Legitimate Question: Why Do Guys Feel Responcible If Their Wife/Girlfriend Is Not Happy About Something?

[FocusedOnHealth]

You guys have lost the plot in your applause for this woman. It does not matter who identifies as a feminist. It matters if they behave like one - and this one clearly has power over her man. Along with plenty of time to analyze her man's concerning brownie-point earning compliance with strangers online. And furthermore, you have lost the plot because you believe the woman has the faculties to become a feminist, non-feminist, etc. She is simply a product of her environment. The weaker the men around her, the more she will compensate by taking on those manly qualities herself; which is basically "feminism" (which should be called masculinism - a female taking on masculine qualities). In this way, OP and hundreds of millions of others are merely following their function. It is no wonder why they feel so strange when their man is under them; their subconscious is preparing them for their likely near-future wherein they have to act as the leader.

Waynish, you are a strange one. Sorry, just being honest. I have no idea what you are on about. There have been a quite a few helpful comments to my question which I appreciate. Unfortunately, yours is neither helpful nor logical, nor do they add anything positive to the discussion or help bring insight to the topic I introduced.

 

[Morgan]

You make it very obvious across threads that you're either LGBTQ or a feminist. I notice an influx of that in this forum - and it is common that they overtly ignore the basics of Peat's work while trying to enforce their views. Classic Tikkun olam.
"Seek first to understand, and then to be understood."

There is definitely a trend in projecting and the insistence in applying some sort of caricature to something you either disagree with or do not understand.. You say something like "it is common that they overtly ignore the basics of Peat's work" yet provide absolutely no evidence of that, in fact it is likely when it comes to views on morality that you would be at odds with some of what Ray Peat has stated.. It seems as if you have assimilated what is parroted in this environment as being the beliefs of the man himself?

The Western White Male Personality Is Maladaptive

I circulated a questionnaire in 1957 among college students of various nationalities and classes. My conclusions suggested that the contemporary white male Western abstract personality was dysadaptive, in the sense that many vital abilities or capacities were undeveloped or suppressed. I am...

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"Seek first to understand, and then to be understood" nice display of hypocrisy since you are labeling someone when they haven't expressed any notion of receiving such a label. You forced upon me a thought that I have never had before in another thread, which implies that you must have first thought of it and then proceeded to project that on to me, how interesting?

You guys have lost the plot in your applause for this woman. It does not matter who identifies as a feminist. It matters if they behave like one - and this one clearly has power over her man. Along with plenty of time to analyze her man's concerning brownie-point earning compliance with strangers online. And furthermore, you have lost the plot because you believe the woman has the faculties to become a feminist, non-feminist, etc. She is simply a product of her environment. The weaker the men around her, the more she will compensate by taking on those manly qualities herself; which is basically "feminism" (which should be called masculinism - a female taking on masculine qualities). In this way, OP and hundreds of millions of others are merely following their function. It is no wonder why they feel so strange when their man is under them; their subconscious is preparing them for their likely near-future wherein they have to act as the leader.

Define for me what you mean by "power"? Are we all not a product of our environment if we remain ignorant to how said environment is influencing us? Why exactly does a man have to lead? Isn't the point of a marriage to have a loving partner that "leads" with you, the very act of seeking that supposed strength and subjective "leadership quality" is entrapment, it becomes a prison for a man..

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

You're basically saying a more intense version of what I'm saying here:



Although I do believe some women have the power to resist environmental pressure and renounce feminism. Seems like more and more gen Z women are starting to do exactly that.

@OccamzRazer, you wrote:
“ In the same way that we who've discovered Peat go on to realize that even some 'health foods' contain oxidized PUFA, even those who aren't outright modern feminists can be swayed by anti-male beliefs.”

How would you define anti-male beliefs? And how and why would that subject be applied to this thread when there is no anti-male sentiments being expressed here except by a certain poster who imaginarily seems to want to make this thread somehow about being anti-male?

 

[Ulysses]

Ok, I will give you an example of what I mean….

