Iron and Hair Loss the missing link?

[Soren]

@Lokzo had a really useful experience with this. Could you let us know how you safely raised your ferritin Lucas?
My last blood test my ferritin had dropped by like 30+% since using aspirin/antibiotics/blood donations and my hair had thinned a very noticeable amount. Extremely concerning, I’ve dropped taking those but I now want a way to raise my ferritin back up without supplementing iron. For whatever reason plenty of red meat isn’t raising it and I have no idea why. I hope you get some answers here :)

According to a lot of the anecdotal evidence I´ve heard if your iron is low it can be very hard to raise it just from diet and you may need to supplement.

Matt blackburn had a long podcast discussing iron deficiency with a Caitlyn Hartigan, a women who suffered anemia for years and developed a protocol to replenish iron levels healthily. At 1:37:02 she discusses why some people will need to supplement and diet alone will not be enough.

 

[Soren]

With iron it's important to understand hepcidin which controls cellular iron efflux. High hepcidin means low serum iron and vice versa. Hepcidin is raised by anything that raises IL-6 or in simpler terms inflammation, this includes iron itself.

Serum iron and even ferritin are poor indicators of tissue iron. If your tissues are loaded with iron you will be in a state of inflammation and there is a good chance blood results will show low iron. Consuming high iron foods or supplements will raise your hepcidin, lower your iron and temporarily give you a feeling of relief. But this iron is all being put into tissues somewhere where it will eventually cause problems.

Substances like aspirin, caffeine and vitamin C lower hepcidin. This opens the door that allows iron to be released from cells, this is a common reason why many people struggle with these things.

I wish iron was easily lowered by exercise and fasting, if it was it would be a very easy solution to iron overload but it isn't. Even moderate iron overload requires several pints of blood to be removed. Exercise does increase inflammation so could give a misleading low iron blood test.

Personally I think hair loss is most likely caused by high tissue iron or a fungal infection which also wouldn't be a problem if iron was low. It's possible that anemia could cause hair loss but I'm on Peat's side that this is rarely caused by low iron. I've experienced this first hand when donating blood and I was borderline anemic before the donation so the nurse was hesitant but when she tested my actual iron it was above normal.

I'm not trying to shoot you down but I've been down this road and it's a long road back. Be very careful with iron.

Very interesting perspective and definitely a lot to think about. As I said before my instinct initially has been to assume that low iron was not an issue and that it was likely some other problem which manifested as low Iron but given what I have read recently in research, testimonials and my own anecdotal experience i am not convinced that low iron is not a contributing factor to my hair loss.

 

[Soren]

Ray is very clear in his stance on iron. It would help if you guys actually read his work and the existing forum threads before posting a topic that’s been discussed here many times before. Iron supplements are not the solution to your hair loss.

Iron Deficiency Anemia

The prevalence of iron deficiency anemia is 2 percent in adult men, 9 to 12 percent in non-Hispanic white women, and nearly 20 percent in black and Mexican-American women. Nine percent of patients older than 65 years with iron deficiency anemia have a gastrointestinal cancer when evaluated. The...

www.aafp.org

“Men and nonmenstruating women lose about 1 mg of iron per day”

“Absorption can increase three- to fivefold in states of depletion.”

Iron's Dangers

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

“There is a remarkably close association between the amount of iron stored in our tissues and the risk of death from cancer, heart disease, or from all causes. This relationship between iron and death rate exists even during childhood, but the curve is downward until the age of 12, and then it rises steadily until death. The shape of this curve, representing the iron burden, is amazingly similar to the curves representing the rate of death in general, and the rate of death from cancer. There is no other relationship in biology that I know of that has this peculiar shape, with its minimum at the age of 12, and its maximum in old age at the time of death.”

