COVID Long Hauler for 7 months, need help

863127

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
200
@nejdev
@AdoTintor

Cinchona?


General info, dosing, example of what to buy:




HCQ vs quinine bark



Risks of using the bark:



About the binding affinities of plant chemicals that bind to the ACE2 receptor, details of black cumin seed chemical composition, blood brain barrier permeability of chemicals in black cumin seed oil and effects on protein receptors that affect neurodegeneration








Comparing practicality and reliability of black cumin seed oil, cinchona bark, HCQ, and chloroquine; also comparisons of binding affinities of Ivermectin, HCQ, and chloroquine:



Quinine and HCQ have different half-lives so how to dose an amount of quinine in cinchona bark similarly to Zelenko's prophylaxis protocol HCQ doses; risks of cinchona bark compared to synthetic derivatives



A picture of 2 grams of cinchona bark so people who don't have a scale can eyeball their dose estimate better than I did (so they don't get cinchonism symptoms)



Uncertainties of mine about how to compare Zelenko's recommended HCQ doses with safe cinchona bark doses, considering that cinchona bark has lots of other chemicals in it that interact with the quinine effects


____________________________


Conversation between AdoTintor and I...

Ado:
Hi 863127, how are your the experiments with cinchona bark going?

I was looking at your calculations. You can do an infinite sum for the quinine dose and there is a formula for this. So if you imagine dosing an amount q every 12 hours you will have in blood: total=q+qa+qa^2+qa^3+qa^4+.....=q/(1-a), where "a" is the fraction remaining after 12 hours which in this case is 0.5 as it is the halflife. Hence Total=2*q. Hence to get 1000mg you need to dose 500mg every 12 hours which is what you got, inelegantly :)

I need to have 1000mg in my blood for one encounter (lecture) per week. So potentially I could simply dose up in the morning with two 500mg teas, ie 20g of bark. Not sure about the merits of that - although I see that the capsule dose the recommend for adults is about 600mg in one dose. I guess I will not know if my bark is 5%

I am just trying 2g of bark tea and its pretty hard to drink - have you done the 10g tea? By the way do you know a good source that will send to UK?
Ado


Me:
So you have a scale you're weighing 2 grams with? Will you put a quarter or lighter or something next to it and take a picture?I haven't been using cinchona bark much because I've been using Ivermectin and other herbs and keep forgetting to buy a scale so I can try cinchona better. When I got the bark, I used about the same amount of it I would usually use of other strong "herbs" (denser parts of the plant like seeds or bark) when I'm making a quart of tea, because I didn't have a scale. I got cinchonism symptoms from that, starting within about a half hour and not starting to lessen much until at least three or four days later.

One thing that I'm not sure of the importance of when figuring out dosing cinchona compared to isolated quinine or HCQ is the other chemicals in cinchona maybe supporting, complementing, preparing the biochemical context, somehow making the quinine in the bark effectively like more of an isolated dose. Maybe that's why traditional use is an amount that would be ~100-300 mg quinine per cup and two or three cups a day, so not 1000 mg ingested per day, and not 1000 mg being maintained in the blood. But maybe the dosage for spike proteins should be a high dose of quinine even when it's with the supporting other chemicals, and so a problem with using cinchona for that, instead of isolated quinine/HCQ, would be the increased risk of cinchonism symptoms, because the effective potentizing of the quinine and/or other chemicals.

2 g is hard to drink because the taste? You're not getting any mild but noticeable symptoms from that amount? About that and the previous paragraph -- maybe for using it against the spike proteins (and maybe even moreso for the modified vaccine proteins?), it'll be a narrow range between a thoroughly effective enough dose and a dose that causes cinchonism symptoms (and those can take months to get completely better) so that dosage experimentation could be an important thing to be more careful about with cinchona compared to isolated quinine/HCQ?

Here's a business in the UK that sells cinchona bark:


Ado:
I read most of your posts and saw your report about cinchonism symptoms and have been very careful. Only been trying 2g in a tea and taking it each day for last 3 days. BTW I just boil it for 15 mins? I got no symptoms and yes it tastes bitter but am used to it. Never tried 10g but can only imagine the taste will be truly awful.

