Iodine making hypothyroid symptoms worse?

[robertf]

Hi! My t3 and t4 are both at the very low end of normal range, my TSH is okay, though. Lately I've been noticing that iodine is making my simptoms worse, such as feeling cold, numb extremities, fatigue, brain fog, slow gut motility, etc. Can that be the case? I'm taking about kelp pills or even using iodized salt. I eat 2-3 brazil nuts a day. Large dietary beta carotene intake some time ago was definitely a contributing factor, too. Thanks in advance!

Hi! My t3 and t4 are both at the very low end of normal range, my TSH is okay, though. Lately I've been noticing that iodine is making my simptoms worse, such as feeling cold, numb extremities, fatigue, brain fog, slow gut motility, etc. Can that be the case? I'm taking about kelp pills or even using iodized salt. I eat 2-3 brazil nuts a day. Large dietary beta carotene intake some time ago was definitely a contributing factor, too. Thanks in advan

 

[Jam]

What is your experience with Nascent iodine if any?

I always found Lugol, pure KI or a combination (custom made) of KI+Lugol to work better. And it doesn´t justify its super high price.

Totally agree. But instead of making a custom combo, I just normally take a few drops of each (Lugol's and SSKI), depending on needs. In my opinion, Nascent iodine is probably a scam, being nothing more than sodium iodide or some such.

 

[Amazoniac]

I think I should make an explicit statement about my views on iodine here for any new readers that haven't had a chance to read what else I've written on the subject on this forum in the past, and also for those who may be misinterpreting by views.

So first off, there are two principal forms of iodine: Molecular iodine (I2), and the reduced form called Iodide (I-).

Unless there is a known iodine deficiency, I do not believe that iodine or iodide should be used as a nutritional supplement.

If there is a known deficiency, the only form of iodine I would recommend is Lugol's iodine, which contains both I2 and I-. 2 drops of the 5% daily should be more than enough to reach sufficiency. When in doubt, selenium as selenomethionine should always be taken along with the iodine.

Then there is the quite broad area of medicinal usage of iodine, principally in the form of I-. During the early half of the last century, the literature produced on this subject was relatively vast, but it has been suppressed and is difficult, although not impossible, to locate some of it. There is also the large body of research recently produced by Abraham, G.E., Flechas et al. Suffice it to say that generally speaking, it has been suppressed for the very same reasons that say Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine are being suppressed today. The root motives are the same.

The most important take-home message about iodine/iodide is that it is a fantastic anti-septic, anti-oxidant (the good kind, I2 even more so) and anti-inflammatory, principally due to the fact that it substitutes for chlorine in the myeloperoxidase-produced hypohalous acids generated in activated neutrophils to fight off pathogens. Hypoiodous acid is far less toxic to host tissue than hypochlorous acid.

Finally, I would like to highlight that it is absolutely irresponsible to make gratuitous blanket statements rooted in personal anecdote and appeal-to-authority logical fallacies such as "iodine causes hypothyroidism", as Mr. bull**** is on the record to have done here in the very recent past. "I had (what I think were) hypothyroid symptoms when I took iodine, so iodine must cause hypothyroidism in everyone, and since (I wrongly think that) Peat says iodine causes hypothyroidism, iodine is bad." Do your own research and most importantly, "Perceive, Think, Act." Just stop spewing the typical big pharma-backed propaganda, please.

Jam, reach sufficiency of what? Babies are deficient? I think that the iodophiles shoot for 'saturation'.

It does suppress the metabolism of some people, it's difficult to reap those benefits when the body is being shut down. However, having supplemental thyroid hormones available to use alongside with it as needed can be a way to mitigate it. If too much iodine became inhibiting, it's possible to rescue with external hormones. Conversely, if the person exaggerates on the hormones, the iodine can be dosed in a Fuku range, forcing the body to rely on the hormones in excess and clear them.

Nice hood, by the way.

 

[Makrosky]

Jam, reach sufficiency of what? Babies are deficient? I think that the iodophiles shoot for 'saturation'.