“Iron deficiency anemia does exist, in laboratory situations and in some cases of chronic bleeding, but I believe it should be the last-suspected cause of anemia, instead of the first. ”

Thank you for sharing. I have read a great deal of Ray´s work and the thing that led me to his work in the first place was first accepting that I could be wrong. I was so convinced that sugar was the devil, that fasting was the way to eternal youth and it took my health being destroyed before i was willing to look at other possibilities.

I initially dismissed the idea of iron being anything other than a problem however I have to be open to the possibility given a great deal of evidence from people and my own personal experience that I am wrong.

You may well be right, what appears to be low iron could just be a manifestation of another underlying cause, either way it warrants further discussion in my view.

Also, I searched the forum specifically for Iron and Hair loss and i found very little said about it so i think there is no harm in me starting this thread to explore the topic further.

 

[Soren]

I don't see anyone talking about iron supplements.

I drink alot of milk, and over time my iron numbers are decreasing. I started eating more beef, which increased my iron numbers.
Do you know of recommended values?
Ray said sat % at 25 is good. Mine was there, but fell to 19 last year. Last year I was at 66 for serum, 18 for ferritin, 19 for sat %.

"Low ferritin means low iron stores. Whether that means lower inflammation is not always clear but testing CRP and ESR would tell you that. In general, the lower the ferritin the lower inflammation since iron plays such a prominent role in inflammatory reactions." - Haidut

I also drink a lot of milk, calcium inhibits the absorption of iron, my diet and lifestyle over the past 10 years has definitely been one that tried to keep iron levels low which is part of the reason why I think there maybe certain instances where low iron can indirectly cause hair loss. It maybe the case that the low iron is a symptom of a different problem which is the real cause of hair loss but I think there is strong evidence to suggest there is at the very least a correlation between low iron and hair loss.

 

[sunny]

I have some random iron info, for both low and high, that I have saved:


IRON

RP: High Iron, particularly if it’s the Iron Saturation %, just like Prolactin, is a sign of high estrogen. Are you dealing with your thyroid first?

DR: “Estrogen and the hypoxia , and the low thyroid increasing the estrogen promoting the hypoxia, that is what’s making the iron accumulate and displace the copper. It’s not just a random iron overload situation right”

DR: “So the iron overload is actually hyperesteogenemia
RP: “I think so, in most cases”
Danny Roddy Clips
-------‐------------
think improving nutrition in general might be a better idea than addressing iron directly since people can have a high level of stored iron combined with a low level of red blood cells. One should be eating gelatin, liver, oysters, shrimps, fruits, cooked green vegetables, etc. (e.g.: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, copper, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. ). Here are a few articles/quotes which might help:

Ray Peat on copper deficiency and iron, their relationship
Ray Peat - Iron's dangers
Danny Roddy - Iron Overload, Perturbed Redox Balance, and Meddling Serotonin

On Anemia
Anemia in itself doesn't imply that there is a nutritional need for iron. - Ray Peat

It is possible to have too much iron in the blood while being anemic. - Ray Peat

Anemic means lacking blood, in the sense of not having enough red blood cells or hemoglobin. - Ray Peat

Most people define anemia as low iron, but should be classifying it as low bio-available copper causing increased saturation of iron in the tissues. - EastWest Healing

Thyroid
Abnormal thyroid status can affect ferritin level, without necessarily affecting your iron load. - Ray Peat

High estrogen
High estrogen causes hypoxia which in turn causes iron accumulation. - Danny Roddy (paraphrased from Ray Peat)

Copper and Vitamin A
Too much iron and too much stress makes us lose copper. -Ray Peat

The copper in oysters is protective against iron excess. - Ray Peat

Copper defends agains activated iron. Copper can turn ferrous iron back into the safer ferric iron. - Ray Peat

Vitamin A and bioavailable copper [from liver and shelfish] play a huge role in regulating iron ferrous to ferric iron. - EastWest Healing

Low iron and Low iron saturation –a sign your iron recycling programing is slowing down in response to a deficiency in bio-available copper [from liver and shelfish]. - East West Healing