The dosage is really unclear because you are right that there may be other stuff - and the collective coverage is not just 100mg quinine but also 100mg of X, Y, Z. I will try the bark option and see if I feel terrible after the first lecture. Immediately take IVM if so. I suppose I should not take HCQ at that point is qininine is still high - all these unknowns.

I took 2 days of IVM and the 5 days of HCQ. I didnt like the feeling - felt like it put a whole in my head for a bit. And I think got a lot of shedding (hair!) - you get that? So want to try something else. At moment the H1+H2 and olive leaf tea, adndrographis, D2, quercetin seems to feel good and protect me when shopping etc


Ado:
I forgot to say that there is a haidut quote on the forum that basically says HCQ is big pharmas more toxic version of quinine. That was the game changer for me.



Me:
I didn't know anything about quinine or HCQ until this stuff recently. But that just makes me think that if I had a choice between isolated quinine or HCQ then now I'd consider the quinine more than before reading that. But there's still the issue of all the other stuff in the cinchona bark and how it interacts when drinking the tea regularly for prevention.

I mean I'm doubtful about HCQ's toxicity complicating using either for prophylaxis more than the other stuff in cinchona bark complicating it. On the other hand, the other chemicals in cinchona bark help the quinine some ways. So maybe the question becomes what dose of quinine from cinchona bark, with the other stuff, is equivalent to a dose of HCQ. Maybe when I did the half life dosing schedule for 500 mg, assuming it should be the same milligrams in the blood of quinine as Zelenko recommends for HCQ, maybe that's not a good assumption. Maybe it should be less.


Ado:
Before I had read that comment I didnt even know there was a connection between HCQ and quinine, and I was only interested in HCQ. After that I really became interested in the idea of quinine.

Is chinchism from pure quinine overdose or the other things in the bark? If we put the dose of bark up so that we get 1000mg of quinine could end up getting chinchism from the other things in the bark? Hmm. It would be good to find out more on standard (tribal) usage


Me:
Yeah I learned about quinine pretty much the same approach. And yeah I should try to find a good resource, maybe from around mid-20th century when cinchona vs synthetics was important, reviewing traditional uses of cinchona. I found an interesting report from the late 1800s about cinchonism:

(from this post: Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that )


"Some full papers about cinchonism:

This is an interesting one, from when cinchona bark was commonly used as a tea for quinine:
Some of the Graver and Rarer Forms of Cinchonism by I.E. Atkinson, 1889


Ado:
from the last paper it looks like it is directly from quinine, as they are only giving quinine grains. Can we get grains of pure quinine?


Me:
Oh. I only skimmed it.
I searched "buy quinine grains" and found stuff from museums and historians. I read this article:


and it says:
1 grain = 0.06479891 grams

So as long as what we get nowadays in a tablet or pill or whatever is quinine sulphate, I think that conversion's all we need to know about the grains to compare with currently available isolated quinine?


Ado:
ok - so you could try QS and see if you get symptoms from the pure form. I think I remember two tablets was 600mg the stated dose - then I can be sure to be almost near the 1000mg.
Really I have no way of knowing anything of bark quality.

But I suppose the real issue is that we are matching 1000mg of HCQ in blood as being equivalent to 1000mg of qinine? This is not necessarily going to be the same as HCQ is a derivative of qininine. For example if qinine turns into 50% HCQ then....


Me:
I was looking for common quinine sulphate dosages and found this -- lots of details of contraindications and things to consider depending on a person's disease conditions when using it.



I also found this...


"...This medication is used to kill the malaria parasites living inside red blood cells. In some cases, you may need to take a different medication (such as primaquine ) to kill the malaria parasites living in other body tissues. Both drugs [quinine and primaquine] may be needed for a complete cure and to prevent the return of infection (relapse)..."


And I thought primaquine was one of the chemicals in cinchona bark, but it's not.


(showing these again)
"The main plant chemicals found in quinine [cinchona] bark include: aricine, caffeic acid, cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine, cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine, conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine, epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine, quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic acid, quinovin, and sucirubine."



