Does Low Heart Rate Really Indicate A Problem

[akgrrrl]

I've been struggling with that question, even if the heart rate is not low enough to be called bradychardia. I was asking why Ray Peat was saying that people with higher hear rates at 85 would be healthier than people with heart rates at 70.

Since the answer is harder to come by from studies, I'm just going by reasoning it out. Let's assume we're talking about people who have equal body temperatures, so that we're not talking about a higher body temperature being the cause of faster heart rates. After all, metabolism is not only used to increase body temperature. It is used for many functions in the body. If the body is very functional, meaning all systems are go, it would have to be more active than when the body is sub-functional, where some systems are impaired and not working 100%.

When a system is impaired, it becomes in itself a bottleneck on the larger system. The more systems are impaired, the more bottlenecks there are in the larger system. In a state where there are many bottlenecks, there would be less energy used. With less energy being used, less output results. The output we talk about here are all the things the body produces or does that makes it healthy. Like detoxifying, healing, destroying cells that have outlived their usefulness, regenerating tissues, fighting infections, killing cancer cells. If the body is healthy, it knows how to produce energy efficiently, and it can use this energy well to maintain all the processes the body needs, including helping itself produce energy efficiently and making it effective in sustaining itself.

So, a higher heart rate is indicative of the body being self-directed in making and using energy to keep itself fully functional, with the minimum of bottlenecks in its own factory of a body.

The key to tying heart rate to health is in knowing that the heart rate reflects a healthy demand for energy, not an unhealthy demand for energy coming from bottlenecks that make the heart work extra hard. I would say brachycardia is an unhealthy lack of demand for energy, while tachycardia is an unhealthy and inefficient use of energy by the body. Having a healthy heart rate involves the body being able to both produce and use energy effectively to keep itself at an optimal state. It is able to be full of energy, more than enough to survive and to function well, but to make itself outwardly presentable - nice skin, nice crop of hair, and a happy disposition.

Good and reasonable demonstrable asserts. Please tell me if I am hearing this correctly. So if bradycardia is a primary bottleneck known as a normal symptom of hypothyroidism, established with labs, (whose "ranges" I personally feel are suspect to the degree there exist so many variables in each individual), and that body is still unhealthily making demands for energy which it cannot muster (caloric is 2K-3K days with zero activity, nutrition is fortified, yet 75% of life in bed), then other hormonal (adrenal? other?) bottlenecks may still be influencing and remain undiscovered?
My personal decline was sudden as an event 4+yrs ago and proceeds swiftly without significant rise in temperature or heartrate WITH the ingestion of thyroxine-(diagnosed hypo and neuropathy, no diabetes). I have over 4 years of clinical intakes@40HR. So, lets go here, since I just unloaded misc boxes and furniture from the back of a full, full-size pickup and reached for my stethoscope and thermometer. I got to 98.2 (yay!) but my feet are ice cold, I have goosebumps but a hot face and HR 48. I made demands on my heart with stairs and fairly active work. The cold, numb feet hurt so much its back to bed horizontal on a heating pad for relief in an 80 degree room; the "nerve chills" are all over me. The thyroxine has been tried from 50mg to 125, both synthetic and not, with waves of nerve chills and musclespasms at the higher end dose absolutely intolerable. If "bradycardia is an unhealthy lack of demand for energy", how do I explain the spurts of strength and high energy output at intervals which appear inexplicable? I am the only one here hauling firewood and shoveling snow and gardening. Maybe a better question for this thread is "What kind of clinician would a person seek in the USA to perform an in-depth assessment of heart rate, temps, labs towards discovering the bottlenecks that might allow function in a tolerable range where bradycardia and hypo appear significant but unresolved? Beentheredonethat with Neuros, Cardio, and Internal Medicine at great travel/time/expense, and no, I don't get warm after a nice big piece of grassfed beef. I am losing my feet, hands, and coordination rapidly, then suddenly not. This needs a drilldown approach. Where is a Bottleneck opener?

