Iron Deficiency Alters Serum Prolactin (high Prolactin)

[sunraiser]

I figured this might interest you @Douglas Ek

Relationship between vitamin A and iron in the liver. - PubMed - NCBI

Low dietary iron, but not low vitamin A intake, affected hemoglobin, hematocrit and red blood cell counts but not serum vitamin A levels. Mean serum vitamin A levels were not significantly lower in groups fed high dietary iron. High dietary iron was also associated with lower mean liver vitamin A levels; these differences were statistically significant only for the low vitamin A diet group. A high vitamin A intake was associated with a significantly lower mean hepatic iron level for the high dietary iron intake group. These data support the hypothesis that vitamin A is involved in the regulation of iron release from the liver.

This relationship could mean that those low in iron are adversely pressured by vitamin A, and those with iron overload might have a very heightened vit A requirement (hypothetically).

Maybe you'd need less iron if you didn't supplement vitamin A?

 

[Mauritio]

Iron Deficiency in Infancy Predicts Altered Serum Prolactin Response 10 Years Later

There’s many studies linking iron deficiency to disabled dopamine function resulting in symptoms as fatigue, brain fog, ADD and RLS all of which are shared symptoms of dopamine deficiency and iron deficiency.

As we know high prolactin is symptom of low dopamine. Another thing we know high prolactin causes is alopecia. You know what a common iron deficiency symptom is? Hair loss.

Also iron deficiency is linked to cold hands and feet. Probably by causing poor thyroid function since the liver rely on iron for the proper function of deiodinaise enzyme which primary function is to convert T4 to the more active T3 thus resulting in elevated TSH.
Lower than normal T3 would result in lower than normal DHT thus iron deficiency might contribute to lower DHT levels aswell. But on labs showing elevated T levels.

@Dezertfox among with many others here on the forum posted lab works where his prolactin, TSH and T was all high. His doctor suspected it was a adenoms on his pituitary. He later came to me since Ive previously written lot about iron. And told me he had a lowish ferritin at 30. I my self have had low ferritin and also elevated TSH, prolactin and Test levels.
So I got dezertfox to supplement with iron for awhile and one of his symptoms was in fact hair loss. Guess what. His hairloss went away. I havent heard from dezertfox in awhile and I’m intrigued to know now how he’s doing after restoring his iron levels from suboptimal.

But the funny thing about it is how important low prolactin, TSH and high dopamine and DHT seems to be to ray peat and peaters. But they all are against iron because of its oxidating effects. I argue that iron is not dangerous if you dont have a compromised anti-oxidant system in place. Look at the american diet high iron low anti oxidants. Thats the reason for diabetes and metabolic disorders and not normal iron levels. Its anti-oxidant deficiency that makes iron dangerous.

And so many people come here with symptoms and lab results indicating iron deficiency and everyone recommends against iron. So this people try everything with no results and are stuck in missery.

I know dezertfox was in touch with haidut sending PMs about his health problems and that his doctor wanted to prescribe him an anti androgen. The doctor should had prescribed and iron supplement instead. People need to start recognizing this as a real problem and statrt to adress the real cause of irons destructive nature. Low vitamin C and vitamin E. Makes sense why vit C would allow the body to absorb more iron. Because with more anti oxidant power the body is not afraid to absorb more iron.

Sorry for typos. Written on phone at work.

@haidut any thoughts on this?

Interesting, I really think the dopamine system is involved in iron status somehow as I am taking lactoferrin for 5 days ,but every time after I take it I get symptoms of low dopamin like lethargy and depression ,which is alleviated by a dopamin agonist like diamant... Can somebody make sense of that ?

 

[Luk3]

230 is way too high and I never said you should aim for anything remotely in that area. Obviously a case like yours blood donation and restrictig iron untill you lowered your iron is warranted. That doesnt mean someone with a ferritin of 50 shoud donate blood. But people here do that because people scare each other with nonsense. I myself managed to increase my iron to 190 and I donated blood, took some zinc, vitamin E, retinol and B12 and my ferritin went back down to 90 within a month and hemoglobin went from 136 to 155.