Primequine's a synthetic 8-aminoquinoline derivative.


"Primaquine is a synthetic, 8-aminoquinoline derivative with antimalarial properties... Primaquine is an aminoquinoline that has been used for the prevention and therapy of malaria for more than 50 years..."



"8-Aminoquinoline is the 8-amino derivative of quinoline."



"Cinchona bark contains quinoline alkaloids. Quinine, quinidine, cinchonine , and cinchonidine are the major substances among over thirty others (McCalley 2002)"



"The main plant chemicals found in quinine [cinchona] bark include: aricine, caffeic acid, cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine, cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine, conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine, epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine, quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic acid, quinovin, and sucirubine."



"Quinine is very similar to quinidine. Do not use medications containing quinidine while using quinine."

So "very similar" meaning that in some ways the dosages of each are cumulative with each other?





So my point is that there are chemicals in cinchona bark that do (very similarly, worse, better?) what primaquine in combination with quinine sulphate does, because primaquine is a synthetic derivative of those chemicals in cinchona. I mean the added efficacy with malaria of primaquine's combinaton with quinine might not be very relevant for spike protein stuff, but it's an example like, similar to, the potential of the mixture of chemicals in cinchona to be more effective than one chemical being isolated from it and said to be the only "active" chemical that you want from cinchona.

But on the other hand, part two of the point, those chemicals other than quinine in cinchona might (? I don't know enough about it) need to be recognized as effectively adding to the dosage of the quinine, which could be why (it seems, from what I've read) that the traditional tribal use of cinchona bark (avoiding cinchonism symptoms) was an amount that wouldn't make a dose of quinine from it that's as much as the isolated HCQ doses for the spike protein, and that might be because of the effectively cumulative dosages of the similar chemicals adding up to be more like the isolated HCQ doses.
 

AdoTintor

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2020
Messages
405
@nejdev
@AdoTintor

Cinchona?


General info, dosing, example of what to buy:




HCQ vs quinine bark



Risks of using the bark:



About the binding affinities of plant chemicals that bind to the ACE2 receptor, details of black cumin seed chemical composition, blood brain barrier permeability of chemicals in black cumin seed oil and effects on protein receptors that affect neurodegeneration








Comparing practicality and reliability of black cumin seed oil, cinchona bark, HCQ, and chloroquine; also comparisons of binding affinities of Ivermectin, HCQ, and chloroquine:



Quinine and HCQ have different half-lives so how to dose an amount of quinine in cinchona bark similarly to Zelenko's prophylaxis protocol HCQ doses; risks of cinchona bark compared to synthetic derivatives



A picture of 2 grams of cinchona bark so people who don't have a scale can eyeball their dose estimate better than I did (so they don't get cinchonism symptoms)



Uncertainties of mine about how to compare Zelenko's recommended HCQ doses with safe cinchona bark doses, considering that cinchona bark has lots of other chemicals in it that interact with the quinine effects


____________________________


Conversation between AdoTintor and I...

Ado:
Hi 863127, how are your the experiments with cinchona bark going?

I was looking at your calculations. You can do an infinite sum for the quinine dose and there is a formula for this. So if you imagine dosing an amount q every 12 hours you will have in blood: total=q+qa+qa^2+qa^3+qa^4+.....=q/(1-a), where "a" is the fraction remaining after 12 hours which in this case is 0.5 as it is the halflife. Hence Total=2*q. Hence to get 1000mg you need to dose 500mg every 12 hours which is what you got, inelegantly :)

I need to have 1000mg in my blood for one encounter (lecture) per week. So potentially I could simply dose up in the morning with two 500mg teas, ie 20g of bark. Not sure about the merits of that - although I see that the capsule dose the recommend for adults is about 600mg in one dose. I guess I will not know if my bark is 5%

I am just trying 2g of bark tea and its pretty hard to drink - have you done the 10g tea? By the way do you know a good source that will send to UK?
Ado


Me:
So you have a scale you're weighing 2 grams with? Will you put a quarter or lighter or something next to it and take a picture?I haven't been using cinchona bark much because I've been using Ivermectin and other herbs and keep forgetting to buy a scale so I can try cinchona better. When I got the bark, I used about the same amount of it I would usually use of other strong "herbs" (denser parts of the plant like seeds or bark) when I'm making a quart of tea, because I didn't have a scale. I got cinchonism symptoms from that, starting within about a half hour and not starting to lessen much until at least three or four days later.