It does suppress the metabolism of some people, it's difficult to reap those benefits when the body is being shut down. However, having supplemental thyroid hormones available to use alongside with it as needed can be a way to mitigate it. If too much iodine became inhibiting, it's possible to rescue with external hormones. Conversely, if the person exaggerates on the hormones, the iodine can be dosed in a Fuku range, forcing the body to rely on the hormones in excess and clear them.

Nice hood, by the way.

Dr. Brownstein treats (or used to) patients with only Iodine or NDT + Iodine, depending on the case. So yes, they are not mutually exclusive.

If by shut down you mean Wolf-Chaikoff reaction, that has been debunked many times. If Iodine suppresses metabolism, it must be because other means.

With iodine there is no risk of shuting down endogenous production of thyroid hormone via feedback loop, but with any kind of thyroid supp you certainly can.

 

[Makrosky]

Totally agree. But instead of making a custom combo, I just normally take a few drops of each (Lugol's and SSKI), depending on needs. In my opinion, Nascent iodine is probably a scam, being nothing more than sodium iodide or some such.

IIRC nascent effects could be felt much faster. So there might be something to it. Apparently a big problem is that 99% of nascent sold is crap and not done properly.

Another thing people used to do (and I've tried it) is putting some magnets (yes, normal plain magnets from the hardware shop) attached to the bottle of Lugol or KI and it modified the effects. By that you could take higher doses of Lugol without any kind of detox reaction. Weird thing.

 

[Jam]

Jam, reach sufficiency of what? Babies are deficient? I think that the iodophiles shoot for 'saturation'.

It does suppress the metabolism of some people, it's difficult to reap those benefits when the body is being shut down. However, having supplemental thyroid hormones available to use alongside with it as needed can be a way to mitigate it. If too much iodine became inhibiting, it's possible to rescue with external hormones. Conversely, if the person exaggerates on the hormones, the iodine can be dosed in a Fuku range, forcing the body to rely on the hormones in excess and clear them.

Nice hood, by the way.

Not sure about "saturation" or how to really determine sufficiency, I'm not sure anyone really has a definitive answer. and it's not really an area I have delved into very much. My usage of iodine has been purely for medicinal purposes. That said, a couple drops of 5% Lugol's seems safe for pretty much anyone not eating tons of seaweed on a daily basis. But if bad side effects do occur at such dosages, it would probably be best to discontinue the iodine and have the thyroid tested.

 

[Jam]

IIRC nascent effects could be felt much faster. So there might be something to it. Apparently a big problem is that 99% of nascent sold is crap and not done properly.

Another thing people used to do (and I've tried it) is putting some magnets (yes, normal plain magnets from the hardware shop) attached to the bottle of Lugol or KI and it modified the effects. By that you could take higher doses of Lugol without any kind of detox reaction. Weird thing.

To be honest, the only "nascent"-type product I have felt anything from is Magnascent, probably due to it being, in my opinion, a tincture of elemental iodine (hence the typical brownish color). Other "nascent" products I have tried did absolutely nothing for me. This said, I am not convinced that all nascent iodines are a hoax -- some may be legit, although I have never seen a scientific validation of them.

I've seen people experimenting with magnets on curezone, but it didn't really interest me as I can take 500mg+ of Lugol's without any side effects.

 

[Jam]

If by shut down you mean Wolf-Chaikoff reaction, that has been debunked many times. If Iodine suppresses metabolism, it must be because other means.

Yep, the Wolff-Chaikoff effect has been fully debunked and probably only applies to huge intravenous doses. The Wolff-Chaikoff study on iodine is the equivalent of the retracted Lancet studies attempting to discredit hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19.

 

[Jam]

Nice hood, by the way.

Thanks. I will probably give it a bit more sugar next time though...

 

[scrubolio]

have you guys had any experience with Iosol? which seems to be iodine and ammonium iodide?

 

[Amazoniac]

Dr. Brownstein treats (or used to) patients with only Iodine or NDT + Iodine, depending on the case. So yes, they are not mutually exclusive.

