I wrote an article on saturated fat and sugar...

[Perry Staltic]

So it’s not possible that one side MIGHT be correct and the other side isn’t? So is everything is just relative and there is no such thing as truth?

You asked if it was safe, not if it was possible.

 

[RyanHeeney]

-

 

[RyanHeeney]

You asked if it was safe, not if it was possible.

Well I believe there to be a definite truth when it comes to nutrition and the best way to figure out that truth is to hash it on amongst each other.

The whole “one thing works for some, while another thing works for others” has never really appealed to me. Does the optimal diet of a lion depend on who exactly that lion is? I would say for 99.9% of cases the optimal diet for all lions is the same. Only the requirements for things like the amounts of calories, amounts of macronutrients, etc. can differ. But how each “substance” affects a specific species will be very similar.

Biologically people are more similar than they are different. That’s why penicillin has saved something like 80 million lives from bacterial diseases. It works the same in probably 99.9% of people that use it. If we were all so different, you probably would have never heard the word penicillin before.

 

[GreenTrails]

I tried to take a unique perspective on the two topics since we've learned so much about it here on the forum already. Hope you guys like it. It can be found here... Baby and Grandma Know Best — Ryan Heeney

Critiques or comments always welcomed!

This was an excellent article. Thank you, RyanHeeney!

 

[RyanHeeney]

This was an excellent article. Thank you, RyanHeeney!

Thank you very much for reading! I appreciate it.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Well I believe there to be a definite truth when it comes to nutrition and the best way to figure out that truth is to hash it on amongst each other.

The whole “one thing works for some, while another thing works for others” has never really appealed to me. Does the optimal diet of a lion depend on who exactly that lion is? I would say for 99.9% of cases the optimal diet for all lions is the same. Only the requirements for things like the amounts of calories, amounts of macronutrients, etc. can differ. But how each “substance” affects a specific species will be very similar.

Biologically people are more similar than they are different. That’s why penicillin has saved something like 80 million lives from bacterial diseases. It works the same in probably 99.9% of people that use it. If we were all so different, you probably would have never heard the word penicillin before.

I like your lion analogy. I think what has happened is we as humans have adapted somewhat to crappy food, whether it be man-made crap, aka oils and hydrogenated uck or feeding our food system cheaply, ruining our guts, joints and minds, and finally making it difficult to eat the way we always should of. I do think polyunsaturated fats are toxic, why because Ray Peat and science says so. Do I think there are redeeming qualities in things like above ground vegetables, nuts and such? Absolutely, I just choose to have my cake and "Peat" it too and get those nutrients elsewhere for the most part. Ray Peat would be proud of your article!

 

[Perry Staltic]

I do think polyunsaturated fats are toxic

Oxygen is toxic

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Oxygen is toxic

Yep

 

[mm33]

Another great article with links Ryan - thank you so much for doing these!! I really enjoy these and learn so much and of course also save all of these to my hard drive in pdf. Keep them coming amigo!

 

[RyanHeeney]

I like your lion analogy. I think what has happened is we as humans have adapted somewhat to crappy food, whether it be man-made crap, aka oils and hydrogenated uck or feeding our food system cheaply, ruining our guts, joints and minds, and finally making it difficult to eat the way we always should of. I do think polyunsaturated fats are toxic, why because Ray Peat and science says so. Do I think there are redeeming qualities in things like above ground vegetables, nuts and such? Absolutely, I just choose to have my cake and "Peat" it too and get those nutrients elsewhere for the most part. Ray Peat would be proud of your article!

Thanks for the kind words ?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Yep

Yet it's the breath of life. My point is, the body is an elaborate control system with mechanisms to prevent things that are potentially toxic from harming us. So it's not a white or black issue.

 

[RyanHeeney]

Another great article with links Ryan - thank you so much for doing these!! I really enjoy these and learn so much and of course also save all of these to my hard drive in pdf. Keep them coming amigo!

That means more than you know. I really appreciate messages like these. If they can help, it’s always my pleasure.

 

[RyanHeeney]

Oxygen is toxic

Depends on the context. Are you sure you’re not confusing the concepts of “context” and “everything is relative”.

Pufa is good for a squirrel that is about to go into hibernation (because it turns it’s metabolism down and it’s why they hoard nuts at the same time every year), but bad for a warm blooded human that originated near the warm equator.

How is an unstable oil like pufa that has to be kept in a closed, dark container in the refrigerator or it quickly goes rancid fine, but then that same pufa is good for a very warm blooded mammal which has oxygen rich blood?