Whenever my husband and I go out to a restaurant, and the meal is delicious and I (the wife) have expressed my pleasure of how good the meal was, and how delicious it was etc., my husband is so pleased and kind of takes personal responciblity for the way the dinner turned out, even though he was not personally involved in making the meal. I usually enjoy most of the meals when we go out to eat, since we both share common food cuisine interests.

Yet, on the rare occasion when we go out to a restaurant and my particular dish is terrible, and I express that the meal was not so good, my husband almost acts like it is his fault that I am not happy with the meal, even though he had nothing to do with whether the quality of the meal is good or not. He still acts like it was his fault that I am not happy with the meal.

Even though I have clearly let him know it is not him but the restaurant that is the issue. I let him know that it certainly isn’t his fault that the meal was not good.

My question is, why do men feel responcible for the happiness of their wife/girlfriend when it is not legitimately their responcibility?

I have noticed this in other incidences as well. Why do men feel like the happiness of their wife/girlfriend is their responcibilty? I know it’s not just my situation but other women have expressed this as well.

Just plain curious…

If a woman is unhappy often enough while she's with you, she'll eventually leave you.

 

[kyle]

Whether the internet is a place to talk about your marriage - I'm inclined to think it is not almost as a rule. Traditionally it's a topic for a husband, wife and a priest. In other words, parties actually invested in making it work and their spiritual health.

Gossip was once taboo in our culture and that's almost completely lost. We live in a society that struggles with privacy and boundaries because internet traffic is driven by social and emotional parasitism that I think very few can comprehend or navigate healthily. Clicks, likes, algorithms are shaping culture rather than common sense.

As far as focusedonhealth's initial post - I tend to think it to be a complete nothing compared to what Ive seen many people share on the internet.

It's going to compromise your own integrity to be a spectator or commentator on someones marriage, because well meaning as anyone may be, we're all prone to our own baggage and can not possibly be in a position to judge.

I'm not being opposed to people discussing whatever but realize there's real humans on the other keyboard. Maybe using another's personal life as the vehicle to rage against feminism really doesnt help your cause.

The simple fact is there's alot of reading into things and making things personal that is beyond anyone's ability to know.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Ok, I will give you an example of what I mean….

Whenever my husband and I go out to a restaurant, and the meal is delicious and I (the wife) have expressed my pleasure of how good the meal was, and how delicious it was etc., my husband is so pleased and kind of takes personal responciblity for the way the dinner turned out, even though he was not personally involved in making the meal. I usually enjoy most of the meals when we go out to eat, since we both share common food cuisine interests.

Yet, on the rare occasion when we go out to a restaurant and my particular dish is terrible, and I express that the meal was not so good, my husband almost acts like it is his fault that I am not happy with the meal, even though he had nothing to do with whether the quality of the meal is good or not. He still acts like it was his fault that I am not happy with the meal.

Even though I have clearly let him know it is not him but the restaurant that is the issue. I let him know that it certainly isn’t his fault that the meal was not good.

My question is, why do men feel responcible for the happiness of their wife/girlfriend when it is not legitimately their responcibility?

I have noticed this in other incidences as well. Why do men feel like the happiness of their wife/girlfriend is their responcibilty? I know it’s not just my situation but other women have expressed this as well.

Just plain curious…

I've been paying alot of attention to societal pressure on both genders and to give a possible answer to your question i feel it's because men receive pressure from society when it comes to women, it's always

"keep your woman happy or she will leave you"

So i think alot of it is rooted in conditioned fear. I also think we are in an age where men have sort of become cuked by women and turned into beta sissies, and so they hold alot of power over men and the whole "men are ***t/trash" narrative is making men actually believe that if women are miserable that it's all a mans fault, not birth control / estrogen or ssri's, there's this pushed accountability being put on men to sort of take on a damaged women and you have to make her happy and you don't she will find someone else, sort of like the Will Smith and Jada thing,

She is high serotonin so she is miserable by default and it's impossible for a man to make her happy, she has to do that herself by fixing her biology and lifestyle, but she is also the kind of woman that puts it on a man to make her happy and holds men accountable for her shitty toxic behavior,

So theres alot of women out there like that, and there's alot of men who have been abused by this cuk beta culture syndrome where men have been hurt in the past or conditioned to think the have to juggle fire just to keep a woman around by keeping her happy,

It sounds like you both have a healthy relationship, and you sound like a very wise and reasonable person for pointing out something that usually only men would address,

My personal opinion i think alot of it has to do with the pressure we as men have from society.