One thing that I'm not sure of the importance of when figuring out dosing cinchona compared to isolated quinine or HCQ is the other chemicals in cinchona maybe supporting, complementing, preparing the biochemical context, somehow making the quinine in the bark effectively like more of an isolated dose. Maybe that's why traditional use is an amount that would be ~100-300 mg quinine per cup and two or three cups a day, so not 1000 mg ingested per day, and not 1000 mg being maintained in the blood. But maybe the dosage for spike proteins should be a high dose of quinine even when it's with the supporting other chemicals, and so a problem with using cinchona for that, instead of isolated quinine/HCQ, would be the increased risk of cinchonism symptoms, because the effective potentizing of the quinine and/or other chemicals.

2 g is hard to drink because the taste? You're not getting any mild but noticeable symptoms from that amount? About that and the previous paragraph -- maybe for using it against the spike proteins (and maybe even moreso for the modified vaccine proteins?), it'll be a narrow range between a thoroughly effective enough dose and a dose that causes cinchonism symptoms (and those can take months to get completely better) so that dosage experimentation could be an important thing to be more careful about with cinchona compared to isolated quinine/HCQ?

Here's a business in the UK that sells cinchona bark:


Ado:
I read most of your posts and saw your report about cinchonism symptoms and have been very careful. Only been trying 2g in a tea and taking it each day for last 3 days. BTW I just boil it for 15 mins? I got no symptoms and yes it tastes bitter but am used to it. Never tried 10g but can only imagine the taste will be truly awful.

The dosage is really unclear because you are right that there may be other stuff - and the collective coverage is not just 100mg quinine but also 100mg of X, Y, Z. I will try the bark option and see if I feel terrible after the first lecture. Immediately take IVM if so. I suppose I should not take HCQ at that point is qininine is still high - all these unknowns.

I took 2 days of IVM and the 5 days of HCQ. I didnt like the feeling - felt like it put a whole in my head for a bit. And I think got a lot of shedding (hair!) - you get that? So want to try something else. At moment the H1+H2 and olive leaf tea, adndrographis, D2, quercetin seems to feel good and protect me when shopping etc


Ado:
I forgot to say that there is a haidut quote on the forum that basically says HCQ is big pharmas more toxic version of quinine. That was the game changer for me.



Me:
I didn't know anything about quinine or HCQ until this stuff recently. But that just makes me think that if I had a choice between isolated quinine or HCQ then now I'd consider the quinine more than before reading that. But there's still the issue of all the other stuff in the cinchona bark and how it interacts when drinking the tea regularly for prevention.

I mean I'm doubtful about HCQ's toxicity complicating using either for prophylaxis more than the other stuff in cinchona bark complicating it. On the other hand, the other chemicals in cinchona bark help the quinine some ways. So maybe the question becomes what dose of quinine from cinchona bark, with the other stuff, is equivalent to a dose of HCQ. Maybe when I did the half life dosing schedule for 500 mg, assuming it should be the same milligrams in the blood of quinine as Zelenko recommends for HCQ, maybe that's not a good assumption. Maybe it should be less.


Ado:
Before I had read that comment I didnt even know there was a connection between HCQ and quinine, and I was only interested in HCQ. After that I really became interested in the idea of quinine.