Iron is regulated by bio-available copper and vitamin A. - EastWest Healing

Sunlight or Redlight
Regular good light exposure is probably important for preventing the displacement of copper by iron. - Ray Peat

Things that lower iron
We are always shedding iron from intestines and skin cells. - Ray Peat (Patrick Timpone interview 2020-08)

Vitamin E and aspirin are two extremely effective ways of lowering iron levels in both tissues and brain. - Georgi Dinkov
‐-‐--------------------,------
"Low ferritin means low iron stores. Whether that means lower inflammation is not always clear but testing CRP and ESR would tell you that. In general, the lower the ferritin the lower inflammation since iron plays such a prominent role in inflammatory reactions." - Haidut
---------------------------------
HANS ON IRON:

Here's an article on how to interpret your iron test results: How to interpret your iron panel blood test for optimal energy and health » MENELITE
Your ferritin is higher than desired and your saturation is low. So this could mean you have inflammation and/or low copper. Copper is needed to mobilize the iron from stores, which will increase saturation.
Inflammation lowers saturation and increases ferritin. If you have inflammation, then it doesn't necessarily mean you have an iron overload, just because your ferritin is too high.
A TSH of 1.71 isn't bad, but it can be lower. Cold hands indicate that you have elevated noradrenaline. Noradrenaline can block the effect T3 and also convert T4 into rT3, which further inhibit T3's actions.
Carbs and salt are two of the best ways to lower noradrenaline.
Low iron, zinc and selenium can lead to low T3 levels, which might then increase the requirements of noradrenaline.
-------------------------

GEN ENERGY #60, at 26 minutes- iron discussion
--------------------

 

[Soren]

I have some random iron info, for both low and high, that I have saved:


IRON

RP: High Iron, particularly if it’s the Iron Saturation %, just like Prolactin, is a sign of high estrogen. Are you dealing with your thyroid first?

DR: “Estrogen and the hypoxia , and the low thyroid increasing the estrogen promoting the hypoxia, that is what’s making the iron accumulate and displace the copper. It’s not just a random iron overload situation right”

DR: “So the iron overload is actually hyperesteogenemia
RP: “I think so, in most cases”
Danny Roddy Clips
-------‐------------
think improving nutrition in general might be a better idea than addressing iron directly since people can have a high level of stored iron combined with a low level of red blood cells. One should be eating gelatin, liver, oysters, shrimps, fruits, cooked green vegetables, etc. (e.g.: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, copper, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. ). Here are a few articles/quotes which might help:

Ray Peat on copper deficiency and iron, their relationship
Ray Peat - Iron's dangers
Danny Roddy - Iron Overload, Perturbed Redox Balance, and Meddling Serotonin

On Anemia
Anemia in itself doesn't imply that there is a nutritional need for iron. - Ray Peat

It is possible to have too much iron in the blood while being anemic. - Ray Peat

Anemic means lacking blood, in the sense of not having enough red blood cells or hemoglobin. - Ray Peat

Most people define anemia as low iron, but should be classifying it as low bio-available copper causing increased saturation of iron in the tissues. - EastWest Healing

Thyroid
Abnormal thyroid status can affect ferritin level, without necessarily affecting your iron load. - Ray Peat

High estrogen
High estrogen causes hypoxia which in turn causes iron accumulation. - Danny Roddy (paraphrased from Ray Peat)

Copper and Vitamin A
Too much iron and too much stress makes us lose copper. -Ray Peat

The copper in oysters is protective against iron excess. - Ray Peat

Copper defends agains activated iron. Copper can turn ferrous iron back into the safer ferric iron. - Ray Peat

Vitamin A and bioavailable copper [from liver and shelfish] play a huge role in regulating iron ferrous to ferric iron. - EastWest Healing

Low iron and Low iron saturation –a sign your iron recycling programing is slowing down in response to a deficiency in bio-available copper [from liver and shelfish]. - East West Healing

Iron is regulated by bio-available copper and vitamin A. - EastWest Healing

Sunlight or Redlight
Regular good light exposure is probably important for preventing the displacement of copper by iron. - Ray Peat

