Greatings from Sweden!

[Thomas]

Thank you narouz for the post. I try to answer some of your questions. How I tested it was to allow myself some potatos in one of my bone brews. SCD is heavy on bone/chicken brew. Then I had a glass of coke, after I believe 1.5 years without. ;-)
Then I drank milk in my coffee. I was without milk from the 20.12. 2012. I had a bar of cocolate after 1.5. years without. I was eating lots of cheese. (Bree) I did that for two days now. I had lots of orange juice and carrot salat ala Peat. I believe it is possible to combine. Fruit is allowed on SCD, only we have zero Grains and no potatos, no rice. Honey is allowed but no sugar.
Gelantin is a big plus in SCD and lots of bone/chicken brews. Very little fibre. Eggs are allowed but an ELISA test I paid for shows high allergic reactions to eggs and all type of grains.

yours
Thomas

 

[j.]

Being very allergic is a symptom of hypothyroidism. Also, the Peat diet doesn't always work immediately. If you stop eating PUFAs today, PUFAs will still be released from your fat stores during the next four years. It takes 4 years to eliminate the PUFA from the body once one stops eating it. I saw benefits only after 3 months of avoiding PUFAs.

 

[charlie]

Being very allergic is a symptom of hypothyroidism.

:1

 

[Thomas]

Being very allergic is a symptom of hypothyroidism. Also, the Peat diet doesn't always work immediately. If you stop eating PUFAs today, PUFAs will still be released from your fat stores during the next four years. It takes 4 years to eliminate the PUFA from the body once one stops eating it. I saw benefits only after 3 months of avoiding PUFAs.

I am only using butter, olive oil and coconut oil. Am I fine with that cleaning out PUFA?

yours
T

 

[j.]

I am only using butter, olive oil and coconut oil. Am I fine with that cleaning out PUFA?

I think so, if you also avoid nuts, margarine, mayo, chicken, pork, fish, and ensure that the chocolates and ice creams you eat don't have vegetable oils.

 

[charlie]

I would go easy on the olive oil.

 

[Jenn]

My son has an issue with panic attacks. For him, it is a sugar/potassium/CO2 issue....mostly CO2.
Butter can be an irritant to the intestines, sometimes just coconut oil is better in the short term.

 

[Thomas]

My son has an issue with panic attacks. For him, it is a sugar/potassium/CO2 issue....mostly CO2.
Butter can be an irritant to the intestines, sometimes just coconut oil is better in the short term.

Hi Jenn,
in which way do you handle the problem? Is it a question of getting more or less och sugar/potassium/CO2! Lets say he is missing out on C02, what are you doing then. Breathing into a bag? Or a food source? Is bicarbonate and OJ helping him?
For me I am sure it is a second reaction. First a realease of endotoxins as a following of bacteria having a ball with some kind of food. There is too a possibility of molecules getting through the intestinal barrier and the following of a immunesystem reaction. One or the other I noticed the situation activates some hormons, I believe learning from R.P, it must be - Serotonin. I get a strange poisiones feeling and they sympathetic nervous system freaks out. Stress reactions!

What I am searching for is a system of help. How to calm down the sympathetic nervous system. I learned meditation and have great, in fact very much help from it. Then I need something to get rid myself of that serotonin attack. I dont know anything yet but hope to get some info from you guys. I believe you know a lot more than me. Please give me some ideas regarding serotonin clean up. Then I have to kill the bugs in my system and heal the leaky gut. I am doing it by starving them and eating bone brew to heal my guts. The is a trouble starving them. While doing it I am too starving myself/ my cells. I try to get around the problem by eating protein/fat/ and honey. Still in case of SIBO the bacteria is sitting up in the small intestines and is eating too from the fast digested food.

I believe I dont have much problems with the bacteria in the large intestines. They dont get much food as I dont eat fibre.

Any pointers, help and teaching are very welcome as I love to learn!!!!

