I wrote an article on saturated fat and sugar...

Jon2547

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You made some profound points in that article. That is one I'll save to PDF.
 

Perry Staltic

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In mainstream health today, saturated fat and sugar are two things that are thought to be dangerous in ANY amounts. Robert Lustig, probably one of the loudest and most well-known voices in the war against sugar, constantly refers to it as a "poison".

What we're talking about—saturated fat and sugar—are two things that the mainstream health world has labeled TOXIC.


Inherently toxic... in and of themselves.

I see the same arguments being made by the anti-pufa crowd as by the anti-sugar/anti-saturated fat crowd, ie, pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount. I don't think either extreme is correct. I can live entirely without sugar, and maybe people can live entirely without pufa (don't know), but both are not unhealthy in non-excessive amounts, IMO. Anything is toxic and unhealthy in excess. What constitutes excessive is entirely dependent on a number of factors peculiar to each individual (eg, genetics, past diet, current health, etc) and has to be individually determined by listening to what the body is saying.
 
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I tried to take a unique perspective on the two topics since we've learned so much about it here on the forum already. Hope you guys like it. It can be found here... Baby and Grandma Know Best — Ryan Heeney

Critiques or comments always welcomed!
I tried to take a unique perspective on the two topics since we've learned so much about it here on the forum already. Hope you guys like it. It can be found here... Baby and Grandma Know Best — Ryan Heeney

Critiques or comments always welcomed!
You really did your homework putting that all together! I sent it to my girlfriend who just can't seem to grasp my Ray Peat diet. Thanks for sharing! I am gonna keep that one too ?
 

Sefton10

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I see the same arguments being made by the anti-pufa crowd as by the anti-sugar/anti-saturated fat crowd, ie, pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount. I don't think either extreme is correct. I can live entirely without sugar, and maybe people can live entirely without pufa (don't know), but both are not unhealthy in non-excessive amounts, IMO. Anything is toxic and unhealthy in excess. What constitutes excessive is entirely dependent on a number of factors peculiar to each individual (eg, genetics, past diet, current health, etc) and has to be individually determined by listening to what the body is saying.
Agree. I stopped worrying about PUFA from foods like eggs, milk and shellfish. It just makes the rest of the diet too restrictive trying to get under the magical 4g of PUFA per day and the other benefits of those foods (for me) outweigh any costs of the PUFAs they contain. Individual balance is key, with everyone’s sweet spot for most foods and nutrients likely quite different.
 
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RyanHeeney

RyanHeeney

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You really did your homework putting that all together! I sent it to my girlfriend who just can't seem to grasp my Ray Peat diet. Thanks for sharing! I am gonna keep that one too ?
Awesome! Thank you! I'm hoping that letting people look at it from a different perspective will shake them out of these nonsense beliefs!
 
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Awesome! Thank you! I'm hoping that letting people look at it from a different perspective will shake them out of these nonsense beliefs!
Exactly! When margarine was popular, and touted as being better than butter, I just could not wrap my head around how anybody could believe that! I kept saying how is man-made better than "God made"? I stayed in my lane eating my sticks of butter, all the while getting stern warnings of my future peril from the margarine eaters, and you know what? They all look their age now or worse with all kinds of issues. Not just from margarine, but from the whole nasty lot of it, with Heart Beat mayonnaise, Egg Beaters (no yolks), artificial sweeteners and such. So I love your article proving "God-made" isn't wrong. Again well done!
 
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RyanHeeney

RyanHeeney

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Exactly! When margarine was popular, and touted as being better than butter, I just could not wrap my head around how anybody could believe that! I kept saying how is man-made better than "God made"? I stayed in my lane eating my sticks of butter, all the while getting stern warnings of my future peril from the margarine eaters, and you know what? They all look their age now or worse with all kinds of issues. Not just from margarine, but from the whole nasty lot of it, with Heart Beat mayonnaise, Egg Beaters (no yolks), artificial sweeteners and such. So I love your article proving "God-made" isn't wrong. Again well done!
Haha yep, I wouldn't think nature would have made that big of a mistake. And ugh margarine... thank God I never fell for it. Actually I might have for a brief time now that I think of it ? ***t oh well. But yeah, trends and fads will come and go, and from here on out I'll just be sticking to what makes sense to me.
 