 

[yerrag]

Good and reasonable demonstrable asserts. Please tell me if I am hearing this correctly. So if bradycardia is a primary bottleneck known as a normal symptom of hypothyroidism, established with labs, (whose "ranges" I personally feel are suspect to the degree there exist so many variables in each individual), and that body is still unhealthily making demands for energy which it cannot muster (caloric is 2K-3K days with zero activity, nutrition is fortified, yet 75% of life in bed), then other hormonal (adrenal? other?) bottlenecks may still be influencing and remain undiscovered?
My personal decline was sudden as an event 4+yrs ago and proceeds swiftly without significant rise in temperature or heartrate WITH the ingestion of thyroxine-(diagnosed hypo and neuropathy, no diabetes). I have over 4 years of clinical intakes@40HR. So, lets go here, since I just unloaded misc boxes and furniture from the back of a full, full-size pickup and reached for my stethoscope and thermometer. I got to 98.2 (yay!) but my feet are ice cold, I have goosebumps but a hot face and HR 48. I made demands on my heart with stairs and fairly active work. The cold, numb feet hurt so much its back to bed horizontal on a heating pad for relief in an 80 degree room; the "nerve chills" are all over me. The thyroxine has been tried from 50mg to 125, both synthetic and not, with waves of nerve chills and musclespasms at the higher end dose absolutely intolerable. If "bradycardia is an unhealthy lack of demand for energy", how do I explain the spurts of strength and high energy output at intervals which appear inexplicable? I am the only one here hauling firewood and shoveling snow and gardening. Maybe a better question for this thread is "What kind of clinician would a person seek in the USA to perform an in-depth assessment of heart rate, temps, labs towards discovering the bottlenecks that might allow function in a tolerable range where bradycardia and hypo appear significant but unresolved? Beentheredonethat with Neuros, Cardio, and Internal Medicine at great travel/time/expense, and no, I don't get warm after a nice big piece of grassfed beef. I am losing my feet, hands, and coordination rapidly, then suddenly not. This needs a drilldown approach. Where is a Bottleneck opener?

The problem with doctors really is that they are like a carpenter. To them everything is a nail and they will hammer it. Doctors don't get it right all the time, especially if you're not a mass manufactured model but a custom built one. So far no person thus far isn't custom built. You and me included. But medicine is taught as if we're mass manufactured. And even if you see naturopaths, there's still a level of indoctrination involved that makes them hew to certain bias, and no amount of new discoveries is going to change what they picked up while being indoctrinated. Between seeing patients, be it en masse with a turnstile in tow, or individually with many questions and tests to understand his context, doctors are not likely to keep up with new information or adapt to other ways to diagnose, as most are just happy to go home to their happy life, and have no incentive to learn new things that might show them to be inadequate. Besides, what if they find out they were wrong? Would they call up each patient they had prescribed PUFAs (or statins) and tell them to stop? They would be inviting lawsuits, be discredited by their peers, and chastised by their medical association, and lose their standing in society.
It is like finding a needle in a haystack - a doctor who can fully understand your context and have a method to untangle each of these bottlenecks, safely and in the right sequence.

In fact, no doctor can reasonably be able to do that because it involves a lot of time to just one patient. The only doctor that can fully understand you is yourself. Only because observing yourself is what you can do best, and no one else can. Which is why there are those who can doctor themselves because they have a method and they follow it, and why there are those consigned to an endless array of drugs and herbs and therapies and protocols and tests, and never get any better.

My eldest sister is one such person, of the latter category. She is doctoring herself. She also sees doctors, but she only does it with no real intent to submit fully to the prescriptions and recommendations of her doctor, having been to so many doctors with not much to show for it. As a brother, I don't even try to help her anymore, knowing how futile it is. She would not follow a doctor, much less someone who isn't. Yet she is always hoping that she can find a facility where she can be treated by someone who "really knows." If only there is such a facility. That facility will need to be strict and even use the cold turkey approach. For now, she is doing another one of those detox packs. It is money and effort not well spent.

There is no silver bullet that will pick up all the pieces in a jigsaw puzzle and put them together in one fell swoop. But there is methodology involved in getting a jigsaw puzzle put back together, and it has to be followed.

Will get back to you on the bottlenecks.

 

[akgrrrl]

The problem with doctors really is that they are like a carpenter. To them everything is a nail and they will hammer it. Doctors don't get it right all the time, especially if you're not a mass manufactured model but a custom built one. So far no person has thus far been custom built. You and me included. But medicine is taught as if we're mass manufactured. And even if you see naturopaths, there's still a level of indoctrination involved that makes them hew to certain bias, and no amount of new discoveries is going to change what they picked up while being indoctrinated. Between seeing patients, be it en masse with a turnstile in tow, or individually with many questions and tests to understand his context, doctors are not likely to keep up with new information or adapt to other ways to diagnose, as most are just happy to go home to their happy life, and have no incentive to learn new things that might show them to be inadequate. Besides, what if they find out they were wrong? Would they call up each patient they had prescribed PUFAs (or statins) and tell them to stop? They would be inviting lawsuits, be discredited by their peers, and chastised by their medical association, and lose their standing in society.
It is like finding a needle in a haystack - a doctor who can fully understand your context and have a method to untangle each of these bottlenecks, safely and in the right sequence.