Things that lower iron
We are always shedding iron from intestines and skin cells. - Ray Peat (Patrick Timpone interview 2020-08)

Vitamin E and aspirin are two extremely effective ways of lowering iron levels in both tissues and brain. - Georgi Dinkov
‐-‐--------------------,------
"Low ferritin means low iron stores. Whether that means lower inflammation is not always clear but testing CRP and ESR would tell you that. In general, the lower the ferritin the lower inflammation since iron plays such a prominent role in inflammatory reactions." - Haidut
---------------------------------
HANS ON IRON:

Here's an article on how to interpret your iron test results: How to interpret your iron panel blood test for optimal energy and health » MENELITE
Your ferritin is higher than desired and your saturation is low. So this could mean you have inflammation and/or low copper. Copper is needed to mobilize the iron from stores, which will increase saturation.
Inflammation lowers saturation and increases ferritin. If you have inflammation, then it doesn't necessarily mean you have an iron overload, just because your ferritin is too high.
A TSH of 1.71 isn't bad, but it can be lower. Cold hands indicate that you have elevated noradrenaline. Noradrenaline can block the effect T3 and also convert T4 into rT3, which further inhibit T3's actions.
Carbs and salt are two of the best ways to lower noradrenaline.
Low iron, zinc and selenium can lead to low T3 levels, which might then increase the requirements of noradrenaline.
-------------------------

GEN ENERGY #60, at 26 minutes- iron discussion
--------------------

This is all very helpful thank you.

I have listened to bits and pieces of these arguments before particularly the parts by East West Healing on copper.

It's good to review this and have it presented so clearly.

 

[geusterman]

I have some random iron info, for both low and high, that I have saved:


IRON

RP: High Iron, particularly if it’s the Iron Saturation %, just like Prolactin, is a sign of high estrogen. Are you dealing with your thyroid first?

DR: “Estrogen and the hypoxia , and the low thyroid increasing the estrogen promoting the hypoxia, that is what’s making the iron accumulate and displace the copper. It’s not just a random iron overload situation right”

DR: “So the iron overload is actually hyperesteogenemia
RP: “I think so, in most cases”
Danny Roddy Clips
-------‐------------
think improving nutrition in general might be a better idea than addressing iron directly since people can have a high level of stored iron combined with a low level of red blood cells. One should be eating gelatin, liver, oysters, shrimps, fruits, cooked green vegetables, etc. (e.g.: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, copper, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. ). Here are a few articles/quotes which might help:

Ray Peat on copper deficiency and iron, their relationship
Ray Peat - Iron's dangers
Danny Roddy - Iron Overload, Perturbed Redox Balance, and Meddling Serotonin

On Anemia
Anemia in itself doesn't imply that there is a nutritional need for iron. - Ray Peat

It is possible to have too much iron in the blood while being anemic. - Ray Peat

Anemic means lacking blood, in the sense of not having enough red blood cells or hemoglobin. - Ray Peat

Most people define anemia as low iron, but should be classifying it as low bio-available copper causing increased saturation of iron in the tissues. - EastWest Healing

Thyroid
Abnormal thyroid status can affect ferritin level, without necessarily affecting your iron load. - Ray Peat

High estrogen
High estrogen causes hypoxia which in turn causes iron accumulation. - Danny Roddy (paraphrased from Ray Peat)

Copper and Vitamin A
Too much iron and too much stress makes us lose copper. -Ray Peat

The copper in oysters is protective against iron excess. - Ray Peat

Copper defends agains activated iron. Copper can turn ferrous iron back into the safer ferric iron. - Ray Peat

Vitamin A and bioavailable copper [from liver and shelfish] play a huge role in regulating iron ferrous to ferric iron. - EastWest Healing

Low iron and Low iron saturation –a sign your iron recycling programing is slowing down in response to a deficiency in bio-available copper [from liver and shelfish]. - East West Healing

