Long-Haul Covid Advice

[Blue Water]

Having been exposed to covid several months ago have you been vaccinated and what are your thoughts on the vaccine leading to prion disease?

Thank You

Not vaccinated. I don't know about prion disease, I did read a study or two that seemed to suggest it was a possibility. I wouldn't take the vaccine though regardless, for other reasons it seems too risky.

 

[Davsey85]

I have concerns myself.I have heard the delta variant can take out people who are not overweight,obese otherwise healthy and in places like Alabama where patients begged for the vaccine as they were dying.

On the other hand you hear some stories of people dying from the vaccine which seems less likely but you never know.

If delta can take one out then maybe the long term effect of the vaccine may not matter and perhaps the vaccine may be worth it.I really don't know.I got it in December and the first couple nights were scary most docs say antibodies only last a few months but others say memory cells last longer

 

[Doc Sandoz]

I have concerns myself.I have heard the delta variant can take out people who are not overweight,obese otherwise healthy and in places like Alabama where patients begged for the vaccine as they were dying.

On the other hand you hear some stories of people dying from the vaccine which seems less likely but you never know.

If delta can take one out then maybe the long term effect of the vaccine may not matter and perhaps the vaccine may be worth it.I really don't know.I got it in December and the first couple nights were scary most docs say antibodies only last a few months but others say memory cells last longer

CONJOB-21: Why Everything You’re Being Told About the “Delta Variant” is Complete Nonsense

In order to keep fanning the flames of COVID hysteria, governments and their mainstream media allies are making much ado of the new 'Delta' variant. We are being told ad nauseum that the Delta strain is more virulent and deadlier than previous strains of COVID-19. And - surprise, surprise - the...

anthonycolpo.com

 

[Blue Water]

Covid-19, neurological issues, and Coffee: Need Help

Another thread I started. I'm sharing it because it has some crossover with this thread. To update, ivermectin helped me in many ways but unfortunately, still dealing with neurological side effects. The thread above concerns a weird problem I now have with coffee.

 

[Davsey85]

Covid-19, neurological issues, and Coffee: Need Help

Another thread I started. I'm sharing it because it has some crossover with this thread. To update, ivermectin helped me in many ways but unfortunately, still dealing with neurological side effects. The thread above concerns a weird problem I now have with coffee.

Whats the ivermectin dosage you took Don?

 

[Blue Water]

Whats the ivermectin dosage you took Don?

Somewhere between 12-18mg, for five days. Was using horse paste so had to guess a bit.

 

[Davsey85]

Somewhere between 12-18mg, for five days. Was using horse paste so had to guess a bit.

I have got the rx from america front line physicians for 90 tablets of Ivermectin and 5 tablets of Azithromycin..

I ordered 10 ivermectin tablets to sample to see if I could tolerate the refills.3mg each.Cost me like 170 for 10 ivermectins and 5 Azithromycins.Eexpensive

Is there a way to start low and go slow to test it out?

 

[Blue Water]

I have got the rx from america front line physicians for 90 tablets of Ivermectin and 5 tablets of Azithromycin..

I ordered 10 ivermectin tablets to sample to see if I could tolerate the refills.3mg each.Cost me like 170 for 10 ivermectins and 5 Azithromycins.Eexpensive

Is there a way to start low and go slow to test it out?

Why do you think you won't tolerate it? If taking it for Covid, take 0.2-0.4 mg/kg once per day. If you are worried about sides start with 0.2. And for Covid they say to take with food to increase bioavailability. Ivermectin is generally very well tolerated, just be careful if you have river blindness or parasites in your brain (probably you don't have that), or you take many other medications concurrently, such as SSRI's, which I believe interact. There may be other drugs that interact with ivermectin so be sure to check. I think some antivirals interact. But basically, from what I read, you won't get sides unless those two conditions are present, or you take way too much.

 

[Davsey85]

Why do you think you won't tolerate it? If taking it for Covid, take 0.2-0.4 mg/kg once per day. If you are worried about sides start with 0.2. And for Covid they say to take with food to increase bioavailability. Ivermectin is generally very well tolerated, just be careful if you have river blindness or parasites in your brain (probably you don't have that), or you take many other medications concurrently, such as SSRI's, which I believe interact. There may be other drugs that interact with ivermectin so be sure to check. I think some antivirals interact. But basically, from what I read, you won't get sides unless those two conditions are present, or you take way too much.