I actually did donate a few months back. I have also lowered dietary iron and took lactoferrin for one month. Just had another ferritin test and it came back at 63! Wasn't expecting such a big drop. I'm due to donate again next week, but I think I'll cancel given that result. Haemoglobin is at 164, that's up from the when my ferritin was high.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I actually did donate a few months back. I have also lowered dietary iron and took lactoferrin for one month. Just had another ferritin test and it came back at 63! Wasn't expecting such a big drop. I'm due to donate again next week, but I think I'll cancel given that result. Haemoglobin is at 164, that's up from the when my ferritin was high.

Yes donating blood can help stimulate hemoglobin production. If you feel good 63 is not to bad. I think 50-100 is a good range for men over 100 is not good. Even close to 100 probably not that good but in general, not a huge problem. The most important thing to keep low ferritin but also avoiding symptoms of deficiency is good vitamin A and copper status as they help the body utilize iron. They are necessary for the synthesis of ceruloplasmin aka Ferroxidase which is the body's main handler of iron. Taking a ceruloplasmin test at some point is good practice. Especially if you have symptoms of low iron status. Silica and boron are also good stimulators of ceruloplasmin synthesis and copper utilization. As studies show supplementing with them along with vitamin A and eating liver high in copper all have been shown to increase ceruloplasmin. Vitamin D and zinc has been shown to lower ceruloplasmin. High vitamin D depletes liver vitamin A and high zinc depletes copper.
If you're interested both chrismasterjohnson and Morley Robbins go through how this works and how important ferroxidase is. Iron is at the center of a lot of health issues as Ray also says. And you want to get this right. Positive nutrients to prevent dysregulation of iron seems to be Copper, retinol, magnesium, vitamin E, silica and boron.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Interesting, I really think the dopamine system is involved in iron status somehow as I am taking lactoferrin for 5 days ,but every time after I take it I get symptoms of low dopamin like lethargy and depression ,which is alleviated by a dopamin agonist like diamant... Can somebody make sense of that ?

There are 100 of studies showing iron is an integral part of dopamine production in the brain especially the dopamine neuron dense substantia nigra which is extremely rich in iron. Low iron is also linked to ADHD (treated with dopamine agonists), Parkinsonism has region specific iron-dysregulation in the brain. And also restless leg syndrome which is also treated with dopamine agonists and is related to low dopamine is linked to low iron. Like I showed 3 studies where low iron is also linked with high prolactin (low dopamine). Anyone who is rejecting all this research is a denier. Funny how pro dopamine ray peat is. Anyway iron dysregulation is more than just low iron. Copper, vitamin A, and many other substances help the body utilize iron properly by boosting the main transporter ferroxidase (Ceruloplasmin) and so these nutrients also increase dopamine by boosting iron utilization. It's when these nutrients are deficient that iron becomes a problem it just starts building up in tissues. Iron is key in cellular respiration and function of every cell in your body. But I now believe that people tend to have a dysregulation of iron function instead of iron deficiency. I previously had "low iron" and had all the symptoms I took iron pills and it helped but whenever I stopped iron the symptoms came back even though my ferritin went up. Every time I stopped iron my serum-iron fell. What you want to have are high serum-iron and lower ferritin. It mean's your body is using and absorbing iron but not storing it. I found out I had low ferroxidase and thus now I focus my diet to increase ferroxidase and now I don't need supplements anymore. I have more energy and starting to feel fantastic.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I figured this might interest you @Douglas Ek

Relationship between vitamin A and iron in the liver. - PubMed - NCBI

Low dietary iron, but not low vitamin A intake, affected hemoglobin, hematocrit and red blood cell counts but not serum vitamin A levels. Mean serum vitamin A levels were not significantly lower in groups fed high dietary iron. High dietary iron was also associated with lower mean liver vitamin A levels; these differences were statistically significant only for the low vitamin A diet group. A high vitamin A intake was associated with a significantly lower mean hepatic iron level for the high dietary iron intake group. These data support the hypothesis that vitamin A is involved in the regulation of iron release from the liver.

This relationship could mean that those low in iron are adversely pressured by vitamin A, and those with iron overload might have a very heightened vit A requirement (hypothetically).

Maybe you'd need less iron if you didn't supplement vitamin A?

