Hypothyroid symptoms worse after starting NDT?

[-Luke-]

So I started taking NDT for the first time in my life at the end of last year. Metative IV from the-natural-choice.com. One capsule has 80 mg "Bovine Thyroid Complex" which consists of bovine thyroid gland and ribonucleotides. I read a post on this forum that this is - if I remember correctly - about 3/4 thyroid gland. For whatever reason I can't find that post anymore.

I started with half a capsule, a few days ago I increased the dose to a full capsule. In the first week or so I didn't notice anything. Morning temperature was 36.1 or 36.2 °C before taking the supplement. I am pretty lazy with measuring in the morning because I'm too sleepy. But in the last two days morning temperature was 35.9 °C. Resting pulse rate is around 65, both before and after starting the supplement. Temperature rises to 36.6 °C around noon, also both before and after starting. These last few days I felt even colder as normal, hands even colder than before. Symptoms are not much worse, but significantly. I also feel more stressed and less refreshed after waking up, even though sleep duration has increased.

Any idea what the problem might be?

It wouldn't be the first supplement that has the exact opposite effect for me compared to what it does for other people and why I actually take it...

 

[Peatful]

I don’t know anything about this product nor your dietary history-
But i do know that taking NDT increases your need for more nutrition.
If you’re underfed it will increase a stressed state.

 

[-Luke-]

I don’t know anything about this product nor your dietary history-
But i do know that taking NDT increases your need for more nutrition.
If you’re underfed it will increase a stressed state.

Thanks for your reply! I was aware that increases the need for certain nutrients, ate a bit more and used more magnesium oil.

My diet right now is pretty simple, not a huge variety of foods:
- Cheese
- Eggs
- Potatoes
- Grape juice
- Apples
- Dried dates
- a bit gelatin
- Shrimps about once a week or once every two weeks

I guess I eat about 3000 calories. Maybe some nutrient like selenium is missing.

 

[Jennifer]

So I started taking NDT for the first time in my life at the end of last year. Metative IV from the-natural-choice.com. One capsule has 80 mg "Bovine Thyroid Complex" which consists of bovine thyroid gland and ribonucleotides. I read a post on this forum that this is - if I remember correctly - about 3/4 thyroid gland. For whatever reason I can't find that post anymore.

I started with half a capsule, a few days ago I increased the dose to a full capsule. In the first week or so I didn't notice anything. Morning temperature was 36.1 or 36.2 °C before taking the supplement. I am pretty lazy with measuring in the morning because I'm too sleepy. But in the last two days morning temperature was 35.9 °C. Resting pulse rate is around 65, both before and after starting the supplement. Temperature rises to 36.6 °C around noon, also both before and after starting. These last few days I felt even colder as normal, hands even colder than before. Symptoms are not much worse, but significantly. I also feel more stressed and less refreshed after waking up, even though sleep duration has increased.

Any idea what the problem might be?

It wouldn't be the first supplement that has the exact opposite effect for me compared to what it does for other people and why I actually take it...

Could the NDT have lowered stress hormones you might have previously been running on and that were possibly keeping your temp up?

 

[Bluebell]

Hi Luke, I would have said you were running on adrenalin/stress hormones before if you were hypothyroid, and taking the thyroid is bringing the stress hormones down but there hasn't been enough time for your body to start making enough T3 from the T4 and generally adapt to the thyroid hormones. Like a lag before you start getting the effects. But usually people feel more relaxed and even tired from the thyroid if this kind of situation is happening ...

Only other thing I could think of is checking you are getting enough selenium which helps conversion to T3.

This is assuming you are showing hypothyroidism on blood tests, if not, maybe you don't need NDT.

 

[Bluebell]

The other thing is, I've heard some people say Metative IV does not work that well especially since they added ribonucleotides. I think it's OK for some people though.

 

[Momma]

Thanks for your reply! I was aware that increases the need for certain nutrients, ate a bit more and used more magnesium oil.