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Haha yep, I wouldn't think nature would have made that big of a mistake. And ugh margarine... thank God I never fell for it. Actually I might have for a brief time now that I think of it ? ***t oh well. But yeah, trends and fads will come and go, and from here on out I'll just be sticking to what makes sense to me.
That made me laugh!
 

gaze

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I see the same arguments being made by the anti-pufa crowd as by the anti-sugar/anti-saturated fat crowd, ie, pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount. I don't think either extreme is correct. I can live entirely without sugar, and maybe people can live entirely without pufa (don't know), but both are not unhealthy in non-excessive amounts, IMO. Anything is toxic and unhealthy in excess. What constitutes excessive is entirely dependent on a number of factors peculiar to each individual (eg, genetics, past diet, current health, etc) and has to be individually determined by listening to what the body is saying.
i thought for a long time which pufa foods i'm cutting out blindly by listening to peat, and really the only foods that i enjoy eating that have pufas is peanut butter and bacon. besides these two, i can't think of another high pufa food that i enjoy eating. i don't like salmon, tuna, seeds, all nuts besides peanut butter, all vegetable oils have no real taste, and so every food made with vegetable oils taste better with buttter. so i don't see cutting pufas as extreme really, considering bacon and peanut butter are the only high pufa foods that taste good (to me). peat reccomends foods like eggs, olive oil, shellfish, in normal amounts, so i don't include those
 
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i thought for a long time which pufa foods i'm cutting out blindly by listening to peat, and really the only foods that i enjoy eating that have pufas is peanut butter and bacon. besides these two, i can't think of another high pufa food that i enjoy eating. i don't like salmon, tuna, seeds, all nuts besides peanut butter, all vegetable oils have no real taste, and so every food made with vegetable oils taste better with buttter. so i don't see cutting pufas as extreme really, considering bacon and peanut butter are the only high pufa foods that taste good (to me). peat reccomends foods like eggs, olive oil, shellfish, in normal amounts, so i don't include those
Maybe it isn't the PUFA's in peanutbutter that you are liking, but rather all that "Peaty" sugar and salt, because peanuts are nowhere as good as peanut butter! As for the bacon, well it's bacon, who can argue that one ?
 

Perry Staltic

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i thought for a long time which pufa foods i'm cutting out blindly by listening to peat, and really the only foods that i enjoy eating that have pufas is peanut butter and bacon. besides these two, i can't think of another high pufa food that i enjoy eating. i don't like salmon, tuna, seeds, all nuts besides peanut butter, all vegetable oils have no real taste, and so every food made with vegetable oils taste better with buttter. so i don't see cutting pufas as extreme really, considering bacon and peanut butter are the only high pufa foods that taste good (to me). peat reccomends foods like eggs, olive oil, shellfish, in normal amounts, so i don't include those

I didn't say cutting pufa is extreme. I said the notion that pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount is extreme.
 

gaze

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I didn't say cutting pufa is extreme. I said the notion that pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount is extreme.
in what situation does a pufa play a positive role in the body? considering all the downsides, there has to be certain upsides your thinking of that would contradict the idea that it's toxic at any amount. i agree a food with pufa can have a net positive effect, because of calories, nutrition, etc, but would that food be better off if it didn't have any pufa? probably. and also even ray admits there are pufas that are good, like omega 9, CLAs, etc. i think people should be more specific when they talk about toxic pufa as DHA, EPA, and linoleic acid. of these 3 DHA is the only one that I would consider slightly beneficial in small amounts, so i do disagree with ray on that
 