If by shut down you mean Wolf-Chaikoff reaction, that has been debunked many times. If Iodine suppresses metabolism, it must be because other means.

With iodine there is no risk of shuting down endogenous production of thyroid hormone via feedback loop, but with any kind of thyroid supp you certainly can.

I mean impairing the metabolism while promoting immunity. There can be detectable changes at low doses. I think that permanent harm in susceptible persons is rare, the cases that experience adversities reverse fast on withdrawal.

- Effect of low dose iodide supplementation on thyroid function in potentially susceptible subjects: are dietary iodide levels in Britain acceptable?

- Iodide induces thyroid autoimmunity in patients with endemic goitre: a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial

 

[Sumbody]

@Jam You seem quite knowledgeable about Iodine and I have a question about something I experienced many years ago while trying to use Iodoral.

I was using Iodoral 12.5mg and basically from the first dose it caused me to have very loose stool. I continued to take the Iodoral for about a month after and even pushing the dose up to 25mg once.

At the time I may have had similar loose stools on a morning after a night of heavy beer drinking. I attributed that to the alcohol use. But the Iodoral seemed to make this near permanent now.

I suspected some bacterial issues, as both alcohol and Iodine have antibacterial properties. But it was the Iodine that seemed to ramp this up and I took the Iodoral for atleast a month after hoping the Iodine would kill off any bacterial issues that I thought it had disrupted.

After stopping the Iodine, I would go on to have very loose stools and crazy IBS symptoms that I really had never had before. This lasted about an entire year until I ended up taking antibiotics that for the most part resolved the issue.

What would you hypothesize was at play here? I'm interested in taking Iodine again, but perhaps only a drop or two a day of Lugols. I have read about other people having a similar reaction to Iodine but never found any information on why it occurs.

 

[Jam]

@Jam You seem quite knowledgeable about Iodine and I have a question about something I experienced many years ago while trying to use Iodoral.

I was using Iodoral 12.5mg and basically from the first dose it caused me to have very loose stool. I continued to take the Iodoral for about a month after and even pushing the dose up to 25mg once.

At the time I may have had similar loose stools on a morning after a night of heavy beer drinking. I attributed that to the alcohol use. But the Iodoral seemed to make this near permanent now.

I suspected some bacterial issues, as both alcohol and Iodine have antibacterial properties. But it was the Iodine that seemed to ramp this up and I took the Iodoral for atleast a month after hoping the Iodine would kill off any bacterial issues that I thought it had disrupted.

After stopping the Iodine, I would go on to have very loose stools and crazy IBS symptoms that I really had never had before. This lasted about an entire year until I ended up taking antibiotics that for the most part resolved the issue.

What would you hypothesize was at play here? I'm interested in taking Iodine again, but perhaps only a drop or two a day of Lugols. I have read about other people having a similar reaction to Iodine but never found any information on why it occurs.

Well, Iodoral reaches the intestines (probably as far down as the colon) as it a coated tablet, and it could disturb the micobiota. Lugol's, when taken on an empty stomach in (distilled or mineral, never tap!) water, is mostly absorbed by the stomach, and definitely does not get past the small intestine, where its antiseptic and antifungal qualities are beneficial. I'm not a big fan of Iodoral.

Iodoral, Other ingredients: Micosolle®, a silica-based excipient containing a non-ionic surfactant, microcristaline cellulose, vegetable stearins and pharmaceutical glaze.

 

[Sumbody]

Well, Iodoral reaches the intestines (and probably as far down as the colon) as it a coated tablet, and it could disturb the micobiota. Lugol's, when taken on an empty stomach in (distilled or mineral, never tap!) water, does not get past the stomach, definitely not past the small intestine, where its antiseptic and antifungal qualities are beneficial. I'm not a big fan of Iodoral...

Yes, I typically drink spring water, albeit from a plastic bottle unfortunately.

But anyways was considering a drop or two of Lugols in a small amount of water. You mentioned it being best taken at night?

