How safe would it be for an 80yr old who refuses to get off statins to take pregnenolone?

[Jigend]

Hello everyone. I'm writing this as I go, and I've divided things in small chunks for easier diggestion

A series of conditions and suspected Culprits​

Recently my grandfather (83) is suffering from a series of conditions which, after careful deliberation on my part, stem from his usage of statins, alpha-blocker diuretics, and a medication which combines ARBs (valsartan & sacubitril).

Out of all these 3, the medicine with the combined ARBs has the most negative side effects written down on the informative paper, including worsening diabetes, renal and hepatic functions -- with him having diabetes and bad (but still operational) kidney function. For some reason, and perhaps due to the covid histeria and Peat himself having said that ARBs (like losartan) could be potentially useful to fight off covid, people in this forum seem "okay" to "meh" in regards to this medicine in regards to covid, since it would be a transitory use. But in regards to chronic usage, the side effects it results in are not a good look.

His Symptoms​

Whatever the case, these are the bad symptoms which he's been having as of late:
- Dizziness
- Extreme lack of strength. Difficulty walking.
- Intermittent edemas that come and go, in the face or feet. Lips will get puffy.
- Vomiting every other day.
- Nausea
- Lack of apetite
- Sleepiness during the day
- Sleeplessness and restlessness during the night
- Lots of cold all the time
- Hypotension

Details from a recent Hospitalization​

More recently (like 5 weeks ago) he was hospitalized. He was feeling too much nausea and confusion and cold. At the time, I assumed it was kidney failure. To my surprise, the diagnosis was that he was an urinary track bacterial infection, which, according to the doctors was such a simple infection that it should not even have gotten there. This obviously, hints at a weakened immune function.

BUT now is where the nice and interesting part comes.

During his stay in the hospital, a good chunk of his medicine stayed at home. When he returned home, his energy levels were way up. I mean, it's not like he was jumping around BUT the energy levels were way up, his voice was loud and clear, and his apetite was way up. I'm trying to find out which, but he doesn't remember.

And then, after being back home for 2 weeks and resuming his medication, the generalized weakness and torpor like state with no appetite partially returned. Not to the point of when he had the urinary tract infection, but nevertheless still a noticeable change. The symptoms are the ones I've described above. He's gotten hypotensive to the point his doctor cut his ARB dose (known to

Problem: Very Hard to get him off Statins​

It's hard (if not impossible) to convince him to drop statins and ARBs. But I've managed to convince him that the alfa-blocker diuretics were also behind his conditions, since, well, it is written right there on the paper in very clear and easy-to-grasp language, namely the drops in DHT and testosterone that will follow after taking them, as well as potential neurological, renal and muscular problems.

If he stops taking the alfa-blocker diuretics, chances are he will have an extra hard time peeing. Because of that I've looked both in the forum and elsewhere about alternative ways to get the enlarged prostate back to a more normal size. I've learned of the usual suspects and some other interesting surprises that may help with enlarged prostates:

- Aspirin
- Zinc (ARBs -- which he's been taking for a long time -- cause a massive drop in zinc, and apparently could lead to enlarged prostate)
- Vit D + K2 combo
- Pregnenolone

Pregnenolone is the solution that fascinates me the most. IN THEORY If he dropped the alpha-blocker diurectics, not only would the prostate situation be more or secured (given how pregnenolone antagonizes estrogen, promotes progesterone and DHEA) as it would be beneficial to most of his other ailments and symptoms.

The Big Question​

The aspect that bothers me is taking it while maintaining a regimen that includes statins. Since these block cholesterol, would there be any impediment for the organism then using the available pregnenolone? Would it be safe. I have 50mg pregnenolone capsules I've used intermittently and their effect (to me) is very mild. Would such a dosage be safe for someone his age? It seems fairly low, and I know Peat has spoken of 300mg once per week, and then letting the body convert it into the hormones it needs.

Any tips, personal anecdotes (in particular with older people taking pregnenolone) and ideas would be massively appreciated.

 

[GTW]

I think would be more constructive to focus on the urinary tract inflammation, possibly persistent/occult infection, as well as adverse effects of the Pharma meds. Not on the conventional mechanistic reductionist dht/hormone proxies.
Chronic inflammation, whatever cause, leads to build up of secretory type senescent cells positive feedback loop.
Statins also address token endpoints (cholesterol) while depleting essential vitamins/enzymes. Read yesterday another adverse effect of statins in addition to cognitive dysfunction and myopathy, cataracts!
Alpha blockers are another red herring goosechase. Doctors would usually accept substitution of herbal supplements including saw palmetto. There are additional foods/supplements to address alpha/beta adrenergic excess. Like maybe theanine/egcg tea complex.