PS. What is really wirred is that I am not always feeling crap. I write down everything I eat and when and try to find a pattern. But there is no logic in it. I feel good for some hours and then wham, the sympthoms hit me. Sometime when I feel piss. I stop eating and fast. I start feeling good. Another day fasting is activating the poisions feeling and sympthoms are coming from fasting. Its like living with a mad parent who is friendly one hour and than beating you up another time just when you thought you did everything right and have a great time together. Very strange these bodies of ours!



yours
Thomas

 

[Mittir]

Thank you narouz for the post. I try to answer some of your questions. How I tested it was to allow myself some potatos in one of my bone brews. SCD is heavy on bone/chicken brew. Then I had a glass of coke, after I believe 1.5 years without. ;-)
Then I drank milk in my coffee. I was without milk from the 20.12. 2012. I had a bar of cocolate after 1.5. years without. I was eating lots of cheese. (Bree) I did that for two days now. I had lots of orange juice and carrot salat ala Peat. I believe it is possible to combine. Fruit is allowed on SCD, only we have zero Grains and no potatos, no rice. Honey is allowed but no sugar.
Gelantin is a big plus in SCD and lots of bone/chicken brews. Very little fibre. Eggs are allowed but an ELISA test I paid for shows high allergic reactions to eggs and all type of grains.

yours
Thomas

Do you eat home made 24 hour yogurt in SCD diet? You can drain lactic acid with cheese cloth and it will be a greek style yogurt.
Totally acceptable in Ray Peat diet, a good source of protein. Do you know how much carbohydrate and protein you are getting daily? RP suggests at least 80 grams of good quality protein, mostly from milk, cheese and gelatin. He also suggests moderate to high carbohydrate ( 175 grams +) in the form of Monosaccharides and disaccharides( sucrose and lactose).
He advise against using starch and soluble fiber, since these feeds bacteria. It seems like you have problem digesting sucrose and lactose. In that case you can use honey and other Monosaccharides as source of carbohydrate. I think you can make sugar syrup, that is mostly Monosaccharides, breakdown of sucrose into glucose and fructose. There are recipes online how to make sugar syrup. People with very sensitive stomach has problem digesting lactose in milk and some do have problem digesting sucrose. Hypothyroid people do have problem digesting lactose. Chocolate can be very irritating to intestine and can cause hypoglycemia . I think for now stick to Monosaccharides until your intestine is healed. Honey can be allergenic too for some people.

Brie cheese can be high in histamine, which can cause lots of allergic and digestion problems. it is better to make your own strained yogurt as protein and calcium source. Gelatin also can feed bacteria if it is not digested properly. You have to observe that if you feel better or worse after eating bone broth.
You can use raw carrot salad with some vinegar( half a tsp or 1 tsp) and coconut oil added to clean up your endotoxins. I find it very very helpful. You also can eat one raw carrot if you can not make salad. Cooked bamboo shoot also has the same ability to lower endotoxins. These are the two source of fibers that kill gut bacteria instead of feeding them. I would suggest you to start with small amount of carrot or bamboo shoot. It is not more than one carrot daily, as beta carotene in carrot is not good for you.
You need a strong liver to help you get rid of excess estrogen that results from endotoxins.

 

[Thomas]

Thank you narouz for the post. I try to answer some of your questions. How I tested it was to allow myself some potatos in one of my bone brews. SCD is heavy on bone/chicken brew. Then I had a glass of coke, after I believe 1.5 years without. ;-)
Then I drank milk in my coffee. I was without milk from the 20.12. 2012. I had a bar of cocolate after 1.5. years without. I was eating lots of cheese. (Bree) I did that for two days now. I had lots of orange juice and carrot salat ala Peat. I believe it is possible to combine. Fruit is allowed on SCD, only we have zero Grains and no potatos, no rice. Honey is allowed but no sugar.
Gelantin is a big plus in SCD and lots of bone/chicken brews. Very little fibre. Eggs are allowed but an ELISA test I paid for shows high allergic reactions to eggs and all type of grains.