Thanks for the response. I have always wondered about my experience to Iodine in the past. I feel a little more confident about trying it again but in this case using Lugols instead.

 

[Jam]

Yes, I typically drink spring water, albeit from a plastic bottle unfortunately.

But anyways was considering a drop or two of Lugols in a small amount of water. You mentioned it being best taken at night?

Thanks for the response. I have always wondered about my experience to Iodine in the past. I feel a little more confident about trying it again but in this case using Lugols instead.

Yeah I always take Lugol"s before bed, the antihistaminic property chills me out. YMMV though.

 

[Infinite]

Also, iodine is the same as coffee in regards of glycogen. Too early in the day without proper calories ingested and used to replenish glycogen stores → stress reaction

There is a recent thread about how to make cofee work, check it. All that applies to it I have found to be true for iodine.

could you link that thread on coffee?

 

[Makrosky]

could you link that thread on coffee?

Sorry I can't see it now but I readed it a few days ago. If you search by "coffee" and "sugar" and sort it by date it should appear. It had a very clearly identifiable title.

 

[Dr. B]

I think I should make an explicit statement about my views on iodine here for any new readers that haven't had a chance to read what else I've written on the subject on this forum in the past, and also for those who may be misinterpreting by views.

So first off, there are two principal forms of iodine: Molecular iodine (I2), and the reduced form called Iodide (I-).

Unless there is a known iodine deficiency, I do not believe that iodine or iodide should be used as a nutritional supplement.

If there is a known deficiency, the only form of iodine I would recommend is Lugol's iodine, which contains both I2 and I-. 2 drops of the 5% daily should be more than enough to reach sufficiency. When in doubt, selenium as selenomethionine should always be taken along with the iodine.

Then there is the quite broad area of medicinal usage of iodine, principally in the form of I-. During the early half of the last century, the literature produced on this subject was relatively vast, but it has been suppressed and is difficult, although not impossible, to locate some of it. There is also the large body of research recently produced by Abraham, G.E., Flechas et al. Suffice it to say that generally speaking, it has been suppressed for the very same reasons that say Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine are being suppressed today. The root motives are the same.

The most important take-home message about iodine/iodide is that it is a fantastic anti-septic, anti-oxidant (the good kind, I2 even more so) and anti-inflammatory, principally due to the fact that it substitutes for chlorine in the myeloperoxidase-produced hypohalous acids generated in activated neutrophils to fight off pathogens. Hypoiodous acid is far less toxic to host tissue than hypochlorous acid.

Finally, I would like to highlight that it is absolutely irresponsible to make gratuitous blanket statements rooted in personal anecdote and appeal-to-authority logical fallacies such as "iodine causes hypothyroidism", as Mr. bull**** is on the record to have done here in the very recent past. "I had (what I think were) hypothyroid symptoms when I took iodine, so iodine must cause hypothyroidism in everyone, and since (I wrongly think that) Peat says iodine causes hypothyroidism, iodine is bad." Do your own research and most importantly, "Perceive, Think, Act." Just stop spewing the typical big pharma-backed propaganda, please.

For the record, Peats views on iodine are just as strict as his views on iron and PUFA. I even checked with him regarding the distinction between IodIDE vs IodINE and as I suspected, he confirmed he has never approved of supplementing several milligram doses of iodide or iodine. Theres numerous youtube videos where you can hear, straight out of Peats mouth, that he thinks 500mcg iodine on a daily basis is harmful, and even twice the rda daily is harmful long term. He thinks Abraham and Brownstein are twisting data to sell their products. The human body works the same and similar substances usually have similar effects. Danny Roddy has also said he felt the coldest hes ever felt when he was supplementing iodine thinking it would help his thyroid. These are guys who are considered experts on metabolism and themselves have very good metabolisms. Maybe iodine could have useful effects in people with certain diseases, or excess gut bacteria etc. There are many nutrients big pharma/fda does have upper limits for which Ray agrees with, or even thinks are too high. for example their claims on upper limits for iron, iodine, pufa, and many other nutrients are far higher than Peat approves. I completely agree with doing your own research, trying things for yourself, coming to your own conclusions about nutrients or anything else whether it agrees with Peat or not... however if Peat agrees or disagrees with something it should be mentioned. Like there's threads about low vitamin A intakes, high PUFA diets which are in the "Anti Peat" section of the forums... which shows that yeah, you can and should have your own views, but it should still be clarified if something is outside of Peats thoughts. I mean Haidut said he specifically buys non iodized salt from the store. So you have three guys including Peat who have done tons of research, tons of experimenting who dont like iodine. You cant simply say, I like using large amounts of iodine/iron or pufa therefore Peat agrees