Also it’s the same reason you can keep coconut oil uncovered for months in open air without it going rancid... because of its high degree of saturation (meaning oxygen and heat can’t do much of anything to it). I don’t mean to sound dismissive or anything but I don’t think there’s much of an argument here.

Pufa is full of double bonds that break down in heat and oxygen (lipid peroxidation) causing all sorts of free radicals to form.

This isn’t theory, it’s the same as a mechanic popping the hood of a car and SEEING why the car is malfunctioning. These aren’t “guesses” or theories.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Depends on the context. Are you sure you’re not confusing the concepts of “context” and “everything is relative”.

Pufa is good for a squirrel that is about to go into hibernation (because it turns it’s metabolism down and it’s why they hoard nuts at the same time every year), but bad for a warm blooded human that originated near the warm equator.

How is an unstable oil like pufa that has to be kept in a closed, dark container in the refrigerator or it quickly goes rancid fine, but then that same pufa is good for a very warm blooded mammal which has oxygen rich blood?

Also it’s the same reason you can keep coconut oil uncovered for months in open air without it going rancid... because of its high degree of saturation (meaning oxygen and heat can’t do much of anything to it). I don’t mean to sound dismissive or anything but I don’t think there’s much of an argument here.

Pufa is full of double bonds that break down in heat and oxygen (lipid peroxidation) causing all sorts of free radicals to form.

This isn’t theory, it’s the same as a mechanic popping the hood of a car and SEEING why the car is malfunctioning. These aren’t “guesses” or theories.

It is exactly what Ray Peat says, above ground vegetables are meant for animals. Humans resorted to eating it out desperation, now we have grown to like it. It doesn't make it good for us.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Depends on the context. Are you sure you’re not confusing the concepts of “context” and “everything is relative”.

Pufa is good for a squirrel that is about to go into hibernation (because it turns it’s metabolism down and it’s why they hoard nuts at the same time every year), but bad for a warm blooded human that originated near the warm equator.

How is an unstable oil like pufa that has to be kept in a closed, dark container in the refrigerator or it quickly goes rancid fine, but then that same pufa is good for a very warm blooded mammal which has oxygen rich blood?

Also it’s the same reason you can keep coconut oil uncovered for months in open air without it going rancid... because of its high degree of saturation (meaning oxygen and heat can’t do much of anything to it). I don’t mean to sound dismissive or anything but I don’t think there’s much of an argument here.

Pufa is full of double bonds that break down in heat and oxygen (lipid peroxidation) causing all sorts of free radicals to form.

This isn’t theory, it’s the same as a mechanic popping the hood of a car and SEEING why the car is malfunctioning. These aren’t “guesses” or theories.

You're ignoring innate immunity. A healthy body has mechanisms to quench reactive oxygen species and break down pufas before they damage cells.

 

[Perry Staltic]

It is exactly what Ray Peat says, above ground vegetables are meant for animals. Humans resorted to eating it out desperation, now we have grown to like it. It doesn't make it good for us.

We eat those things because they are nutritious. Just because they're not perfect doesn't make them bad, except maybe to people whose systems don't function optimally. See my post above.

 

[RyanHeeney]

You're ignoring innate immunity. A healthy body has mechanisms to quench reactive oxygen species and break down pufas before they damage cells.

Like a “stress free” body? Maybe when you’re 7 years old what you’re saying is applicable but at 35 with some life experience behind me I’ll be taking all the stress off my organism I can.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Like a “stress free” body? Maybe when you’re 7 years old what you’re saying is applicable but at 35 with some life experience behind me I’ll be taking all the stress off my organism I can.

Minimizing stress and potentially toxic substances are good and prudent things to do. Zero pufa though is IMO an unrealistic burden with questionable benefit and potentially some harm. But to each his/her own. Everyone has to figure out what works best for them.

 

[RyanHeeney]

I think Ray has said under 4 grams is generally helpful. Not too hard IMO. Plus the ratio between fats is important. But I agree, pulse and temperature is a good gauge of your metabolism (how well your cell is producing energy) as is the Achilles reflex... so if those are good and you subscribe to the idea that energy production of the cell is important then I agree, hey whatever works.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

We eat those things because they are nutritious. Just because they're not perfect doesn't make them bad, except maybe to people whose systems don't function optimally. See my post above.

Perry Staltic I don't know how old you are, but if I had known now what I didn't know then I could have saved myself a lot of trouble. Toxins are toxins. I am not quite sure if you are arguing with Ray Peat, saying that some PUFA's are good or saying that sometimes some are worth the risk? Please note there is no tone in my words, I come in peace ?