For example, a man is expected to be a man and only gets the luxeries of being a man if he is considered a real man by society

and to be a real man in this society they expect you to provide, and have a high paying job even though the economy is ****88, as a man theres soooo much pressure to perform and you have to be at the top of your game, where as alot of women seem to have it easier off at least in that area, woman can be broke and a man can still love her and want to be with her for who she is and not the money she makes, where as for men, your money, your status, and car you drive, etc, all that is basically the essential for your sex appeal.

I think generally men feel like they have extremely high standards to meet and live up to to not only get a girlfriend / life partner, but also keep one around.

And this is not meant to offend anyone or stereotype but i think most men can agree we feel as though theres an insane amount of pressure we have to withstand, and very high standards we have to meet to make it as a man in this world,

I see plenty of rich wealthy men date girls who work minimum wage jobs, but i've almost never seen a rich woman date a broke man, broke men are generally viewed as losers where as a broke woman is just viewed as a woman.

I feel like alot of us men tend to feel very insecure and sometimes on edge from the pressure of society for us to perform and provide

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

I've been paying alot of attention to societal pressure on both genders and to give a possible answer to your question i feel it's because men receive pressure from society when it comes to women, it's always

"keep your woman happy or she will leave you"

So i think alot of it is rooted in conditioned fear. I also think we are in an age where men have sort of become cuked by women and turned into beta sissies, and so they hold alot of power over men and the whole "men are ***t/trash" narrative is making men actually believe that if women are miserable that it's all a mans fault, not birth control / estrogen or ssri's, there's this pushed accountability being put on men to sort of take on a damaged women and you have to make her happy and you don't she will find someone else, sort of like the Will Smith and Jada thing,

She is high serotonin so she is miserable by default and it's impossible for a man to make her happy, she has to do that herself by fixing her biology and lifestyle, but she is also the kind of woman that puts it on a man to make her happy and holds men accountable for her shitty toxic behavior,

So theres alot of women out there like that, and there's alot of men who have been abused by this cuk beta culture syndrome where men have been hurt in the past or conditioned to think the have to juggle fire just to keep a woman around by keeping her happy,

It sounds like you both have a healthy relationship, and you sound like a very wise and reasonable person for pointing out something that usually only men would address,

My personal opinion i think alot of it has to do with the pressure we as men have from society.

For example, a man is expected to be a man and only gets the luxeries of being a man if he is considered a real man by society

and to be a real man in this society they expect you to provide, and have a high paying job even though the economy is ****88, as a man theres soooo much pressure to perform and you have to be at the top of your game, where as alot of women seem to have it easier off at least in that area, woman can be broke and a man can still love her and want to be with her for who she is and not the money she makes, where as for men, your money, your status, and car you drive, etc, all that is basically the essential for your sex appeal.

I think generally men feel like they have extremely high standards to meet and live up to to not only get a girlfriend / life partner, but also keep one around.

And this is not meant to offend anyone or stereotype but i think most men can agree we feel as though theres an insane amount of pressure we have to withstand, and very high standards we have to meet to make it as a man in this world,

I see plenty of rich wealthy men date girls who work minimum wage jobs, but i've almost never seen a rich woman date a broke man, broke men are generally viewed as losers where as a broke woman is just viewed as a woman.

I feel like alot of us men tend to feel very insecure and sometimes on edge from the pressure of society for us to perform and provide

Wow, thank you, you make so many great and thoughtful comments, and I agree with you on your points.