Iron is regulated by bio-available copper and vitamin A. - EastWest Healing

Sunlight or Redlight
Regular good light exposure is probably important for preventing the displacement of copper by iron. - Ray Peat

Things that lower iron
We are always shedding iron from intestines and skin cells. - Ray Peat (Patrick Timpone interview 2020-08)

Vitamin E and aspirin are two extremely effective ways of lowering iron levels in both tissues and brain. - Georgi Dinkov
‐-‐--------------------,------
"Low ferritin means low iron stores. Whether that means lower inflammation is not always clear but testing CRP and ESR would tell you that. In general, the lower the ferritin the lower inflammation since iron plays such a prominent role in inflammatory reactions." - Haidut
---------------------------------
HANS ON IRON:

Here's an article on how to interpret your iron test results: How to interpret your iron panel blood test for optimal energy and health » MENELITE
Your ferritin is higher than desired and your saturation is low. So this could mean you have inflammation and/or low copper. Copper is needed to mobilize the iron from stores, which will increase saturation.
Inflammation lowers saturation and increases ferritin. If you have inflammation, then it doesn't necessarily mean you have an iron overload, just because your ferritin is too high.
A TSH of 1.71 isn't bad, but it can be lower. Cold hands indicate that you have elevated noradrenaline. Noradrenaline can block the effect T3 and also convert T4 into rT3, which further inhibit T3's actions.
Carbs and salt are two of the best ways to lower noradrenaline.
Low iron, zinc and selenium can lead to low T3 levels, which might then increase the requirements of noradrenaline.
-------------------------

GEN ENERGY #60, at 26 minutes- iron discussion
--------------------

Sunny said:
think improving nutrition in general might be a better idea than addressing iron directly since people can have a high level of stored iron combined with a low level of red blood cells. One should be eating gelatin, liver, oysters, shrimps, fruits, cooked green vegetables, etc. (e.g.: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, copper, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. ). Here are a few articles/quotes which might help:

Let me share a quick story. We use truckers labs liquid multivitamin mineral as insurance. My daughter-in-law has no peristalsis in her digestive track. She stays very small and has to use Golightly to move her bowels. We were very concerned about absorption of necessary nutritional elements. We started supplying this Drucker multivitamin and the first thing she noticed after a month was stunning hair growth. Her hair is now thick and rich and grows quickly. So now all you have to do is figure out which of the 415 supplements is the one that triggered the hair growth.

 

[maillol]

Calcium only temporarily inhibits iron absorption after which there is a rebound effect that cancels it out.

Although Ca did not affect Fe uptake or DMT1 expression at 1.5 hours, FPN abundance at the basolateral membrane decreased, resulting in increased cellular Fe retention and decreased Fe efflux. After 4 hours, DMT1 and FPN expression increased and there was increased FPN at the membrane, suggesting a rebound effect. Thus, the effect of Ca on Fe absorption may be of short duration and adaptation may occur with time. This may explain why studies on long-term Ca supplementation of different groups fail to show any adverse effects on Fe status.

Calcium and iron absorption--mechanisms and public health relevance - PubMed

 

[sunny]

Sunny said:
think improving nutrition in general might be a better idea than addressing iron directly since people can have a high level of stored iron combined with a low level of red blood cells. One should be eating gelatin, liver, oysters, shrimps, fruits, cooked green vegetables, etc. (e.g.: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, copper, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. ). Here are a few articles/quotes which might help:

Let me share a quick story. We use truckers labs liquid multivitamin mineral as insurance. My daughter-in-law has no peristalsis in her digestive track. She stays very small and has to use Golightly to move her bowels. We were very concerned about absorption of necessary nutritional elements. We started supplying this Drucker multivitamin and the first thing she noticed after a month was stunning hair growth. Her hair is now thick and rich and grows quickly. So now all you have to do is figure out which of the 415 supplements is the one that triggered the hair growth.

That's really interesting.