How long is it safe to take antibiotics?

[TheBeard]

@TheBeard i know you quite liked Augmentin. Did you find amoxicillin without the clavulanic acid just as effective?

Never tried it and would never venture to try it out of fear of bacterial resistance.

 

[golder]

Never tried it and would never venture to try it out of fear of bacterial resistance.

You’ve never tried amoxicillin alone due to fear of developing bacterial resistance? Is there something about the clavulanic acid that prevents this?

 

[TheBeard]

You’ve never tried amoxicillin alone due to fear of developing bacterial resistance? Is there something about the clavulanic acid that prevents this?

Well yes that was the whole point of adding the clavulanic acid to the amoxicillin.

 

[John mcclain]

I've been having issues like most on here ....years of trying everything peat approved and I mean almost everything...but nothing and I mean NOTHING made me feel like I felt when I took augmentin for 5 days ...all the positive feelings you here people talk about when they dial in the thyroid dose or pregnenolone and progesterone dose I've had little flashes of feeling good but augmentin gave me that in abundance...whilst I won't say that these are the be all end all but it's been the biggest and most drastic improvement ive had to date experimenting....which is a very long time of alot of different stuff....I like most was very much against antibiotics but not any more

 

[TheBeard]

I've been having issues like most on here ....years of trying everything peat approved and I mean almost everything...but nothing and I mean NOTHING made me feel like I felt when I took augmentin for 5 days ...all the positive feelings you here people talk about when they dial in the thyroid dose or pregnenolone and progesterone dose I've had little flashes of feeling good but augmentin gave me that in abundance...whilst I won't say that these are the be all end all but it's been the biggest and most drastic improvement ive had to date experimenting....which is a very long time of alot of different stuff....I like most was very much against antibiotics but not any more

How long ago was that?
No candida overgrowth secondary to your antibiotic course?

 

[John mcclain]

How long ago was that?
No candida overgrowth secondary to your antibiotic course?

A month ago ,yes there was mild candida alri but fine now...my thinking was along the same lines as yourself with period use...but lower dosage...I had my appendix removed at 15 and I beleive it may have something to do with it but who knows..

 

[Hairfedup]

Guys I've been prescribed some Nitrofurantoin for a suspected bladder/urine infection and I've only taken it one so far (slow release 100mg). This thread has absolutely terrified me. Any thoughts? I'm sh***ing it here. What's worse is I'm not even sure I have a bladder or UTI, think I've just got urethritis. Seeing as I've taken one should I continue or is it okay to stop ?

edit: after around 6 hours since the first dose, the constant leaking of urine after taking a piss has already gotten a lot better. Is the 7 day course too much? It seems like antibiotics and their effects really vary from person to person.

 

[Hairfedup]

Guys I've been prescribed some Nitrofurantoin for a suspected bladder/urine infection and I've only taken it one so far (slow release 100mg). This thread has absolutely terrified me. Any thoughts? I'm sh***ing it here. What's worse is I'm not even sure I have a bladder or UTI, think I've just got urethritis. Seeing as I've taken one should I continue or is it okay to stop ?

edit: after around 6 hours since the first dose, the constant leaking of urine after taking a piss has already gotten a lot better. Is the 7 day course too much? It seems like antibiotics and their effects really vary from person to person.

Bumping. The nitrofurantoin seems to just make it worse actually, I think I've got a case of urethritis which require different antibiotics as far as I know. Is it safe to stop taking the nitro after 1 day? Would really appreciate someones input on this. They've given me a 7 day course and all its done is do nothing for my urethritis symptoms and given me a cold.

 

[loess]

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if your symptoms aren't improving and are in fact worsening, it would make sense to stop the nitrofurantoin and seek a prescription for a different antibiotic. Just be certain to avoid ciprofloxacin or any of the fluoroquinolones. Really sorry you're experiencing this, it must be really uncomfortable and distressing.

 

[Hairfedup]

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if your symptoms aren't improving and are in fact worsening, it would make sense to stop the nitrofurantoin and seek a prescription for a different antibiotic. Just be certain to avoid ciprofloxacin or any of the fluoroquinolones. Really sorry you're experiencing this, it must be really uncomfortable and distressing.

Hey thanks for the concern! Yeah I'll make certain to avoid those, I've just been having panic attacks with this whole antibiotics stuff since I've been feeling sick outside of this for years now - sort of just adds to the impending doom hanging over my head. I don't know whether to a 3 day course (?) or maybe even switch over to ethyromycine as i've got some which I've heard is used for urethritis bt like you I'm really no expert with antibiotics so was hoping for some more input. Thanks again

 

['peataphysique]

Antibiotics​

No, I just do it occasionally.