Yes, I do see there is a lot of pressure on men in society. A lot of it has been placed on men by society, from the unrealistic expectations of others and from the unrealistic expectations they place on themselves. I think social media has contributed A LOT to that. I hate Twitter, Fake book and Instagram. it’s so shallow, artificial and unrealistic. I’m opinionated but it’s one of my pet peeves, and I hate that stuff.

Yeah, it is insane nowadays, that for someone just starting out, they are expected to the make the most money in a shitty economy. I so agree with you.

Thankfully I didn’t meet my husband through social media. Personally I think it’s useless and a waste of time, but thats me. I don’t think it has done us any good for society. But just create a greater divide between the sexes.

There is a lot of pressure on humanity in general. There’s definitely a shift happening, and how you perceive it will determine one’s future.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I truly appreciate the effort my husband makes to be a good provider and father.

My husband is a busy and successful man. But how I define success might not be how someone else defines success. He’s a good provider, but we’ve also had our ups and downs financially as most couples have.

To me, having the largest McMansion on the block is not my thing. In fact I loath that mentality.. My possessions do not define me nor do they impress me. So I consider the me, me, me selfie mindset…”I’ve gotta have it all, nothing but the best“ offensive. And unfortunately, it seems that type of mentality is what is promoted in Instagram land. Plus boobs and butts. Like that‘s all that defines you. Yeah, right.

My husband is pretty much the same way in his outlook and that’s what I love about him. He keeps it real. Yet he consistently endeavors to try and be the best example he can be, and make changes where they need to be made.

He’s not perfect, and neither am I.

But he finds time to go out of his way to do nice things for me and our family. Like the bagel example I mentioned in a previous post.

He just does things like that.

To me that’s awesome.

Even though it might seem small or inconsequential to others, or that I control the narrative, that’s not it at all. To me, it’s the daily little things he does from his heart, that I appreciate and value.

 

[OccamzRazer]

@OccamzRazer, you wrote:
“ In the same way that we who've discovered Peat go on to realize that even some 'health foods' contain oxidized PUFA, even those who aren't outright modern feminists can be swayed by anti-male beliefs.”

How would you define anti-male beliefs? And how and why would that subject be applied to this thread when there is no anti-male sentiments being expressed here except by a certain poster who imaginarily seems to want to make this thread somehow about being anti-male?

There are plenty of anti-male sentiments here. Just look at I'mNoOne's posts - no need to resort to imaginations.

I'd define anti-male beliefs as any set of beliefs that gives more grace to females who fail to be women than it gives to males who fail to be men. Yet anti-male beliefs can also be used to shame and guilt men who seek to fulfill traditional roles.

Putting two and two together, anti-male beliefs, when held by females, tend to lead to an expectation that males adhere to the best aspects of their traditional roles. All the while, the females doing all this expecting may do little to fulfill their version/equivalent of said roles.

But then again, I'm no expert, just an observer lol.

 

[Nomane Euger]

There are plenty of anti-male sentiments here. Just look at I'mNoOne's posts - no need to resort to imaginations.

I'd define anti-male beliefs as any set of beliefs that gives more grace to females who fail to be women than it gives to males who fail to be men. Yet anti-male beliefs can also be used to shame and guilt men who seek to fulfill traditional roles.

Putting two and two together, anti-male beliefs, when held by females, tend to lead to an expectation that males adhere to the best aspects of their traditional roles. All the while, the females doing all this expecting may do little to fulfill their version/equivalent of said roles.

But then again, I'm no expert, just an observer lol.

hi,when you refer to IAmNoOne posts,do you refer to her comments on this post from focused on health,or other posts?

 

[JamesGatz]

I believe there is this sharp disconnect from thinking/assumptions of women/men in general.

Men tend to be stuck in this chronic stress/serotonergic state and I see this behavior manifest into their relationships - they tend to be insecure and "on edge" - they overthink and look for some hidden meaning in their conversations with women - they are overly defensive of their women up to the point where it magnifies their insecurity - if something is wrong - they see it as their fault. Men run around to do the most for special events such as birthdays and family events

Meanwhile for women - they are a lot less stressed and don't look for some hidden meaning in something that clearly does not concern them. If something is wrong they blame those responsible and they don't tend to overthink or overdo something unnecessary.