Perry Staltic

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in what situation does a pufa play a positive role in the body? considering all the downsides, there has to be certain upsides your thinking of that would contradict the idea that it's toxic at any amount. i agree a food with pufa can have a net positive effect, because of calories, nutrition, etc, but would that food be better off if it didn't have any pufa? probably. and also even ray admits there are pufas that are good, like omega 9, CLAs, etc. i think people should be more specific when they talk about toxic pufa as DHA, EPA, and linoleic acid. of these 3 DHA is the only one that I would consider slightly beneficial in small amounts, so i do disagree with ray on that

I don't think it's all downside. Somebody just posted a thread with a Masterjohn video in which he explains that all of the different nutrients in food work in tandem to keep pufa from being toxic. The dose is the poison so it seems wise to minimize pufa so as to increase one's chances of not overburdening the system. I've cut way back on oils, but couldn't care less about other things with pufa because my body likes those foods and tells me it can handle them. Peanut butter's a good example. I love the stuff and it's full of good nutritious stuff, but I pour off the oil that rises to the top before I eat it. I didn't use to do that, but it seems like a prudent, expeditious choice now.
 
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RyanHeeney

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I see the same arguments being made by the anti-pufa crowd as by the anti-sugar/anti-saturated fat crowd, ie, pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount. I don't think either extreme is correct. I can live entirely without sugar, and maybe people can live entirely without pufa (don't know), but both are not unhealthy in non-excessive amounts, IMO. Anything is toxic and unhealthy in excess. What constitutes excessive is entirely dependent on a number of factors peculiar to each individual (eg, genetics, past diet, current health, etc) and has to be individually determined by listening to what the body is saying.
I see the same arguments being made by the anti-pufa crowd as by the anti-sugar/anti-saturated fat crowd, ie, pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount. I don't think either extreme is correct. I can live entirely without sugar, and maybe people can live entirely without pufa (don't know), but both are not unhealthy in non-excessive amounts, IMO. Anything is toxic and unhealthy in excess. What constitutes excessive is entirely dependent on a number of factors peculiar to each individual (eg, genetics, past diet, current health, etc) and has to be individually determined by listening to what the body is saying.
I see the same arguments being made by the anti-pufa crowd as by the anti-sugar/anti-saturated fat crowd, ie, pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount. I don't think either extreme is correct. I can live entirely without sugar, and maybe people can live entirely without pufa (don't know), but both are not unhealthy in non-excessive amounts, IMO. Anything is toxic and unhealthy in excess. What constitutes excessive is entirely dependent on a number of factors peculiar to each individual (eg, genetics, past diet, current health, etc) and has to be individually determined by listening to what the body is saying.
I see the same arguments being made by the anti-pufa crowd as by the anti-sugar/anti-saturated fat crowd, ie, pufa is toxic and dangerous in any amount. I don't think either extreme is correct. I can live entirely without sugar, and maybe people can live entirely without pufa (don't know), but both are not unhealthy in non-excessive amounts, IMO. Anything is toxic and unhealthy in excess. What constitutes excessive is entirely dependent on a number of factors peculiar to each individual (eg, genetics, past diet, current health, etc) and has to be individually determined by listening to what the body is saying.
I see your point, but is it safe to say that one side might be correct and the other is not? From the info I’ve gathered, evidence I’ve seen, personal experience... this is the basket I’ll be putting my eggs in, so to speak. There is a truth and everything in moderation doesn’t mean much to me... poison ivy or arsenic in moderation isn’t a good idea, for example. I know that’s extreme but I’m just trying to make a point.

I would say do what makes you feel best. We’re all going to come to our own conclusions. When I put all the pieces together from what I’ve learned (like the fact that PUFA makes up only 10% of the fat of breast milk from a mother who is probably already eating a high pufa diet, or the fact that pufa rich foods are known to ease animals into hibernation) I base conclusions off of things like that. I believe there is in fact a truth and everything is not all relevant.
 
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