Dr. Brownstein treats (or used to) patients with only Iodine or NDT + Iodine, depending on the case. So yes, they are not mutually exclusive.

If by shut down you mean Wolf-Chaikoff reaction, that has been debunked many times. If Iodine suppresses metabolism, it must be because other means.

With iodine there is no risk of shuting down endogenous production of thyroid hormone via feedback loop, but with any kind of thyroid supp you certainly can.

what mechanisms do you think iodine usage causes the hypothyroidism in many? Ray seems to think it happens in most people or everyone... like when I look up the wolf chaikoff effect it seems that is what occurs except I think wolf chaikoff people believe the thyroid resumes normal activity after 2 weeks doesnt it? so technically wolf chaikoff effect would support high iodine usage and would simply imply theres a 2 week period where you could have side effects? I think besides the multivitamins, pufa, vaccines, x rays, water fluoridation, environmental toxins, the iodized salt commonly used in many restaurants is also responsible for the obesity epidemic ... if you look at places like mcdonalds, the beef burgers being beef and cheese arent high in pufa, but each mcdonalds item with salt has a bunch of iodized salt added. likely same with burger king and many other places.

 

[Makrosky]

For the record, Peats views on iodine are just as strict as his views on iron and PUFA. I even checked with him regarding the distinction between IodIDE vs IodINE and as I suspected, he confirmed he has never approved of supplementing several milligram doses of iodide or iodine. Theres numerous youtube videos where you can hear, straight out of Peats mouth, that he thinks 500mcg iodine on a daily basis is harmful, and even twice the rda daily is harmful long term. He thinks Abraham and Brownstein are twisting data to sell their products. The human body works the same and similar substances usually have similar effects. Danny Roddy has also said he felt the coldest hes ever felt when he was supplementing iodine thinking it would help his thyroid. These are guys who are considered experts on metabolism and themselves have very good metabolisms. Maybe iodine could have useful effects in people with certain diseases, or excess gut bacteria etc. There are many nutrients big pharma/fda does have upper limits for which Ray agrees with, or even thinks are too high. for example their claims on upper limits for iron, iodine, pufa, and many other nutrients are far higher than Peat approves. I completely agree with doing your own research, trying things for yourself, coming to your own conclusions about nutrients or anything else whether it agrees with Peat or not... however if Peat agrees or disagrees with something it should be mentioned. Like there's threads about low vitamin A intakes, high PUFA diets which are in the "Anti Peat" section of the forums... which shows that yeah, you can and should have your own views, but it should still be clarified if something is outside of Peats thoughts. I mean Haidut said he specifically buys non iodized salt from the store. So you have three guys including Peat who have done tons of research, tons of experimenting who dont like iodine. You cant simply say, I like using large amounts of iodine/iron or pufa therefore Peat agrees



what mechanisms do you think iodine usage causes the hypothyroidism in many? Ray seems to think it happens in most people or everyone... like when I look up the wolf chaikoff effect it seems that is what occurs except I think wolf chaikoff people believe the thyroid resumes normal activity after 2 weeks doesnt it? so technically wolf chaikoff effect would support high iodine usage and would simply imply theres a 2 week period where you could have side effects? I think besides the multivitamins, pufa, vaccines, x rays, water fluoridation, environmental toxins, the iodized salt commonly used in many restaurants is also responsible for the obesity epidemic ... if you look at places like mcdonalds, the beef burgers being beef and cheese arent high in pufa, but each mcdonalds item with salt has a bunch of iodized salt added. likely same with burger king and many other places.