Ultimately I believe the cause is stress and is not exclusive to one or the other - I believe it just appears to be just men because the vast majority of men in society tend to be in this state these days - I have a few ideas why this would be the case

 

[area51puy]

She has bent over backwards to try to say she understands it’s tough for guys nowadays and still all this anger they have towards women directed at her.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

I believe there is this sharp disconnect from thinking/assumptions of women/men in general.

Men tend to be stuck in this chronic stress/serotonergic state and I see this behavior manifest into their relationships - they tend to be insecure and "on edge" - they overthink and look for some hidden meaning in their conversations with women - they are overly defensive of their women up to the point where it magnifies their insecurity - if something is wrong - they see it as their fault. Men run around to do the most for special events such as birthdays and family events

Meanwhile for women - they are a lot less stressed and don't look for some hidden meaning in something that clearly does not concern them. If something is wrong they blame those responsible and they don't tend to overthink or overdo something unnecessary.

Ultimately I believe the cause is stress and is not exclusive to one or the other - I believe it just appears to be just men because the vast majority of men in society tend to be in this state these days - I have a few ideas why this would be the case

Good input.

Do you think the whole idea that women subconsciously "sh!t test" men is true?

I am not sure given my limited interactions, but maybe this is relevant here.

After all the manosphere does talk of women doing this a lot, even if men may ignore it or not apparently "notice" it.

A girl for example said she had a boyfriend even though she said she was interested. I had no idea what to do so I obviously felt kinda stumped with the whole back and forth bit, but eventually she moved things forward if I did in fact screw up these "sh!t tests" or whatever so I am not too disappointed lol

Why I ask is because apparently this is not just applied to shorter term interactions or "girlfriends" but marriage as would be the case with OP and her husband too for example. Supposedly the idea is women sh!t test and do not even have to be aware of it -- a sort of way to measure a guy's state or social responsiveness?

IDK ... I have terrible social skills/can't flirt so if I did in fact fail these tests if they were actually a thing so I guess it isn't the end of the world for guys as girls obviously won't care much I guess if they really are interested maybe so long as you can handle "one-on-one" stuff more intimately or such.

 

[I'm.No.One]

hi,when you refer to IAmNoOne posts,do you refer to her comments on this post from focused on health,or other posts?

Probably because I dared to point out a behavior that some men have as an issue.

I'm not a feminist by the current definition in the least, but I do think it's pretty problematic that women sharing incidents of emotional abuse or otherwise is somehow seen as "anti-man".

But who knows, maybe he finds my other posts where I as a woman need to like raise my low testosterone or recover from burn out as "anti-man" it's hard to know anymore ?

Observation of this thread:

People who are like "hmm maybe it's this/I've experienced this"

Or

People, cough cough...men, being triggered by women sharing perspectives.

Or

No one knows what the fu(k waynish is rambling on about...

 

[JamesGatz]

Good input.

Do you think the whole idea that women subconsciously "sh!t test" men is true?

I am not sure given my limited interactions, but maybe this is relevant here.

After all the manosphere does talk of women doing this a lot, even if men may ignore it or not apparently "notice" it.

A girl for example said she had a boyfriend even though she said she was interested. I had no idea what to do so I obviously felt kinda stumped with the whole back and forth bit, but eventually she moved things forward if I did in fact screw up these "sh!t tests" or whatever so I am not too disappointed lol

Why I ask is because apparently this is not just applied to shorter term interactions or "girlfriends" but marriage as would be the case with OP and her husband too for example. Supposedly the idea is women sh!t test and do not even have to be aware of it -- a sort of way to measure a guy's state or social responsiveness?

IDK ... I have terrible social skills/can't flirt so if I did in fact fail these tests if they were actually a thing so I guess it isn't the end of the world for guys as girls obviously won't care much I guess if they really are interested maybe so long as you can handle "one-on-one" stuff more intimately or such.