My diet right now is pretty simple, not a huge variety of foods:
- Cheese
- Eggs
- Potatoes
- Grape juice
- Apples
- Dried dates
- a bit gelatin
- Shrimps about once a week or once every two weeks

I guess I eat about 3000 calories. Maybe some nutrient like selenium is missing.

To experiment -
Add sugar. Add ice cream. Add cheesecake.
Do that for three days
Then see if you tolerate it better on the fourth day
Let me know if you need clarification

 

[-Luke-]

@Jennifer + @Bluebell:
Thanks for your replies! I thought about the stress hormones as a possibility. What I think speaks somewhat against this is that my temperature is low when I wake up and rises after breakfast (both before and after). Shouldn't it be a bit higher after waking and dropping after breakfast if I was running on stress hormones before?

@Bluebell: I have never had blood tests done as I don't enjoy being around doctors. I was going strictly by symptoms: low temperature and fairly low pulse rate, cold hands and feet, can't gain weight even if I eat a lot etc. You could be totally right about the conversion from T4 to T3. I suspect that I have somewhat poor liver function.

 

[-Luke-]

To experiment -
Add sugar. Add ice cream. Add cheesecake.
Do that for three days
Then see if you tolerate it better on the fourth day
Let me know if you need clarification

Do you mean pure table sugar? If so, what would be the benefits over sugar/carbs from real food? I eat about 400g of carbs a day, most of that from sugar. 1L grape juice alone gives me 160g.

 

[Bluebell]

Here in UK we can order thyroid blood tests online with blood drops taken at home, don't know if you can do that in Germany but worth doing if you could. Also I did hear of some people reacting to the ribonucleotides, making them feel bad (not just the thyroid component not being so effective).

 

[Peatful]

Thanks for your reply! I was aware that increases the need for certain nutrients, ate a bit more and used more magnesium oil.

My diet right now is pretty simple, not a huge variety of foods:
- Cheese
- Eggs
- Potatoes
- Grape juice
- Apples
- Dried dates
- a bit gelatin
- Shrimps about once a week or once every two weeks

I guess I eat about 3000 calories. Maybe some nutrient like selenium is missing.

If you’re truly hypothyroid
That usually points to your liver not storing glycogen

Therefore, I agree with @Momma

Peat recommended to advocate or windinthepines to eat a pound over sugar over three days to refill liver glycogen

I think you can find this recommendation in the email advice depository thread

Ah just saw your response to momma
Hope this helps

Do you mean pure table sugar? If so, what would be the benefits over sugar/carbs from real food? I eat about 400g of carbs a day, most of that from sugar. 1L grape juice alone gives me 160g.

Edit: i do believe Ray simply said white sugar. A pound. Three days.

 

[-Luke-]

Here in UK we can order thyroid blood tests online with blood drops taken at home, don't know if you can do that in Germany but worth doing if you could. Also I did hear of some people reacting to the ribonucleotides, making them feel bad (not just the thyroid component not being so effective).

Thanks, I'll look into that. I also heard mixed reviews about the ribonucleotides.

 

[Bluebell]

@Jennifer + @Bluebell:
Thanks for your replies! I thought about the stress hormones as a possibility. What I think speaks somewhat against this is that my temperature is low when I wake up and rises after breakfast (both before and after). Shouldn't it be a bit higher after waking and dropping after breakfast if I was running on stress hormones before?

It could be that your cortisol/adrenaline was excessively high on waking before you started NDT, which would have raised your temperature in itself. Then once on NDT, you don't have that any more, and your thyroid hormones have not yet kicked in to bring the temperatures up.
Though it's only 0.2-0.3 degrees difference, and only a few readings over a few days, so maybe not enough to draw conclusions from. Could just be 'noise', and the cold feeling could be you are reacting badly to the supplement.