Is chinchism from pure quinine overdose or the other things in the bark? If we put the dose of bark up so that we get 1000mg of quinine could end up getting chinchism from the other things in the bark? Hmm. It would be good to find out more on standard (tribal) usage


Me:
Yeah I learned about quinine pretty much the same approach. And yeah I should try to find a good resource, maybe from around mid-20th century when cinchona vs synthetics was important, reviewing traditional uses of cinchona. I found an interesting report from the late 1800s about cinchonism:

(from this post: Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that )


"Some full papers about cinchonism:

This is an interesting one, from when cinchona bark was commonly used as a tea for quinine:
Some of the Graver and Rarer Forms of Cinchonism by I.E. Atkinson, 1889


Ado:
from the last paper it looks like it is directly from quinine, as they are only giving quinine grains. Can we get grains of pure quinine?


Me:
Oh. I only skimmed it.
I searched "buy quinine grains" and found stuff from museums and historians. I read this article:


and it says:
1 grain = 0.06479891 grams

So as long as what we get nowadays in a tablet or pill or whatever is quinine sulphate, I think that conversion's all we need to know about the grains to compare with currently available isolated quinine?


Ado:
ok - so you could try QS and see if you get symptoms from the pure form. I think I remember two tablets was 600mg the stated dose - then I can be sure to be almost near the 1000mg.
Really I have no way of knowing anything of bark quality.

But I suppose the real issue is that we are matching 1000mg of HCQ in blood as being equivalent to 1000mg of qinine? This is not necessarily going to be the same as HCQ is a derivative of qininine. For example if qinine turns into 50% HCQ then....


Me:
I was looking for common quinine sulphate dosages and found this -- lots of details of contraindications and things to consider depending on a person's disease conditions when using it.



I also found this...


"...This medication is used to kill the malaria parasites living inside red blood cells. In some cases, you may need to take a different medication (such as primaquine ) to kill the malaria parasites living in other body tissues. Both drugs [quinine and primaquine] may be needed for a complete cure and to prevent the return of infection (relapse)..."


And I thought primaquine was one of the chemicals in cinchona bark, but it's not.


(showing these again)
"The main plant chemicals found in quinine [cinchona] bark include: aricine, caffeic acid, cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine, cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine, conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine, epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine, quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic acid, quinovin, and sucirubine."



Primequine's a synthetic 8-aminoquinoline derivative.


"Primaquine is a synthetic, 8-aminoquinoline derivative with antimalarial properties... Primaquine is an aminoquinoline that has been used for the prevention and therapy of malaria for more than 50 years..."



"8-Aminoquinoline is the 8-amino derivative of quinoline."



"Cinchona bark contains quinoline alkaloids. Quinine, quinidine, cinchonine , and cinchonidine are the major substances among over thirty others (McCalley 2002)"



"The main plant chemicals found in quinine [cinchona] bark include: aricine, caffeic acid, cinchofulvic acid, cincholic acid, cinchonain, cinchonidine, cinchonine, cinchophyllamine, cinchotannic acid, cinchotine, conquinamine, cuscamidine, cuscamine, cusconidine, cusconine, epicatechin, javanine, paricine, proanthocyanidins, quinacimine, quinamine, quinic acid, quinicine, quinine, quininidine, quinovic acid, quinovin, and sucirubine."



"Quinine is very similar to quinidine. Do not use medications containing quinidine while using quinine."

So "very similar" meaning that in some ways the dosages of each are cumulative with each other?





So my point is that there are chemicals in cinchona bark that do (very similarly, worse, better?) what primaquine in combination with quinine sulphate does, because primaquine is a synthetic derivative of those chemicals in cinchona. I mean the added efficacy with malaria of primaquine's combinaton with quinine might not be very relevant for spike protein stuff, but it's an example like, similar to, the potential of the mixture of chemicals in cinchona to be more effective than one chemical being isolated from it and said to be the only "active" chemical that you want from cinchona.

But on the other hand, part two of the point, those chemicals other than quinine in cinchona might (? I don't know enough about it) need to be recognized as effectively adding to the dosage of the quinine, which could be why (it seems, from what I've read) that the traditional tribal use of cinchona bark (avoiding cinchonism symptoms) was an amount that wouldn't make a dose of quinine from it that's as much as the isolated HCQ doses for the spike protein, and that might be because of the effectively cumulative dosages of the similar chemicals adding up to be more like the isolated HCQ doses.

yes @863127 it was fun figuring out Cinchona. Your info really helped me decide to secure a substantial quantity - I take about 2g a day, and a bit more on days when I think I may be more exposed (not talking about mosquitoes). Are you still using the black seeds? Has your herbal stack evolved?
 