I was instructed to take 5 tablets at 15mg

As someone who is sensitive to meds in general and concerned about side effects like nausea,vomiting, seizures I thought what about taking 3mg one day then adding on 3mg the next day and another 3mg day after to minimize side effects?

 

[Blue Water]

I was instructed to take 5 tablets at 15mg

As someone who is sensitive to meds in general and concerned about side effects like nausea,vomiting, seizures I thought what about taking 3mg one day then adding on 3mg the next day and another 3mg day after to minimize side effects?

You can do that. Ivermectin has a pretty long half life, of like 12 hours or something, and stays in the body for about three days I believe, yet it's biological effects can persist up to a month. It remains in the fat tissues, so it does build up.

Ivermectin does not cross the blood brain barrier, so the chances of you have seizures are almost zero. My advice would be to go for building up a tolerance if it makes you feel better, but if you have Covid now, then I wouldn't mess around. I'd take the normal prescribed dose. If you are taking ivermectin for prophylactic reasons then I would say your protocol is fine. I actually had taken ivermectin the week prior to getting sick. It didn't help prevent covid, unfortunately.

 

[Davsey85]

You can do that. Ivermectin has a pretty long half life, of like 12 hours or something, and stays in the body for about three days I believe, yet it's biological effects can persist up to a month. It remains in the fat tissues, so it does build up.

Ivermectin does not cross the blood brain barrier, so the chances of you have seizures are almost zero. I would say, go for building up a tolerance if it makes you feel better, but if you have Covid now, then don't mess around. Take a normal dose that is prescribed and treat it aggressively. If you are taking ivermectin for prophylactic reasons then I would say your protocol is fine. I actually had taken ivermectin the week prior to getting sick. It didn't help prevent covid, unfortunately.

Thanks Don,

When you took 12-18mg prior to getting sick for prevention would you say taking it the week prior prevented a severe infection?

 

[Blue Water]

Thanks Don,

When you took 12-18mg prior to getting sick for prevention would you say taking it the week prior prevented a severe infection?

Not at all, that's the weird thing, it was just as bad as when I had gotten it before. What saved me this time from having more severe illness and complications was ivermectin during the acute phase of the disease. Taking ivermectin for those first five days pretty much cleared up my lungs within a week or two. The only thing it didn't do was prevent neurological effects, because ivermectin can't get into the brain and CNS (which is a good thing otherwise it would be toxic itself to the brain).

So ivermectin was very successful in some ways. I feel it is a very good treatment, but not perfect. I think if you added something that crosses the BBB in the early phase of the disease it would be even more effective (nicotine, vitamin C, niacin?? Not sure).

 

[Davsey85]

I was exposed to covid in decemebr 2020 and I just did an antibodys igg and it came back negative.Adaptive technologies Tcell antibody came back negative as well

 

[haidut]

Hey everyone,

I got long haul Covid last year starting around February 2020. Didn't know it was Covid at the time because it was so early so I did not treat it, and that was the downfall, because I was sick for seven months with symptoms after that. Now the data is coming out from FLCCC and other doctors like Bruce Patterson, Hoffe, etc., that ivermectin is key. The interesting thing has been Patterson's idea about how Covid affects the monocytes and causes permanent disturbance in the immune system by essentially deranging them (making them non-classical, they exhibit the spike protein 2 antigen, they swim all over the body attacking endothelial cells including in the brain, and they last for 15+ months at times before body clears them), thus causing basically blood vessel scarring, hypertension, strokes, heart failure, etc. you name it. He equates this to similar situations in MS, Lyme, and other post-viral disorders. It seems like Covid might actually bring about huge leaps in scientific understanding. Interesting how the world works....

Given that we now know the virus as well as vaccine can cause the DNA to express viral proteins, I am going to just assume that we are producing low-levels of spike protein at all times, which will permanently damage the immune system by creating these Non classical monocytes that are going to damage blood vessels.