 

[-Luke-]

It could be that your cortisol/adrenaline was excessively high on waking before you started NDT, which would have raised your temperature in itself. Then once on NDT, you don't have that any more, and your thyroid hormones have not yet kicked in to bring the temperatures up.
Though it's only 0.2-0.3 degrees difference, and only a few readings over a few days, so maybe not enough to draw conclusions from. Could just be 'noise', and the cold feeling could be you are reacting badly to the supplement.

Gotcha. That makes sense. Lowered stress hormones could explain why I sleep longer without waking up so often. Even though I don't feel more refreshed in the morning, rather the contrary. You're also right that a few measurements aren't enough.

 

[Jennifer]

Gotcha. That makes sense. Lowered stress hormones could explain why I sleep longer without waking up so often. Even though I don't feel more refreshed in the morning, rather the contrary. You're also right that a few measurements aren't enough.

When I first started supplementing thyroid, and also whenever I increased my dose, I had a period of about two weeks where I couldn’t keep my eyes open to save my life. I was having to nap multiple times a day. The same thing happened when I first went fruitarian. After two weeks, I got my energy back and then some. The energy I have now is insane. Just yesterday, I was thinking about how I feel like I did as a child. I was constantly dancing, riding my bike, swimming etc. and would only stopped to eat.

 

[-Luke-]

When I first started supplementing thyroid, and also whenever I increased my dose, I had a period of about two weeks where I couldn’t keep my eyes open to save my life. I was having to nap multiple times a day. The same thing happened when I first went fruitarian. After two weeks, I got my energy back and then some. The energy I have now is insane. Just yesterday, I was thinking about how I feel like I did as a child. I was constantly dancing, riding my bike, swimming etc. and would only stopped to eat.

Then the best option for now is probably to just keep going and see how things develop. Probably eat some more like Momma and Peatful suggested. Could very well be a transition period. I hope it turns out well, because I want to live up to your nickname for me.

What you wrote about childhood memories made me smile. Fits your signature. If you feel insane engery, don't let them tame you!

 

[Jessie]

I'm not familiar with the product. Assuming the product itself is fine, you may need to look at other important markers that can directly influence how well you receive thyroid.

Is your serum vitamin D where it should be? What about your zinc levels? As others have mentioned, selenium is mandatory for conversion of T4 into T3. Not just in our supplements but our own endogenous production as well. People who are selenium deficient may not even need thyroid after correcting their deficiency.

Vitamin A is important as well. I recommend eating 1 oz of beef liver everyday.

 

[Sefton10]

I started with Metavive around Christmas too (porcine version). It didn’t feel good at all and my symptoms worsened. I think it’s the added ribonucleotides. I’ve seen a lot of people who were doing well on it previously saying similar after the formula changed. It’s a shame as it looked a good clean version at a reasonable price for the UK. I’ve ordered some Tyromix and will be starting low and slow with that instead.

 

[-Luke-]

I started with Metavive around Christmas too (porcine version). It didn’t feel good at all and my symptoms worsened. I think it’s the added ribonucleotides. I’ve seen a lot of people who were doing well on it previously saying similar after the formula changed. It’s a shame as it looked a good clean version at a reasonable price for the UK. I’ve ordered some Tyromix and will be starting low and slow with that instead.

I didn't know they changed the formula, I read about that product for the first time just before Christmas. It sucks if the "improved" a good product for the worse, especially since it's hard enough to get thyroid in the ******* EU. Maybe they'll change the formula again if enough people complain.

 

[Jennifer]

Then the best option for now is probably to just keep going and see how things develop. Probably eat some more like Momma and Peatful suggested. Could very well be a transition period. I hope it turns out well, because I want to live up to your nickname for me.

What you wrote about childhood memories made me smile. Fits your signature. If you feel insane engery, don't let them tame you!

I think increasing your food intake is a solid plan, especially since you have a hard time gaining weight. Just channel your inner sumo wrestler and I have no doubt that you’ll be a furnace soon enough. Oh, and you already live up to your nickname. :)

Haha! I won’t. Thank you.