yours
Thomas

Do you eat home made 24 hour yogurt in SCD diet? You can drain lactic acid with cheese cloth and it will be a greek style yogurt.
Totally acceptable in Ray Peat diet, a good source of protein. Do you know how much carbohydrate and protein you are getting daily? RP suggests at least 80 grams of good quality protein, mostly from milk, cheese and gelatin. He also suggests moderate to high carbohydrate ( 175 grams +) in the form of Monosaccharides and disaccharides( sucrose and lactose).
He advise against using starch and soluble fiber, since these feeds bacteria. It seems like you have problem digesting sucrose and lactose. In that case you can use honey and other Monosaccharides as source of carbohydrate. I think you can make sugar syrup, that is mostly Monosaccharides, breakdown of sucrose into glucose and fructose. There are recipes online how to make sugar syrup. People with very sensitive stomach has problem digesting lactose in milk and some do have problem digesting sucrose. Hypothyroid people do have problem digesting lactose. Chocolate can be very irritating to intestine and can cause hypoglycemia . I think for now stick to Monosaccharides until your intestine is healed. Honey can be allergenic too for some people.

Brie cheese can be high in histamine, which can cause lots of allergic and digestion problems. it is better to make your own strained yogurt as protein and calcium source. Gelatin also can feed bacteria if it is not digested properly. You have to observe that if you feel better or worse after eating bone broth.
You can use raw carrot salad with some vinegar( half a tsp or 1 tsp) and coconut oil added to clean up your endotoxins. I find it very very helpful. You also can eat one raw carrot if you can not make salad. Cooked bamboo shoot also has the same ability to lower endotoxins. These are the two source of fibers that kill gut bacteria instead of feeding them. I would suggest you to start with small amount of carrot or bamboo shoot. It is not more than one carrot daily, as beta carotene in carrot is not good for you.
You need a strong liver to help you get rid of excess estrogen that results from endotoxins.

Thank you Mittir!!!! That was very helpful! One question, if I make my own sugar sirupm, will that turn a disaccaride into a monosaccaride? What I learned from SCD is that I have to eat monosaccaride as they go quickly into the cells via the small intestines. I have not started to make my own yogurt. I reacted badly to pro-biotics. But I will try it now as you suggested.

yours
Thomas

 

[Mittir]

Here is a link to sugar syrup. There are several ways to make it and one of them is heating a water sugar solution. I have seen people using lemon juice in that syrup to accelerate the conversion. Always eat some protein and fat with carbohydrate to keep your blood sugar steady.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_sugar_syrup

Here are few videos on how to make sugar syrup and cheese free of lactose.
You can use homemade simple cheese instead of strained yogurt too.
People on this site mostly follow Ray Peat style dieting .

http://www.workoutmaster.com/?p=1779

http://www.workoutmaster.com/?p=1785

Here you can listen to tons of radio interview of Ray Peat

http://eastwesthealing.com/podcasts/ray-peat/

 

[Thomas]

Here is a link to sugar syrup. There are several ways to make it and one of them is heating a water sugar solution. I have seen people using lemon juice in that syrup to accelerate the conversion. Always eat some protein and fat with carbohydrate to keep your blood sugar steady.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_sugar_syrup

Here are few videos on how to make sugar syrup and cheese free of lactose.
You can use homemade simple cheese instead of strained yogurt too.
People on this site mostly follow Ray Peat style dieting .

http://www.workoutmaster.com/?p=1779

http://www.workoutmaster.com/?p=1785

Here you can listen to tons of radio interview of Ray Peat



http://eastwesthealing.com/podcasts/ray-peat/

Thank you a lot for the links mate! What can I eat as carbs in thge Ray Peat way? Is it only the sugar or is he eating too some veggies? Which fruit is he eating?

cheers
thomas

 

[jyb]

Thank you a lot for the links mate! What can I eat as carbs in thge Ray Peat way? Is it only the sugar or is he eating too some veggies? Which fruit is he eating?