So I want to get the forum's input, what is a good protocol for anyone who has gotten Covid, or gotten the vaccine, going forward? Should we take statins every few months? That seems ridiculous. Maybe just cycle in some hydrogen peroxide/mega dose vitamin C to repolarize or cause apoptosis to the monocytes, and add in omega 3's to prevent monocyte adherence to the blood vessel walls? We could add in Quercitin daily and Ivermectin monthly as well. I'm just not sure whether to add in statins, or if there is a better alternative here to cause monocyte apoptosis. I did hear nicotine is another option but again not something I'd like to be using all the time. Dr. Patterson has been using an anti-HIV drug CCR5 antagonist as well, but I couldn't find anything related to this that I could take that is safe and accessible.

FLCCC long haul covid protocol is:

Ivermectin + MACROPHAGE/MONOCYTE REPOLARIZATION THERAPY

(Vitamin C — 500 mg twice daily

Omega-3 Fatty Acids — 4 gm/daily (Vascepa, Lovaza, or DHA/EPA)

Atorvastatin — 40 mg daily

Melatonin — 2–10 mg nightly, start with low dose, increase as tolerated in absence of sleep disturbance.

Vitamin D3 — 2,000–4,000 IU daily)

Any other advice?

Possibly relevant.

Both "long" COVID-19 and CFS are likely caused by hypometabolism

A good study that examines the remarkable parallels between the so-called "long" COVID-19 (i.e. chronic display of symptoms associated with COVID-19) and the (in)famous chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). Namely, increases inflammation, excessive glycolysis, suppressed mitochondrial function and...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Birdie]

My husband sent me this article. As I was reading it I had to admit it looks like I have it. I had Covid symptoms last October but used The Zelenko HCQ Protocol. Mild case. I don't have the energy to read the whole thread right now but I will. Maybe this hasn't been posted yet:

COVID-19 Long-Haulers Are Fighting for Their Future - The Atlantic

Long-Haulers Are Fighting for Their Future

 

[Doc Sandoz]

My husband sent me this article. As I was reading it I had to admit it looks like I have it. I had Covid symptoms last October but used The Zelenko HCQ Protocol. Mild case. I don't have the energy to read the whole thread right now but I will. Maybe this hasn't been posted yet:

COVID-19 Long-Haulers Are Fighting for Their Future - The Atlantic

I can check off about 20 of these symptoms. The 98 Long-Term COVID Symptoms You Need to Know About

In addition to a number of more generalized symptoms like brain fog and tiredness, bizarre inflammatory issues were/are issues in my case. One foot swelled up and became extremely painful, the pain and swelling moving around the foot for about six weeks before it subsided. I've had gout before and tendonitis, but those were nothing like this wandering malady. It started soon after I began taking an ACE inhibitor which I immediately quit. I still have some aches and pains sometimes months later. I think this thing was caused by microclotting. Better in the foot than elsewhere I suppose.

The other is a case of burning mouth syndrome that started about three months before the foot thing. It involved a strange pain above one molar - almost like a loose tooth which it was not - which alternated or coincided with a burning sensation on my palate. I used lidocaine to treat it. That syndrome waxed and waned, slowly improving over the last six months.

Strangely enough i did not have any of the usual symptoms like loss of smell/taste (doesn't everyone lose these when they have a common cold? - I always have) etc when I got the initial infection. Just a month or so of feeling rather poorly with strange, ever-changing but relatively mild symptoms around May 2020.

 

[Birdie]

Possibly relevant.

Both "long" COVID-19 and CFS are likely caused by hypometabolism

A good study that examines the remarkable parallels between the so-called "long" COVID-19 (i.e. chronic display of symptoms associated with COVID-19) and the (in)famous chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). Namely, increases inflammation, excessive glycolysis, suppressed mitochondrial function and...

raypeatforum.com

You know I had just glanced at this when haidut first put it up, but it took the mainstream untechnical article to wake me up. Thank you @haidut .