863127

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
200
I'm still anticipating a picture of your 25 kilos stockpile of cinchona bark. You took that picture of a 2 gram dose with a lighter for scale. Maybe dump the 25 kilos onto your living room floor and put the lighter next to that (to help people eyeball their doses)? I should be using the black cumin seeds still; I need to buy more. I still think those are one of the best herbs to include for covid prophylaxis. I'm using several herbs so haven't felt panicked about needing to buy more asap. The last section of this post has a summary of what I've been doing for covid prophylaxis:


Copying that part here...

What herbs I'm using for COVID prophylaxis

Hot water infusion of rose hips, amla, maybe elderberries (more expensive than rose hips), green tea, maybe ginkgo -- for vitamin C and bioflavonoids (quercetin, EGCG, and others) for zinc ionophore effect (with a meal of meat or eggs or shellfish), maybe ginkgo for cardio complement. Hawthorn berries would fit good with these too -- has some amount of vitamin C and bioflavonoids and good for the heart. Or schisandra berries, bilberries, sea buckthorn berries. The berries get expensive; I think rose hips and amla have the most vitamin C for the money (with the complementary blends of bioflavonoids too).

Hot water infusion of or simmered black cumin seeds, milk thistle seeds, licorice, and spices (ginger, turmeric, fenugreek, maybe cinnamon or cardamom) -- blood cleanser, liver support, antiviral, general prophylactic

Gotu kola, brahmi, ashwagandha, black cumin seeds; simmered in milk or cooked with in fat to help carry the fat-soluble chemicals to the nervous system -- neuroprotective

Hot water infusion of cinchona bark -- has quinine; substitute for hydroxychloroquine

I also make propolis extract with vodka and add that to tea.

I drink a cup or two each day of each of the three other than cinchona, cinchona less often.

Also, a blend of oils I put on my hands and in my nose -- black cumin seed oil base, maybe some neem oil too, with .125-2% concentration each of essential oils: frankincense, myrrh, spruce needle, lavender, tulsi, rosemary, clove
 
Last edited:

kaybb

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
499
Always glad to hear somebody benefit from thiamine. I began to suspect my husband had Parkinson's Disease a while back and started him on thiamine which has helped him a lot. Finding his needed dose took a year.
Now, we are upping it another 500mg an he says symptoms have improved. He takes 1000on rising, and other 1500mg early afternoon. And never near coffee or orange juice. Thankful for Dr Costantini.
Question Birdie: I have fibromyalgia and thought I read that you do too? Have you used Thiamine also, to help with pain ?
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,783
Location
USA
Question Birdie: I have fibromyalgia and thought I read that you do too? Have you used Thiamine also, to help with pain ?
I like your flowers. I just use 500mg of thiamine. But I've used LDN for years for the FMS/CME. Low Dose Naltrexone. And I use aspirin. I started thyroid in the 90s.

Thinking back, the biggest help for my pain was going nightshade free. That made a huge difference in the searing joint pain. I didn't want to try it because it seemed so difficult, but finally, also in the 90s did. Three weeks without. Checking all labels. Then a test week with. Huge increase in pain that took weeks to resolve.

I'm still very nightshade free because I do not tolerate pain. That said, I still would hurt myself in the garden or at the gym. And when this happened it would take months to get back. So, I found out about this bunch of Fibro/CME people who were using LDN and tried it. Now, my injuries heal within a week or 2, rather than the 6 months.

So, yes, I've added some B1, but the other things made a huge difference for me. But if I were just starting out, I'd try the thiamine first.
 

kaybb

Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
499
I like your flowers. I just use 500mg of thiamine. But I've used LDN for years for the FMS/CME. Low Dose Naltrexone. And I use aspirin. I started thyroid in the 90s.

