Vileplume
Member
Jennifer, your posts are so rich with information and experience! That excerpt from Peat’s article is fascinating, and makes me rethink the idea that sugar depletes nutrients. I agree with what you said about a diet with milk, liver, fruit, eggs, not needing to worry about sugar “depleting” anything. You just don’t want it to displace any nutrients in the diet, like you said. Thanks.I’ve heard people saying that they deplete nutrients, but I’m not sure if that’s actually true. The caffeine in coffee, tea and chocolate accompany vitamins and minerals and fructose has been shown to help retain nutrients. From Ray’s sugar issues’ article:
“Fructose affects the body's ability to retain other nutrients, including magnesium, copper, calcium, and other minerals. Comparing diets with 20% of the calories from fructose or from cornstarch, Holbrook, et al. (1989) concluded "The results indicate that dietary fructose enhances mineral balance." Ordinarily, things (such as thyroid and vitamin D) which improve the retention of magnesium and other nutrients are considered good, but the fructose mythology allows researchers to conclude, after finding an increased magnesium balance, with either 4% or 20% of energy from fructose (compared to cornstarch, bread, and rice), "that dietary fructose adversely affects macromineral homeostasis in humans." (Milne and Nielsen, 2000).
Another study compared the effects of a diet with plain water, or water containing 13% glucose, or sucrose, or fructose, or high fructose corn syrup on the properties of rats' bones: Bone mineral density and mineral content, and bone strength, and mineral balance. The largest differences were between animals drinking the glucose and the fructose solutions. The rats getting the glucose had reduced phosphorus in their bones, and more calcium in their urine, than the rats that got fructose. "The results suggested that glucose rather than fructose exerted more deleterious effects on mineral balance and bone" (Tsanzi, et al., 2008).
An older experiment compared two groups with an otherwise well balanced diet, lacking vitamin D, containing either 68% starch or 68% sucrose. A third group got the starch diet, but with added vitamin D. The rats on the vitamin D deficient starch diet had very low levels of calcium in their blood, and the calcium content of their bones was low, exactly what is expected with the vitamin D deficiency. However, the rats on the sucrose diet, also vitamin D deficient, had normal levels of calcium in their blood. The sucrose, unlike the starch, maintained claim homeostasis. A radioactive calcium tracer showed normal uptake by the bone, and also apparently normal bone development, although their bones were lighter than those receiving vitamin D.”
I think the potential issue with refined sugar is when it displaces nutrient replete carb sources, like fruit and milk, in a diet already deficient in nutrients, but you’re get plenty from the goat’s milk, coffee, liver and eggs. More from the sugar issues’ article:
“A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions.
Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic.”
Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.
Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar...raypeat.com
There’s also the option of coconut water, particularly ones sourced from Thai coconuts as they tend to be sweeter. When compared calorie for calorie, coconut water is higher than OJ, and even goat’s milk, in many nutrients—B2, B6, copper, Iron, magnesium, manganese, potassium, selenium, sodium and zinc—and unlike fruit, its quality is consistently reliable and less likely to aggravate the intestines, IME—it was one of only a few foods I tolerated when I had gastritis. I keep some raw coconut water in the freezer and powder coconut water in the pantry to have on hand for when available fruit is lousy, which seems to be more often than not.
That’s the case for me, as well. Even when fruit is sweet without any acidity or bitterness, I can still reacted to it. I bought organic grapes from two different markets last week that tasted identical and one batch had me running to the bathroom, while the other batch caused no reaction whatsoever. I did try cutting the cheese (lol) and thought I had found the culprit, until I had that bad batch of grapes. I had extensive blood work done on Saturday and despite the milk fasts and limited diet I’ve been on for a year and a half now, my numbers are shockingly excellent, even iron, so I really think poor quality fruit is to blame for my symptoms and not SIBO or histamines.
There was one summer back in 2009 when I ate nothing but cantaloupe. They were the size of basketballs, incredibly fragrant and dripped of the sweetest nectar. They were all I craved and I felt incredible, however, by the end of the summer, I resembled an Oompa Loompa so it didn’t do my thyroid any favors. I was running on adrenaline and as a person with an under-active thyroid, adrenaline can, in the short term, make me feel amazing compared to that typical, low energized, hypo state and back then, I didn’t know the signs of adrenaline such as a racing heart, cold extremities, frequent urination etc. so it’s far too easy for me to romanticize my fruitarian days.
I’ve never made an attempt to feature coconut water in my diet, even though I’ve heard from you and some others here about it’s effectiveness. It is super rich in nutrients, so maybe I’ll look out for one that doesn’t have added ascorbic acid.
This past week, I’ve taken some steps forward from my prior state of health. For one, I quit my stressful teaching job and will now try to find something remote, because I have observed much lower stress levels when I work from home. Secondly, like you, I found bad fruit to contribute majorly to my problems. I got super bloated and gunked tongue last week, and I determined that it came from a batch of oranges I had gotten from Costco, despite no rot or anything. Yesterday I got a new brand of oranges, and my sleep and mood instantly improved. Thirdly, I think I was eating too many carrots, which slowed my thyroid function. I had gotten cold hands daily for a few weeks, and I thought it was because I took too much cynoplus, but I had warm hands yesterday after just a few days of halving my carrot intake.
I’m so glad to hear that your numbers are good! Do you measure even things like T4 and T3? I got those measured recently but plan to go back one of these days to get cholesterol. I remember reading some of your old posts about your fruit consumption and I became inspired. It’s cool to look back to the beginning of your log and see how far you’ve come since then, and what has changed about your approach (a lot haha). In just a year, my approach has changed a lot too.