Actually, it's the opposite. Vitamin A is needed for ferroxidase synthesis which is how the body utilizes iron. Along with copper. Higher vitamin A means higher ferroxidase which means better utilization and absorption of dietary iron which means less need for an iron supplement. Dysfunction of ferroxidase is probably one reason how iron overload exhibits its dangerous effects by storing iron everywhere and storing it in tissues and organs leading to organ failure. Without ferroxidase, iron can't be utilized. If you can't utilize it will just get stored as ferritin in your tissues. Without copper, your body can't make hephaestin which is necessary to transport dietary iron from intestinal enterocytes into the circulatory system. And without copper you can't make ceruloplasmin which is ferroxidase 1 the bodys main iron utilizer and transporter.

Ferroxidase - Wikipedia

 

[sunraiser]

Actually, it's the opposite. Vitamin A is needed for ferroxidase synthesis which is how the body utilizes iron. Along with copper. Higher vitamin A means higher ferroxidase which means better utilization and absorption of dietary iron which means less need for an iron supplement. Dysfunction of ferroxidase is probably one reason how iron overload exhibits its dangerous effects by storing iron everywhere and storing it in tissues and organs leading to organ failure. Without ferroxidase, iron can't be utilized. If you can't utilize it will just get stored as ferritin in your tissues. Without copper, your body can't make hephaestin which is necessary to transport dietary iron from intestinal enterocytes into the circulatory system. And without copper you can't make ceruloplasmin which is ferroxidase 1 the bodys main iron utilizer and transporter.

Ferroxidase - Wikipedia

But there has to be a point of diminishing or negative return, though. Like magnesium is both an agonist and antagonist of calcium, depending on the intake and internal balance.

When you look at the low level mechanisms and connections in the body it feels like everything is a cofactor for everything else. I don't think a compound can have an ever increasing positive trend with heightened intake, as it'll eventually deplete another cofactor.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Mauritio]

There are 100 of studies showing iron is an integral part of dopamine production in the brain especially the dopamine neuron dense substantia nigra which is extremely rich in iron. Low iron is also linked to ADHD (treated with dopamine agonists), Parkinsonism has region specific iron-dysregulation in the brain. And also restless leg syndrome which is also treated with dopamine agonists and is related to low dopamine is linked to low iron. Like I showed 3 studies where low iron is also linked with high prolactin (low dopamine). Anyone who is rejecting all this research is a denier. Funny how pro dopamine ray peat is. Anyway iron dysregulation is more than just low iron. Copper, vitamin A, and many other substances help the body utilize iron properly by boosting the main transporter ferroxidase (Ceruloplasmin) and so these nutrients also increase dopamine by boosting iron utilization. It's when these nutrients are deficient that iron becomes a problem it just starts building up in tissues. Iron is key in cellular respiration and function of every cell in your body. But I now believe that people tend to have a dysregulation of iron function instead of iron deficiency. I previously had "low iron" and had all the symptoms I took iron pills and it helped but whenever I stopped iron the symptoms came back even though my ferritin went up. Every time I stopped iron my serum-iron fell. What you want to have are high serum-iron and lower ferritin. It mean's your body is using and absorbing iron but not storing it. I found out I had low ferroxidase and thus now I focus my diet to increase ferroxidase and now I don't need supplements anymore. I have more energy and starting to feel fantastic.

I do not really doubt that and start to believe that iron should be given more attention .

But I wanted to know if someone could explain my supposedly low iron symptoms from lactoferrin ,since it is at least partly saturated with iron and should give my body more iron. Plus it should take iron where it is needed inside the body so I guess I should feel less iron deficiency symptoms and not more , according to this thread.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I do not really doubt that and start to believe that iron should be given more attention .

But I wanted to know if someone could explain my supposedly low iron symptoms from lactoferrin ,since it is at least partly saturated with iron and should give my body more iron. Plus it should take iron where it is needed inside the body so I guess I should feel less iron deficiency symptoms and not more , according to this thread.

But you take apolactoferrin? Maybe it’s drawing iron somehow. Morley recommends it to lower iron. I dunno im not that well educated on the function of lactoferrin other than that it should sorta have similair effects to ceruloplasmin. But probably ceruloplasmin would be a better option to boost. Dunno But googling this is what i found

An iron-binding protein that was originally characterized as a milk protein. It is widely distributed in secretory fluids and is found in the neutrophilic granules of LEUKOCYTES. The N-terminal part of lactoferrin possesses a serine protease which functions to inactivate the TYPE III SECRETION SYSTEM used by bacteria to export virulence proteins for host cell invasion.