Thinking back, the biggest help for my pain was going nightshade free. That made a huge difference in the searing joint pain. I didn't want to try it because it seemed so difficult, but finally, also in the 90s did. Three weeks without. Checking all labels. Then a test week with. Huge increase in pain that took weeks to resolve.

I'm still very nightshade free because I do not tolerate pain. That said, I still would hurt myself in the garden or at the gym. And when this happened it would take months to get back. So, I found out about this bunch of Fibro/CME people who were using LDN and tried it. Now, my injuries heal within a week or 2, rather than the 6 months.

So, yes, I've added some B1, but the other things made a huge difference for me. But if I were just starting out, I'd try the thiamine first.
Those flowers were in my spring garden! ?
Ok, thank you for this info. I am on LDN and it has helped tremdously. I’m off tramadol now.
I really better try night shade avoidance. I too haven’t been able to get myself to do it. Night shades are easy and favorite foods but worth a try! Thank you for your inspiration. Also, I’m ordering some thiamine. I heard it’s good for migraine also, which I have those .
Thanks again!
 

x3britt45

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
45
I am not sure if you resolved your Long Haul or not, but I took Ivermectin for 2 months, which helped immensely. The first month was the regular dose for my weight on the I-Recover FLCCC plan. The second month, it was an increased dose every other day. I had severe GI issues though and lost 35+ lbs in a short time and that took a long time to clear. Most of the other issues improved within 2-4 weeks. I was already taking a ton of supplements including C, D3, K2, Zinc, COQ10, NAC, Curcumin w/pepper, and a bunch of others. In addition, I took colostrum and homeopathic suramin for my GI issues. The fatigue and brain fog cleared immediately for me. I still have a severe headache but I had it before Covid. I actually get injections now and hope that one day I get rid of it.
Where did you purchase the homeopathic suramin?
 

thesmileyone

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2022
Messages
8
Location
UK
Hey folks,

New to Ray Peat...spent the last few days doing some reading and watching videos. I found this forum because I did a duckduckgo search cross-referencing Ivermectin and long haul COVID. It landed me on another thread about someone who was currently using Ivermectin to stop acute COVID. Before that I had never heard of Ray Peat, though I have been bio-hacking for awhile (nootropics and such, trying to optimize health)

I had acute COVID in March of this year - 2021 - previously super fit, training for a marathon, never got ill...35 y/o healthy male. COVID was the sickest I've ever been - horrible headaches, body fatigue, 39/40c fever for a week and a half, delerium, all sorts of fun stuff. I thought I was going to die, to the point where I was writing out all my passwords and personal info for my wife. After two weeks of hell, I pulled through. Interestingly enough, I never had shortness of breath or lung issues. I think I was infected through my eye because it was sore for 4 days before I tested positive and I just felt "off". Anyway, I recovered, felt fine a few weeks after I got over it, started running again. Then the real nightmare began.

Ever since I "recovered" I have had a revolving door of awful symptoms:
- Bone crushing fatigue
- Sore muscles for no reason
- Memory loss, brain fog, "drunk" or "spaced out" feeling
- Trouble forming speech
- Vision issues (seeing sparks/black spots in peripheral vision)
- Twitching muslces (my calves twitch daily, every day)
- Sharp head pain, headaches and occasional nausea
- Sharp chest pains (they have mostly resolved now)
- Post exertional malaise...for example, I went into the office two days ago after the lockdown ended in my country, and just spending the day socializing with co-workers put me in bed for two days. Just talking for an extended period of time hurts.

It's a lot, I know, and it's led me here. I don't know what's happening to me - my life is deteriorating. The doctors in my Scandinavian country ******* suck, excuse my language. When I was acutely ill, I was told to stay home and take an aspirin, and not to come in unless my lips turned blue or I stopped breathing. Unbelievable. Now that I have what seems to be chronic illness from this, I have been passed around like a bag of oreos. Been to the ER multiple times because I thought I was having a heart attack. Docs took blood, said I was fine and sent me home. Been to the local state doc multiple times. They said I just need rest and that I need to exercise more. Obviously ***t advice. One guy suggested it was stress. I know something is wrong. So I'm here, looking for help.