Pertaining to s*** testing this is the way I view it:

If a women tells a man "she has a boyfriend" - it could mean:

1) She does not find the man worthy and wants him to get lost without hurting his feelings - they like to avoid being attacked after rejection

2) She does not find the man worthy, but is still open - in this case if you pass the s*** test with a clever response - she may be inclined to give you her number or do XYZ

However , the reality of the situation is that any women - boyfriend or not, married or not, will approach you and chase relations with you as long as you pass a threshold on looks - some would like to think some girls are not like that, but as long as the threshold is passed I believe there are no exceptions.

Girls absolutely approach and absolutely ask guys for sex shortly after meeting if you look like the guy they dream about - very few men know this reality.

Which is why I hate PUA and all these other related fields - as a man - approaching is never necessary if you pass the threshold, therefore, I believe focus should be passed on passing that threshold

Girls still s*** test these types of men, but it's more in the way of playfully teasing them while on their way to get their brains f***** out of them

 

[Chophouse360]

Ok, I will give you an example of what I mean….

Whenever my husband and I go out to a restaurant, and the meal is delicious and I (the wife) have expressed my pleasure of how good the meal was, and how delicious it was etc., my husband is so pleased and kind of takes personal responciblity for the way the dinner turned out, even though he was not personally involved in making the meal. I usually enjoy most of the meals when we go out to eat, since we both share common food cuisine interests.

Yet, on the rare occasion when we go out to a restaurant and my particular dish is terrible, and I express that the meal was not so good, my husband almost acts like it is his fault that I am not happy with the meal, even though he had nothing to do with whether the quality of the meal is good or not. He still acts like it was his fault that I am not happy with the meal.

Even though I have clearly let him know it is not him but the restaurant that is the issue. I let him know that it certainly isn’t his fault that the meal was not good.

My question is, why do men feel responcible for the happiness of their wife/girlfriend when it is not legitimately their responcibility?

I have noticed this in other incidences as well. Why do men feel like the happiness of their wife/girlfriend is their responcibilty? I know it’s not just my situation but other women have expressed this as well.

Just plain curious…

I think it has to do with we feel bad that we chose a restaurant with shitty food

 

[Jennifer]

However , the reality of the situation is that any women - boyfriend or not, married or not, will approach you and chase relations with you as long as you pass a threshold on looks

No.

 

[ursidae]

She has bent over backwards to try to say she understands it’s tough for guys nowadays and still all this anger they have towards women directed at her.

ahaha
and that is why you shouldn't bend over backwards

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

She has bent over backwards to try to say she understands it’s tough for guys nowadays and still all this anger they have towards women directed at her.

Lol thanks Yeah, no anti- male vibes…just wanted to get a perspective

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

No.

JamesGatz said:
However , the reality of the situation is that any women - boyfriend or not, married or not, will approach you and chase relations with you as long as you pass a threshold on looks

Me: yeah, I agree with Jennifer. Maybe *some* will but that’s a blanket statement

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Pertaining to s*** testing this is the way I view it:

If a women tells a man "she has a boyfriend" - it could mean:

1) She does not find the man worthy and wants him to get lost without hurting his feelings - they like to avoid being attacked after rejection

2) She does not find the man worthy, but is still open - in this case if you pass the s*** test with a clever response - she may be inclined to give you her number or do XYZ

However , the reality of the situation is that any women - boyfriend or not, married or not, will approach you and chase relations with you as long as you pass a threshold on looks - some would like to think some girls are not like that, but as long as the threshold is passed I believe there are no exceptions.

Girls absolutely approach and absolutely ask guys for sex shortly after meeting if you look like the guy they dream about - very few men know this reality.

Which is why I hate PUA and all these other related fields - as a man - approaching is never necessary if you pass the threshold, therefore, I believe focus should be passed on passing that threshold

Girls still s*** test these types of men, but it's more in the way of playfully teasing them while on their way to get their brains f***** out of them

James, are you talking about your own experience ?