- Orange juice, strained so no fiber. Concentrated can work too, but in any case need to watch out for added chemicals like fluoride.
- White sugar, coca cola... is useful in emergencies but in small quantities because don't have as much nutrients as orange juice.
- If needed, white potato but very well cooked to reduce the downside of it being a starch. If no choice, then cooked rice but I don't think wheat should ever be considered.

To give you an example, I get most of my carb from orange juice (several liters per day). That's in addition to all the milk which contains sugar - lactose. Since its a lot of liquid, its important to a get lot of sodium. I often have white sugar in my coffee, and coca cola (made with sugar, not high fructose corn syrup) when I run out of orange juice.

No veggies except for a specific things like a one a day grated raw carrot between two meals, rinsed in water to eliminate the beta-carotene (orange color).

 

[Jenn]

Club soda with OJ works well for my son.

 

[Mittir]

For carbohydrate sweet ripe fruits are ideal. But it depends on how your intestine react to it.
You have to avoid the fiber in fruits, thus strained fruit juices.
Acid in some fruits can irritate stomach, you can add pinch of baking soda to strained orange juice or grape juice
to neutralize the acid. Here is a list of fruits approved by Ray peat. You can also check with fruit juices approved in SCD diet.
I think they are ok with certain fruit juices.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=588&hilit=safe+fruit

 

[Thomas]

Thank you guys for all the starting help!!!!
cheers
Thomas

 

[Rayser]

I noticed that you mention "virgin coconut oil" - Ray Peat recommends the refined kind because virgin oil is allergenic. The same goes for honey. There are parts of bees in there and some toxins from the plants.

What you describe as panic attack sound very familiar. Only I know it as hypoglycaemia. I believe that every diet without sugar is a recipe for disease. When I was were you seem to be right now I started using salt therapeutically and sugar. Salt one to three table spoons a day to lower Parathyroid Hormone and help my thyroid function recover and sugar to normalize the metabolism and repair cells.

Signs and symptoms (from Wikipedia)

Hypoglycemic symptoms and manifestations can be divided into those produced by the counterregulatory hormones (epinephrine/adrenaline and glucagon) triggered by the falling glucose, and the neuroglycopenic effects produced by the reduced brain sugar.

1. Adrenergic manifestations:
Shakiness, anxiety, nervousness
Palpitations, tachycardia
Sweating, feeling of warmth (although sweat glands have muscarinic receptors, thus "adrenergic manifestations" is not entirely accurate)
Pallor, coldness, clamminess
Dilated pupils (mydriasis)
Feeling of numbness "pins and needles" (paresthesia)

2. Glucagon manifestations:
Hunger, borborygmus
Nausea, vomiting, abdominal discomfort
Headache

3. Neuroglycopenic manifestations
Abnormal mentation, impaired judgment
Nonspecific dysphoria, moodiness, depression, crying, exaggerated concerns
Negativism, irritability, belligerence, combativeness, rage
Personality change, emotional lability
Fatigue, weakness, apathy, lethargy, daydreaming, sleep
Confusion, amnesia, lightheadedness or dizziness, delirium
Staring, "glassy" look, blurred vision, double vision
Flashes of light in the field of vision
Automatic behavior, also known as automatism
Difficulty speaking, slurred speech
Ataxia, incoordination, sometimes mistaken for "drunkenness"
Focal or general motor deficit, paralysis, hemiparesis
Paresthesia, headache
Stupor, coma, abnormal breathing
Generalized or focal seizures

Not all of the above manifestations occur in every case of hypoglycemia. There is no consistent order to the appearance of the symptoms, if symptoms even occur. Specific manifestations may also vary by age, by severity of the hypoglycemia and the speed of the decline. In young children, vomiting can sometimes accompany morning hypoglycemia with ketosis. In older children and adults, moderately severe hypoglycemia can resemble mania, mental illness, drug intoxication, or drunkenness. In the elderly, hypoglycemia can produce focal stroke-like effects or a hard-to-define malaise. The symptoms of a single person may be similar from episode to episode, but are not necessarily so and may be influenced by the speed at which glucose levels are dropping, as well as previous incidents.