I usually break the tablets up, and use fourths or halves, at intervals according to need. It's important to get some vitamin K1 or K2 when you use an antibiotic (liver or kale, or supplements). Have you checked your thyroid? Low thyroid function is usually behind the dark circles.

For myself, I judge by symptoms; if I feel an effect from a first dose, I take a smaller dose, usually 100mg, the next time, and similar amounts as long as the symptom is decreasing, and when I don't notice any symptom, I take a few smaller doses.

Since most people get some vitamin K from intestinal bacteria, it's important to eat liver or to take a K supplement if you use antibiotics for a long time. After a first big dose or two, you should be able to sense when you have enough in your tissues; it has a noticeable smell or sensation while exhaling. I have found that 3 doses of 100mg per day for a few days is usually enough, after one or two bigger doses.

[Raw garlic as an antibiotic] It's about as hard on the stomach as on the germs.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

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Q:"How long you could use tetra and what is a max dose ? (in your interview with Danny you said antibiotics should be taken longer to clean guts)"

Haidut: I don't know that here is any upper limit. For chronic back pain (which is related to endotoxin) a human study found that 2-3 months duration are needed to successfully treat it. Lyme disease patients also take 6-12 month course of antibiotics. It really depends on the case, and the only issues that I am aware of with long term use is fungal overgrowth and iron deficiency. The iron depletion effects is likely responsible for a good portion of the anti-cancer effects of the tetracyclines.

Did you see my response on the first page? See below.

"...As per Peat's writings and readily verifiable online, vitamin K, emodin, lapachon, and the tetracycline antibiotics class are really the same substance, with varying potency. I think he said that they are in increasing potency in the order I listed them. So, depending on the potency ratio you should be able to achieve what tetracycline does by taking say a higher dose vitamin K. However, the studies with vitamin K show potent anti-cancer effects both for prevention and treatment in human doses 100mg-150mg daily, which is suspiciously close to the therapeutic doses of doxycycline (100mg+ daily). That makes me think that for cancer prevention and treatment vitamin K may not be that much "weaker" than the tetracyclines."

So, if Peat is right then vitamin K is essentially a type of tetracycline as are the other quinones like lapachon and emodin. Maybe I should have said that vitamin K action (as a type of tetracycline) is probably like the other tetracycline antibiotics on cancer. We certainly have evidence for vitamin K preventing and maybe even treating some cancers. I did not mean to say that vitamin K should act like a general purpose antibiotics on micro-organisms, and I don't see who else interpreted it that way. Who are the people you say blindly believed me? And where did you see me recommending or discussing vitamin K to be used as an antibiotic, including on bacterial overgrowth?

RP: Antibiotics vary in toxicity, but in general I think it’s best to use a minimally effective dose if it’s to be continued very long. I think tetracycline, erythromycin, and penicillin are fairly safe.

RP: The antibiotics erythromycin and tetracycline are anti-inflammatory, and might work better than penicillin.

RP: There used to be some products available in health food stores (they are probably still available somewhere) containing B. subtilis and B. licheniformis that produce antibiotics in the intestine (or in milk if you culture them), which are good for people who are afraid of antibiotics in pill form.

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Me: I was wondering what your opinion of DMSO was? Thank you! RP: I think it’s safe for occasional use in small amounts; in the early ‘70s I was interested in it, but I gradually decided that there wasn’t enough known about its metabolism to be sure of its long range safety. People at the...

raypeatforum.com

He recommended minocycline in an e-mail to me but you'll find tetracyclins every now and then in his articles and newsletters.

RP: "I think minocycline is safer than doxycycline, and is very safe. It is antiinflammatory, and has some protective effect against cancer."