So maybe it just binda iron and removes it. Maybe it doesnt help utilize it. I think that’s ferroxidase and transferrins job.

 

[ddjd]

We know aspirin increases tyrosine hydroxylase

do we? i love aspirin but none of the symptomns from taking aspirin feel like increased dopamine

 

[Douglas Ek]

do we? i love aspirin but none of the symptomns from taking aspirin feel like increased dopamine

That’s what research haidut posted. I have felt but usually from lower doses. Higher doses can cause fatigue in me

 

[Momado965]

The fact that I myself had high prolactin and in my opinion low ferritin at 50 and once I raised it closer to 100 my prolactin went down my tsh went down I felt healthier. There’s a lot of other people here with exact same symptoms and results like i mentioned dezertfox had low ferritin at 30 and high prolactin above range. He was experiencing hair loss. Iron removed his hairloss symptoms and lowered prolactin. I have 30 other private messages since 1 year back here on ray peat forum with people contacting me with high tsh, high prolactin and low ferritin. All same thing happens when they take iron. Prolactin goes down. Symptoms goes away. What is your point?
Dont be stubborn and ignorant
Obviouslt a lot of people are struggling with this and have low thyroid function and high prolactin from low iron stores. You’re just ruining their lives propagating blood donations and aspirin, coffee with food. Just because it works for you doesnt mean it works for everyone.
Google iron and dopamine NCBI and read all the studies.
Besides how can babies be immune to the effects of having such high iron concentrations in their blood? Probably because their antioxidant systems are stellar with very low PUFA

My ferittin is about 30. I checked it three months ago. I bought two tabs of iron glycinate with 60 pills each. Havent tried any of them so far. If I were to take iron whats a good dose to resolve the low ferittin issue?

 

[BigChad]

I take 1000 IU of vitamin E every day now. I know Haidut posted something very favorable towards vitamin E awhile back quoting the Schute brothers who used massive doses to help cure people of various woes. Haidut also toyed around with a high T protocol which included 2000 mg (not 2000 IU) of vitamin E every day.

I used aspirin for a bit but stopped due to bruising. I also took vitamin K but still got the bruising.

And yes - I think it is very important to question everyone, including people you respect a lot (Ray Peat) and even yourself.

I am very honest with myself and open to admitting I am wrong and even learning from people I mostly disagree with. I think that is why I am fairly confident I will eventually heal myself.

I heard vitamin E in high amounts can cause sodium depletion?
How do you deal with this, using that large a vitamin E dose everyday?
From my understanding, high sodium intake causes increased excretion of calcium. So do you take a calcium supplement or something then? I wonder if too high amounts of calcium, have inhibitory effects on other minerals like zinc, phosphorus, magnesium, sodium or potassium? So it seems like by doing a large megadose of any one single vitamin/mineral, it can trigger a bigger problem, even if you continue to add in more minerals to rectify the issue. basically it seems like megadosing one nutrient requires you to eventually megadose a bunch more, and there are only so many things you can megadose.

 

[BigChad]

That’s what research haidut posted. I have felt but usually from lower doses. Higher doses can cause fatigue in me

i thought ceruloplasmin can be increased from inflammation as well? zinc/vitamin d lower inflammation while iron and copper id assume would raise it?

also, have you heard anything regarding b vitamin interactions with iron? i read that b1 depletes thiamine and b6 depletes calcium, copper and iron. while vitamin c depletes copper, zinc and calcium.
i can confirm i developed hypothyroidism/anemia with long term use of zma/zinc. actually, the anemia/thyroid issue wasn't too bad, I was still able to walk around, go to the gym once a week, do more activites, but I was taking centrums adult multivitamin at the same time, which has ferrous iron, copper, etc. I eventually did more research and wanted to cut out the centrum multivitamin due to the food colors and other issues with it. During the last year I was also using green tea extract 250mg every other day which depletes iron, 1000mg vitamin c daily which helps iron but drains copper, and 250mcg molybdenum + 2mg copper once a week.

