them, but I am just throwing things out here to see if it makes sense to a more knowledgeable person than me.

 

[A.R]

Relax people, everyone makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect. Perhaps I misunderstood the words RisingSun said. All I am trying to figure out is wether estrogen can accumulate in tissue, as Dr. Peat said it did, as he stated progesterone removes it from tissue. It would be very meaningful to me, as I am a steroid abuser, possibly with big quantities of accumulated estrogen in the tissue, converted from the synthetic testosterone.

This means that in persons with normal hormonal make-ups, this removal effect by progesterone won't be as pronounced, or even present at all, possibly. Hence some men stating they did not feel the supposed estrogen removal effect from progesterone. That, and perhaps their livers were possibly compromised.

I must attest that since my colon flush, I notice much better mood, and a sense of wellbeing. Much less edgy than average people I come across. Colon flushes are controversial, but there is the possibility that my liver got working again because of the colon cleanse. Hence my liver clearing effects feeling more succesful (presumably) than the average person. Not saying it did, and I don't endorse them, but I am just throwing things out here to see if it makes sense to a more knowledgeable person than me.

Since you've come off this steroid cycle, has Your body composition changed in any way (i.e. is your skin more firm or loose)

I think having loose jelly ish skin (skinnyfat) shows estrogen in tissues

 

[TreasureVibe]

Since you've come off this steroid cycle, has Your body composition changed in any way (i.e. is your skin more firm or loose)

I think having loose jelly ish skin (skinnyfat) shows estrogen in tissues

Skin is indeed loose-ish, jelly ish, more loose, as you describe since coming off the steroid cycle Wow. Will Progest-E get rid of it?

 

[benaoao]

a very simple question - when did you come off this cycle?

you might be suppressed or barely recovering still. Not a huge deal, although I'd use tamoxifen at 5 up to 10mg twice a week. Your doctor (you're in Canada?) would definitely prescribe at least an LH+FSH+Testosterone test to gauge the recovery, wouldn't he?

I think that zinc could also be helpful. Vitamin E, and other peaty substances that should be pro-thyroid, anti-estrogen (tamoxifen is potent though so careful), pro-T. Good luck

 

[TreasureVibe]

a very simple question - when did you come off this cycle?

you might be suppressed or barely recovering still. Not a huge deal, although I'd use tamoxifen at 5 up to 10mg twice a week. Your doctor (you're in Canada?) would definitely prescribe at least an LH+FSH+Testosterone test to gauge the recovery, wouldn't he?

I think that zinc could also be helpful. Vitamin E, and other peaty substances that should be pro-thyroid, anti-estrogen (tamoxifen is potent though so careful), pro-T. Good luck

It's been roughly 3 years now actually but I still don't feel quite optimal. Thanks for the support, I am in the Netherlands, and yeah I might consider a blood panel... Might buy a private one. Will consider the nutrients you've mentioned.

 

[Jpkoepse]

It's been roughly 3 years now actually but I still don't feel quite optimal. Thanks for the support, I am in the Netherlands, and yeah I might consider a blood panel... Might buy a private one. Will consider the nutrients you've mentioned.

As someone who has a lot of experience with this and seen many others use them, I don't think "steroids" has much of anything to do with your current state if it's been 3 years and your cycle was only a few weeks long. Highly recommend you get a thorough blood panel done so you aren't shooting in the dark. Best of luck!

 

[TreasureVibe]

As someone who has a lot of experience with this and seen many others use them, I don't think "steroids" has much of anything to do with your current state if it's been 3 years and your cycle was only a few weeks long. Highly recommend you get a thorough blood panel done so you aren't shooting in the dark. Best of luck!

Thanks for the support, note though, I have almost not exercised nor moved much in those 3 years, and smoked during the cycle and for a year after, and also ate too few. So although alot of stuff has changed, I don't doubt that some of that synthetic crap, converted to estrogen is still sitting in my body somewhere. I'm going to make a working plan to treat this once and for all. Thanks once more for the support!

 

[A.R]

Skin is indeed loose-ish, jelly ish, more loose, as you describe since coming off the steroid cycle Wow. Will Progest-E get rid of it?

You have similar problem to me - sluggish weak liver. Progesterone is a tricky one, though tbh I haven't consistently been dosing it.

Things that are a must though imo as a foundation to healing the liver
- good quality topical fat solubles
- calcium/magnesium/zinc
BCAA powder
Avoiding pufa as much as possible
Staying away from all pharma drugs - these will just clog the liver more
Light exercise. Bike riding. Light weights etc

 

[Luckytype]

What is the mechanism of this "flushing" and "renewing" process? Have you read any of Ray Peat's work?

What I think he is saying is the turnover of them(each molecule), they only last so long in a system. They are replaced but thats not to say the same amounts exist for an extended period in a given area. Hormones act, then are degraded and replaced. So its basically interupting the communication of receptors and enzymatic reactions that take place that keep the levels higher in tissues. Diet, easy exercise, supplementation and if abbbbbsolutely needed pharm intervention.

 

[vulture]

You have similar problem to me - sluggish weak liver. Progesterone is a tricky one, though tbh I haven't consistently been dosing it.

Things that are a must though imo as a foundation to healing the liver
- good quality topical fat solubles
- calcium/magnesium/zinc
BCAA powder
Avoiding pufa as much as possible
Staying away from all pharma drugs - these will just clog the liver more
Light exercise. Bike riding. Light weights etc

What do you mean by good quality topical fat solubles?

 

[RisingSun]

Clomid is an estrogen agonist in some tissues. Agonist isn't to say it is exactly an estrogen, as it is a synthetic molecule.

And its property is to attach to some tissues long enough to exert its intended functions. Unlike estrogens that will eventually get flushed.

So no contradiction in my writing, on one side I am describing the mechanism of action of actual estrogens, on the other the mechanism of action of a synthetic molecule intended to mimic estrogens but that obviously doesn't share all estrogens properties and pharmcokinetics.

Hope it's clear

 

[A.R]

What do you mean by good quality topical fat solubles?

By good quality I mean rather than buying cheap pills, it's better to buy the vitamins dissolved in oil as drops etc - and I've personally felt most benefit from using the fat solubles topically (rather than taken orally which causes gut irritation for me) rubbed on arms/stomach/legs

 

[skycop00]

The E2 "sitting there in your tissues" is a false theory that you made for yourself and started believing in to explain how you feel after discontinuing AAS.

To begin with, there was a lot of T in your tissues at the time of injection which was compensating just fine with the increased E2 that ensued.

Second, upon AAS discontinuation, all hormones are being recycled and flushed, none is "sitting there" and waiting to be flushed by yet another medication.


I would suggest to draw bloods and see were all your serum values sit at.

Get serum draws and when ordering E2 order the SENSITIVE Estradiol, Shbg, Free and Bound T, Prl at a minimum. DHT is a nice marker as well!