 

[Thomas]

Thank you Rayser for the pointer about the virgin coconut oil, I thought virgin oils are better but I will test the others now! I will look into this. I noticed that I even had reactions when not eating anything. Now I am used to eat very little and I am not even hungry. But I have reactions anyhow. So I will try, after I read your post, to eat several times a day smaller meals.

How are you feeling, did your own regime with salt and sugar helped you balancing your system!

yours
Thomas

 

[Rayser]

Hello, Thomas ... Actually, the "regime" was not mine but Ray Peat's. He suggested I use large amounts of sugar. Since it was winter I couldn't get any tropical fruit here in Germany. So I used white sugar. I used it in everything: coffee, tee, milk, soup (some) and I had lots of hot chocolate at that time. I had had three meals a day before and split that into 7 small meals containing a piece of cheese and fresh pressed orange juice or some grapes and milk or some bone broth, a little liver with potatoes.
I started to feel energized after the third day if I remember correctly.
I noticed you said you had been on antibiotics before the night-time experience? That's how it started for me, too. The antibiotics lower your blood sugar even more. I had a pill before going to bed and when I got up in the morning, a few minutes after breakfast, everything went black, I had a sensation as if my blood was burning but cold, everything tingled and I couldn't feel my legs anymore (standing up). I had to sit down and it was a very conscious decision to go on breathing. Inside I was warm and nearly hot, outside very cold. But I still felt like I might be sweating. Some people called an ambulance and they gave me glucose. The symptoms disappeared within minutes.
Later I remembered that I had skipped dinner before that morning.
Ray Peat once told me he had had the same experience after eating some eggs and not drinking orange juice. So maybe you don't want to eat only eggs for a while but include one when you eat something else and make sure you drink lots of orange juice.
I don't have that anymore to answer your question. I don't have any health issues.

 

[Thomas]

Hello, Thomas ... Actually, the "regime" was not mine but Ray Peat's. He suggested I use large amounts of sugar. Since it was winter I couldn't get any tropical fruit here in Germany. So I used white sugar. I used it in everything: coffee, tee, milk, soup (some) and I had lots of hot chocolate at that time. I had had three meals a day before and split that into 7 small meals containing a piece of cheese and fresh pressed orange juice or some grapes and milk or some bone broth, a little liver with potatoes.
I started to feel energized after the third day if I remember correctly.
I noticed you said you had been on antibiotics before the night-time experience? That's how it started for me, too. The antibiotics lower your blood sugar even more. I had a pill before going to bed and when I got up in the morning, a few minutes after breakfast, everything went black, I had a sensation as if my blood was burning but cold, everything tingled and I couldn't feel my legs anymore (standing up). I had to sit down and it was a very conscious decision to go on breathing. Inside I was warm and nearly hot, outside very cold. But I still felt like I might be sweating. Some people called an ambulance and they gave me glucose. The symptoms disappeared within minutes.
Later I remembered that I had skipped dinner before that morning.
Ray Peat once told me he had had the same experience after eating some eggs and not drinking orange juice. So maybe you don't want to eat only eggs for a while but include one when you eat something else and make sure you drink lots of orange juice.
I don't have that anymore to answer your question. I don't have any health issues.

Thanks Rayser!
Wow, sounds like my story. I believe I must have experienced the same thing. I went on a nearly zero carb/sugar diet. But I was eating a lot of meat/fat. My body surely didnt get enought sugar and potasium. The ammonium released on a weak liver I believe gave me the bad experience.

thank you for all the ideas and pointers!
yours
Thomas