 

[GTW]

Somewhere have a link to study showing echinacea more anti-inflammatory than dexamethasone, aspirin, celecoxib. Still looking for that. Re statins and cataracts:

Why Is Very High Cholesterol Content Beneficial for the Eye Lens but Negative for Other Organs?

The plasma membranes of the human lens fiber cell are overloaded with cholesterol that not only saturates the phospholipid bilayer of these membranes but also leads to the formation of pure cholesterol bilayer domains. Cholesterol level increases with ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Elie]

I have seen a study / studies that show that statins for those over 80 clearly do more harm than good.
Perhaps dig that / those out and present to his doctor...
Pregnanolone is likely safe.

I am an N.D. and some of my greatest successes occur when I wean people over 60s on multiple med off their meds (almost always they are on a statin).

 

[Peatress]

Is he on low sodium diet? Could he be dehydrated?

Sacubitril/valsartan search on VigiAccess

VigiAccess

vigiaccess.org

 

[mostlylurking]

I've managed to convince him that the alfa-blocker diuretics were also behind his conditions, since, well, it is written right there on the paper in very clear and easy-to-grasp language, namely the drops in DHT and testosterone that will follow after taking them, as well as potential neurological, renal and muscular problems

Diuretics are notorious for depleting thiamine (as well as minerals, etc.) The symptoms you have described sound like a thiamine issue, either deficiency or functional blockage. You could search on line for each medication he is taking AND thiamine to see if one (or more) of them are interfering with thiamine.

Thiamine deficiency is more common in older people because they lose the ability to easily absorb it in the small intestine.

suggested reading: Vitamin B1 Thiamine Deficiency - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf
"Deficiency of thiamine can be related to [3]:
Poor intake

• Diets primarily high in polished rice/processed grains
• Chronic alcoholism
• Parenteral nutrition without adequate thiamine supplementation
• Gastric bypass surgery

Poor absorption

• Malnutrition
• Gastric bypass surgery
• Malabsorption syndrome

Increased loss

• Diarrhea
• Hyperemesis gravidarum
• Diuretic use
• Renal replacement therapy

Increased thiamine utilization

• Pregnancy
• Lactation
• Hyperthyroidism
• Refeeding syndrome

Drugs that can lead to thiamine deficiency

Diuretics"
-end-
There is a sublingual thiamine now available that might be worth a try. It tastes terrible but you can break the tablet in half (or smaller) to get used to the method of keeping it under the tongue (tightly, no leakage) for a few minutes. Here's some info about it. There's a link to a supplier at the bottom of the article. A bottle of 100 costs less that $5.00.

Hypothyroidism is also more common in older people. A thyroid supplement (with T3 such as a natural desiccated thyroid like Acella) would improve his energy/resiliency/immune function AND normalize his cholesterol.

suggested reading: Hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) - Symptoms and causes
"Hypothyroidism symptoms may include:

• Tiredness.
• More sensitivity to cold.
• Constipation.
• Dry skin.
• Weight gain.
• Puffy face.
• Hoarse voice.
• Coarse hair and skin.
• Muscle weakness.
• Muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness.
• Menstrual cycles that are heavier than usual or irregular.
• Thinning hair.
• Slowed heart rate, also called bradycardia.
• Depression.
• Memory problems."

-end-

If he stops taking the alfa-blocker diuretics, chances are he will have an extra hard time peeing. Because of that I've looked both in the forum and elsewhere about alternative ways to get the enlarged prostate back to a more normal size. I've learned of the usual suspects and some other interesting surprises that may help with enlarged prostates:

- Aspirin
- Zinc (ARBs -- which he's been taking for a long time -- cause a massive drop in zinc, and apparently could lead to enlarged prostate)
- Vit D + K2 combo
- Pregnenolone

Progesterone itself is supposed to help with an enlarged prostate. Why not simply take the bio-identical progesterone? This topic isn't my strong suit. I know that testosterone is supposed to help.

an article (or two):

Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Leakiness, aging, and cancer

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[GTW]

>Moreover, E. purpurea extracts demonstrated generally a more robust anti-inflammatory activity than clinically used anti-inflammatory drugs (dexamethasone, diclofenac, salicylic acid, and celecoxib). On the Bioactivity of Echinacea purpurea Extracts to Modulate the Production of Inflammatory Mediators