I see there are some threads about long haulers. I have tried Ivermectin for a few days (got it prescribed from a guy in UK), I think it relieved my inflammation but caused an uptick in sharp head pain and vision issues, so I stopped taking it. I have tried tons of supplements - the only thing that seems to put a dent in this is antihistamines. I was over on Reddit for a bit until they started banning the subs because people were talking about taking Ivermectin or saying the vaccine was making them ill. That's a whole other issue.

The supplements I'm currently taking:

For mitochondrial health (I read somewhere that the immune system destroys mitochondria/depletes energy)
L-Carnitine
ALA
NAC
Creatine
Q10

For immune support:
Vitamin D3
Magnesium
K2 (if I'm high dosing D3)
Zinc

For brain health:
Omega 3s
Resveratrol
NAD+
Lions Mane Tea

Anti-inflammatory:
Loratadine (Claritin)
Roiboos Tea
Paracetemol
Naproxen
Corticosteroid inhaler at one point, rarely use now

**Fasting has helped immensely, I think because the autophagy reduces inflammation and if anyone's seen the Bruce Patterson vids, he seems to think the problem is inflammation from non-classical monocytes.

Obviously, this is a lot of ***t - I'm just trying to find something that will help. I have heard rumors that this is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, that I may now have prion disease/mad cow disease. Heard that the vaccinated also shed spike proteins. Not sure what to believe honestly, there's so much ***t flying around. I do believe this virus came from a lab though so I see why the body has trouble clearing it. But I just don't understand why others (my wife, for instance) can have the sniffles for 3 days from this, and then I get completely railroaded, considering I was so healthy before. Sidenote, I tested myself for my D3 levels months ago, realized I was deficient, so maybe that contributed to my susceptibility.

Anyway, apologies for the novel. I just need help, and I'm running out of time and options. I have always been a firm believe in the ability to heal myself no matter what - just need the right tools. Any input you all have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I had the same except sh***ing water for 2 weeks. I lost just under 30lb in 2 weeks. I had the Delta+ strain, the worst, and I'm unvaxxinated but I did have a few PCR tests and I'm actually convinced that I got delta+ off the swab itself, or something to do with having to stuff it in your throat then up your nose.

Gingko Biloba fixed my brain fog, I had to work up the dose as it was giving me headaches but it's been 6 months now and brain fog free except when hypoglycemic (more on this shortly).

Enteric NMN fixed my energy issues, however my intestines cannot tolerate enterics since covid. I now use powdered NMN but I get bloating often on these days.

Both of them actually FIXED the issue; I no longer need to take them and back to my old self.

Quercetin and Zinc in combo was a life saver along with andrographis and intuitively feel this is actually what stopped me from dying from it. I came so close to death, swinging from hypothermia to hyperthermia constantly.

I take NAC to try and avoid vaxxers shedding, but I'm not sure if they can shed, because that's a live vaccine thing, unless there's graphene in it or something.
I also feel violently ill if I drive past the new high tech looking 5G masts. Again I know this is a big conspiracy theory but I had no issues with this before covid, however I have always been energy sensitive due to my meditational practice and they turned them up / blanketed my country in the delta between getting covid+ (nov 2021) and now.

I can't get to a doctor, they all claim to be ran off their feet yet the car parks / practices are empty. There's a 3 month waiting list just for a telecom appointment and so I can't get blood tests etc, so I have to supplement based on anectdotal experience.

The BEST thing I have found for long covid is andrographis paniculata extract. Thailand treated their prisoners with it instead of vaccines. The vaccines aren't even vaccines but therapeutics.

The only thing I'm struggling with now is digestive issues; stomach bloating, my poop smells of plasticine (and I have my full sense of smell/taste back) no matter what I eat. I'm taking a pre/probiotic, yakult, kefir, this seems to work well. I also take a ginger extract which helps. I am also struggling with hypoglycemia since covid. Reactive hypoglycemia to any fruits or carbs as well as fasted hypoglycemia if I go over 16 hours or so fasted. Can't win. My waking temp is often in the hypothermia range (35C) and my pulse is around 60-70.

Hope some of that helps you!
 

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