When I took out the centrum multivitamin, i still continued the zma.
That point, was when things got much, much worse for me. First time in the last 6+ years that I went 3 weeks without lifting at the gym. crazy joint pains, leg aches, could barely walk from the bed to the kitchen without pain. it was joint pains as well as nerve damage type pains. I was only using one pill of zma which is 3.5mg b6, 10mg zinc 150mg magnesium. stomach bloating. my diet was low copper, moderate iron, high zinc too. 12oz ground beef, 8oz greek yogurt nonfat, whole milk, whey protein. brita filter for water, and 1000mg vitamin c daily too. So my diet and supplement regime was basically drastically reducing my iron and copper. I was wondering if you have any insight into b vitamin interactions with other vitamins and minerals. I dont think any of the b vitamins are safe in high doses. Ive done 100mg niacinamide doses and they made me really sleepy for the entire day after taking them. b6 was something I had no idea of until the last week. that b6 can deplete copper, iron, calcium, b1 can deplete manganese. now this makes a lot more sense, why when i started zma, it went very well for the first 4 to 5 months of using it, yet after that things continuously went downhill in many ways. drastically decreasing performance in the gym, at work, etc.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

@Douglas Ek Im interested in what you have to say about iron but whenever I use the search function and enter your name nothing pops up. I have read that ferritin/transferrin is a good indicator of iron status. Im currently taking niacinamide, androsterone and diamant. Im going to give your theory a shot and see if it benefits me in the same way.

 

[Andy316]

Can anyone please tell me if I have low iron, my ferritin levels are ok I guess.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Can anyone please tell me if I have low iron, my ferritin levels are ok I guess.

You have lowered iron due to inflammation.Your ferritin is high,but ferritin is an iffy indicator.
i would abstain from iron supplementation for now and resolve inflammation causes.

And yes to the general tendency of this Thread.Iron is very important,in inflammatory disease
it is lowered physiologically,without presence of overt inflammation it is necessary,
for thyroid function,for Oxidative metabolism,so all of you need some of it,through meat,
or liver,without coffee.
and Peat-like diet with the milk,the oj, doesnt support Iron intake nearly good enough.
A lot of Peats work is written as a kind of tautology,and thats why it seems so compelling.
He is a good thinker,but has flaws in details like iron need.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Can anyone please tell me if I have low iron, my ferritin levels are ok I guess.

Your iron is certainly not low. All values are pretty much "in range," but that doesn't mean much. The low transferrin and so called "high normal" ferritin actually point to high iron stores. My personal opinion is that ferritin is far too high.

Also noticed that they raised the lab range for ferrritin AGAIN. It used to cap out at 300, then 400. Now 500? Why not just cap it out at 1000 and have everyone risk serious and permanent liver damage from so called "in range" ferritin?

Chris Kresser's presentation on iron talks about the issues with so called "high normal" iron, most at the 10 minute mark-

I'd also recommend E.D. Weinberg's "Exposing the Hidden Dangers of Iron." Excellent book.

 

[tankasnowgod]

A lot of Peats work is written as a kind of tautology,and thats why it seems so compelling.
He is a good thinker,but has flaws in details like iron need.

I don't think you've ever read any of Peat's work. Here is his article on Iron- Iron's Dangers

Which part, specifically, do you believe is incorrect?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I don't think you've ever read any of Peat's work. Here is his article on Iron- Iron's Dangers

Which part, specifically, do you believe is incorrect?

I actually read 5 to 10 of his texts,also the partly annotated footnotes.
I didnt consider two things.First,that the U.S.A. has iron fortification,in germany,there is no such program.
Also i projected an idea of his belief partly from the "the milk,the oj" Diet,which,despite oysters once a week,
is iron depleted and will produce sickness.Lack of Brain Iron is severely disabling,and once that set in,"Patients"
without capable guidance will incur healthdefects they cant comprehend the point of origin of.
After all,We consume way too much Iron.
Also his references to the dark ages of biology,1920,1950,turn of the last century;these guys didnt know much,
there was just a paucity of data,And Peat had his true formative years ages ago.He is a product of his time,
a time where everything seemed possible,envisioning a new world of possibility.