Dude... with all respects... I don't know where to start...

We all know what Ray thinks about iodine.

If you don't like iodine, don't take it. Your narrative of Peat being "strict" or "approves/disapproves" sounds very dogmatic. I don't give a damn if Peat approves something or not if I find it useful.

Then putting haidut or Roddy as if their opinions count the same as those of Ray...

Regarding the wolf-chaikoff effect you got it wrong. It is not 2 weeks it is 48hrs with doses above 100mg and it appears it is even IV not oral.

Regarding iodized salt... do you realize they did that to avoid people getting gout?

What are you after? Proving iodine is bad? There are a dozen threads about it in the forum. This has been discussed before.

And, as I said, if you think the amount of iodine in salt would be making people hypothyroid they would not use povidone in every hospital of the world. Do the numbers yourself.

I think Jam was right, you seem like a troll.

 

[Dr. B]

Dude... with all respects... I don't know where to start...

We all know what Ray thinks about iodine.

If you don't like iodine, don't take it. Your narrative of Peat being "strict" or "approves/disapproves" sounds very dogmatic. I don't give a damn if Peat approves something or not if I find it useful.

Then putting haidut or Roddy as if their opinions count the same as those of Ray...

Regarding the wolf-chaikoff effect you got it wrong. It is not 2 weeks it is 48hrs with doses above 100mg and it appears it is even IV not oral.

Regarding iodized salt... do you realize they did that to avoid people getting gout?

What are you after? Proving iodine is bad? There are a dozen threads about it in the forum. This has been discussed before.

And, as I said, if you think the amount of iodine in salt would be making people hypothyroid they would not use povidone in every hospital of the world. Do the numbers yourself.

I think Jam was right, you seem like a troll.

Thats false, I discussed with Jam several times and he said Ray only had an issue with iodine, not with iodide. He implied several times that Ray believes high doses of iodide are helpful/have no side effects! I did email Ray to clarify on that and he said it doesnt matter whether its iodide or iodine he still doesnt recommend supplementing it.
By all means, you can continue to supplement, experiment with iodine... I dont have an issue with that at all. Im saying it is misleading to say that its Peat approved... like there are certain scenarios Peat has approved of even iron (excessive blood loss) and PUFA (organ transplant). im sure theres some unique conditions where Peat may believe high iodine usage is worth the risks/side effects.

That's the official explanation for iodized salt, but it is similar to the explanations given for fluoridated water, vaccines, fortified vitamins in milk, fortified vitamins in breads... and many other things. so there is a trend of something starting because of a supposed health benefit and maybe there was a need/benefit at the time, but all these things have risks and of course the conspiracy theorists believe these were added intentionally to harm our health.

I havent looked into povidone, is that a special povidone iodine solution they use, or is it just povidone by itself that contains lots of iodine? I know iodine has been used as a disinfectant, but the thing is that is used topically on wounds, not orally, moreover it is just a one time thing. a one time instance likely wont have significant effects. When I took 3-4mg, once a week, after the first week I was at the same weight... after the second week it was a few pounds heavier, then the third/fourth/5th and 6th weeks there was significant gain in weight (all fat/water gain), and a lot of hair thinning on the scalp, and even testicle shrinkage and some nipple tenderness. end result was 21 pounds heavier in just 6 weeks! Ive looked on youtube and theres many people with similar experiences. important to note, as Ray has said, people selling iodine supplements have an incentive to market and exaggerate/lie about their claims... on the other hand common folk have nothing to gain from being against supplementing one specific nutrient in high doses

for surgeries it obviously outweighs the risks of thyroid damage. its also just a one time incident, not a repeated oral intake. moreover keep in mind mainstream medicine/fda has upper limit of iodine set to 1000mcg as the daily safe upper limit so they consider that to be the maximum amount you can take daily and not overdose. I cant say really how much iodine would be absorbed in the body, especially by the thyroid, from the surgeries which involve topical application of iodine