Minocycline - Wikipedia

From articles:

"In women and rats, antibiotics were found to cause blood levels of estrogen and cortisol to decrease, while progesterone increased. This effect apparently resulted from the liver's increased ability to inactivate estrogen and to maintain blood sugar when the endotoxin stress was decreased."
Lactate vs. CO2 in wounds, sickness, and aging; the other approach to cancer

"For Koch, antibiotics and anticancer agents weren’t necessarily distinct from each other, and would be expected to have other beneficial effects as well." ((Meaning Frederick William Koch, a really fascinating man, still believed to have been a fraud like so many. RP called him "legit" - probably the highest compliment, Albert von Szent-Györgyi based his nobel prized studies on his work: http://www.williamfkoch.com/web/version2/default.php))
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... buse.shtml

"The tetracyclines, with related structure, have some similar properties, and are antiinflammatory, as well as antibiotic."
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... buse.shtml

"These all make fundamental contributions to the restoration of biological energy. Antibiotics, for example, lower endotoxin formation in the intestine, protect against the induction by endotoxin of serotonin, histamine, estrogen, and cortisol. Acetazolamide causes the tissues to retain carbon dioxide, and increased carbon dioxide acidifies cells, preventing serotonin secretion."
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/th ... ties.shtml

"I have previously discussed the use of antibiotics (and/or carrot fiber and/or charcoal) to relieve the premenstrual syndrome, and have mentioned the study in which the lifespan was extended by occasionally adding charcoal to the diet. A few years ago, I heard about a Mexican farmer who collected his neighbors' runt pigs, and got them to grow normally by adding charcoal to their diet. This probably achieves the same thing as adding antibiotics to their food, which is practiced by pig farmers in the US to promote growth and efficient use of food. Charcoal, besides binding and removing toxins, is also a powerful catalyst for the oxidative destruction of many toxic chemicals. In a sense, it anticipates the action of the protective enzymes of the intestinal wall and the liver."
Food-junk and some mystery ailments: Fatigue, Alzheimer's, Colitis, Immunodeficiency. Carrageenan

I still wouldn't add ondansetron or minocyclin to the supplement list because RP doesn't recommend the regular use. But on the other hand neither does he with cascara. He also recommends benadryl or other antihistamins but not regularly, either. There is a circle of histamin, estrogen, melatonin and the other stress hormones which can be stopped using antihistamins. Or naltrexone in very low doses for that matter.

I have tried the azetasolamide he mentions above, too and had good effects. It kind of increases your CO2 intake, drives water from your cells and so on. You could say azetasolamide has the effects of bag breathing all day long. Adverse effects: tingling fingers and toes from time to time.
Acetazolamide - Wikipedia

It's more fat soluble than tetracycline but Peat thinks tetracycline is safer. Doxycycline has some reports on liver toxicity, but it's still very rare. Most of the studies on cancer are with doxycycline though.

Q. I was wondering your opinion on antibiotic resistance? The mainstream ideas being that frequent, short doses of antibiotics cause antibiotic resistance, which seems common for news companies to report about every now and then. I've heard you say you use antibiotics occasionally and rather low doses. Do you not believe this use of antibiotics can cause antibiotic resistance?


RP: Most of the resistant bacteria are developed in hospitals and industrial animal production, where constant, uninterrupted, use of antibiotics invariably accumulates the resistant strains. Doctors and corporations, knowingly misusing them for increased profit, are the culprits.

 

[Hairfedup]

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Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Me: I was wondering what your opinion of DMSO was? Thank you! RP: I think it’s safe for occasional use in small amounts; in the early ‘70s I was interested in it, but I gradually decided that there wasn’t enough known about its metabolism to be sure of its long range safety. People at the...

raypeatforum.com

Really helpful thanks! Still not sure what to do now that I've started the nitro but I'm guessing its safe to stop. Maybe I'll just do two more days (3) before switching to the ethyro.

 

[Hairfedup]

Hey guys

The nitrofurantoin has badly irritated my bladder and I was struggling to breathe last night in bed. I'm hoping its safe to come off them now? It seems to just be making things worse without helping in any other symptoms. I'm starting to question if I had an infection at all or maybe non-bacterial urethritis. Would really appreciate getting the green light as I haven't got a clue what I'm doing when it comes to antibiotics, I just know after 2 days this stuff is making things worse.

My bladder is really irritated which I'm sure is strange as this antibiotic is supposed to get rid of that, not induce it as far as I know. This symptoms wasn't even present before taking the nitro.

 

[Peatness]

Peripheral Nerve Toxic Effects of Nitrofurantoin

Objective To investigate the role of skin biopsy in nitrofurantoin peripheral neuropathy.Design We describe the clinical features and skin biopsies of 2 cases of non–length-dependent small-fiber neuropathy/ganglionopathy attributable to nitrofurantoin.Setting Clinical evaluation and skin biopsies...

jamanetwork.com

Nitrofurantoin - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Nitrofurantoin-induced liver failure: A fatal yet forgotten complication

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I have not words to describe the doctor who prescribed this antibotics for me