 

[Birdie]

I can check off about 20 of these symptoms. The 98 Long-Term COVID Symptoms You Need to Know About

In addition to a number of more generalized symptoms like brain fog and tiredness, bizarre inflammatory issues were/are issues in my case. One foot swelled up and became extremely painful, the pain and swelling moving around the foot for about six weeks before it subsided. I've had gout before and tendonitis, but those were nothing like this wandering malady. It started soon after I began taking an ACE inhibitor which I immediately quit. I still have some aches and pains sometimes months later. I think this thing was caused by microclotting. Better in the foot than elsewhere I suppose.

The other is a case of burning mouth syndrome that started about three months before the foot thing. It involved a strange pain above one molar - almost like a loose tooth which it was not - which alternated or coincided with a burning sensation on my palate. I used lidocaine to treat it. That syndrome waxed and waned, slowly improving over the last six months.

Strangely enough i did not have any of the usual symptoms like loss of smell/taste (doesn't everyone lose these when they have a common cold? - I always have) etc when I got the initial infection. Just a month or so of feeling rather poorly with strange, ever-changing but relatively mild symptoms around May 2020.

Similar in a way to your foot, I've had 5 weeks of sciatica. In the past, I always got over it within a few days. My symptoms include: frequent episodes of nausea, low blood pressure, extra sleeping, pressure in the head and a few of the others in your article Doc. Thanks

 

[RealNeat]

There is also a difference of course between someone currently suffering from long-haul covid and someone who "recovered." For someone within the sphere of long haul, they might want to consider things like fluvoxamine, arvostatin, and the HIV drugs. I don't know. However, for the majority it's about maintaining low monocyte reservoirs over time and killing virus over time. I agree we should consider things that we can rotate to avoid resistance, and I also believe that safety is obviously high priority. So HCQ is a good option for maybe people who are at high risk from Covid or working in healthcare, or who are in the middle of long haul, I wouldn't want to take it personally. IVM is safe and I am incorporating it into a one-time dose per month, using quercitin daily.

As for H1/H2, can you explain more about this, is it 'treatment' for long haul?

NAC would be great to add in, as would fisetin. Anything that attacks the spike protein is going to be useful, falling into the IVM camp.

The trickiest part of this is finding convenient ways to cause apoptosis in monocytes, or repolarize them, from non-classical back to classic monocytes that die in weeks. One thing that just crossed my mind is phlebotomy. It may be another tool to consider as a form of chelating the blood of these poisons.

Have you considered or done everything Ray Peat has said over the last 1.5 years? I don't really see you mentioning any of those things like Cinanserin, Losartan, Progesterone and the like. I would go with those things before anything else because Peat considereds things not just for the current predicament but for the benefit of the organism as a whole. For example people really like to tout HCQ and Ivermectin but they are not substances that reinforce the biology of the body in the right direction outside of the "COVID" context and that's a maybe.

 

[RealNeat]

I was reading study after study about how infection would produce basically life-long immunity...well, I just found out I have Delta variant and it's basically the same as Covid round 1! This time around, however, I have been actually able to treat effectively with ivermectin, so I'm crossing my fingers and praying I don't get long covid like last time.

It sounds like for long-haul treatment, one of the most effective treatments is vitamin C, as it repolarizes affected monocytes. Was watching Dr. Been's lectures on this earlier. He also recommends fluvoxamine, a sigma 1 receptor agonist and SSRI. I was doing some basic searches and found that berberine is a sigma 1 receptor positive modulator that has anti-depressant like effects. Could be a useful 'natural' alternative to fluvoxamine. Finally, going through some of Nemo's old posts about andrographis, I did some research and it shows it also might bind to the S protein. This

Possibly relevant.

Both "long" COVID-19 and CFS are likely caused by hypometabolism

A good study that examines the remarkable parallels between the so-called "long" COVID-19 (i.e. chronic display of symptoms associated with COVID-19) and the (in)famous chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). Namely, increases inflammation, excessive glycolysis, suppressed mitochondrial function and...

raypeatforum.com

My point exactly. Since this is the Ray Peat forum, I feel it makes most sense to approach this from a metabolic perspective rather than a conjecture filled dissection of the individual parts. When listening to Ray or reading his articles one sees a pattern quite reliably, address the energetic state of the body, if its low, bring it back up, and that's a priority. The same substances and foods are mentioned over and over again, it's not redundancy out of Peat's boredom, it's because it's foundational.