In fact, no doctor can reasonably be able to do that because it involves a lot of time to just one patient. The only doctor that can fully understand you is yourself. Only because observing yourself is what you can do best, and no one else can. Which is why there are those who can doctor themselves because they have a method and they follow it, and why there are those consigned to an endless array of drugs and herbs and therapies and protocols and tests, and never get any better.

My eldest sister is one such person, of the latter category. She is doctoring herself. She also sees doctors, but she only does it with no real intent to submit fully to the prescriptions and recommendations of her doctor, having been to so many doctors with not much to show for it. As a brother, I don't even try to help her anymore, knowing how futile it is. She would not follow a doctor, much less someone who isn't. Yet she is always hoping that she can find a facility where she can be treated by someone who "really knows." If only there is such a facility. That facility will need to be strict and even use the cold turkey approach. For now, she is doing another one of those detox packs. It is money and effort not well spent.

There is no silver bullet that will pick up all the pieces in a jigsaw puzzle and put them together in one fell swoop. But there is methodology involved in getting a jigsaw puzzle put back together, and it has to be followed.

Will get back to you on the bottlenecks.

That was awesome yerrag.
Not too many in the population know how to express the complicated system that "doctoring" is built upon....your very kind explain does punctuate my sense of desperation, heightened by my perception ? the lack of options and isolation. I never thought a silver bullet solution, but I know there has to be more than the simple blood panel I had. I ditched that D.O. Dec 6th , the only guy in town, so will have no source to get my progesterone, Levoxyl, and am really frightened on the benzo withdrawal. I sure would like someone to talk to about that. What I am reading here so far has my cortisol already rising...

 

[Luckytype]

That was awesome yerrag.
Not too many in the population know how to express the complicated system that "doctoring" is built upon....your very kind explain does punctuate my sense of desperation, heightened by my perception ? the lack of options and isolation. I never thought a silver bullet solution, but I know there has to be more than the simple blood panel I had. I ditched that D.O. Dec 6th , the only guy in town, so will have no source to get my progesterone, Levoxyl, and am really frightened on the benzo withdrawal. I sure would like someone to talk to about that. What I am reading here so far has my cortisol already rising...

@akgrrrl do a quick forum search, as long as youre comfortable measuring your own metrics like temp still, there are a few ways and good suppliers to get you progesterone and thyroid replacement.

 

[akgrrrl]

@akgrrrl do a quick forum search, as long as youre comfortable measuring your own metrics like temp still, there are a few ways and good suppliers to get you progesterone and thyroid replacement.

Thank you for that encouragement. I will. There have been so many tears since I found Ray Peat articles, I wish all the members and mods knew how much gratitude I have for the expansion of Ray Peat methods through this community.

 

[Lilac]

First off: I am not a big league Ray Peat Forum poster. So this is only an ordinary Peater's take.

The salient points in your story were, for me, a very active person living in Alaska has a serious accident and years later starts having strong hypothyroid symptoms.

Strenuous activity, harsh environment, plus lingering issues from the accident may add up to asking too much of your body.

Can you reduce your activity level? Have you used red lights or sauna in the winter?

I hadn't heard of inhaling botanicals, but it comes up often in the forum that lavender is estrogenic. Maybe other forum members could weigh in on that aspect of your routine.

Pulling for you!

 

[Blossom]

First off: I am not a big league Ray Peat Forum poster. So this is only an ordinary Peater's take.

The salient points in your story were, for me, a very active person living in Alaska has a serious accident and years later starts having strong hypothyroid symptoms.

Strenuous activity, harsh environment, plus lingering issues from the accident may add up to asking too much of your body.

Can you reduce your activity level? Have you used red lights or sauna in the winter?

I hadn't heard of inhaling botanicals, but it comes up often in the forum that lavender is estrogenic. Maybe other forum members could weigh in on that aspect of your routine.

Pulling for you!

I agree with everything @Lilac has said. Welcome to the forum @akgrrrl. @Luckytype has a valid point on progesterone and thyroid supplements. Many here are able to manage these things on their own but it takes time, effort and doing your own research which you seem quite capable of judging by all you've survived thus far.

 

[tara]

These "ranges" are set by whom? Insurance companies?

Here's some of Dr Ray Peat's perspective on the the ranges:
Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.
There are other related articles there on his site.

And so...after all these comments on the thread of "low heart rate"...so WHAT if its called bradycardia and you have it? Why is it bad?

AIUI, heart rate combined with pulse pressure is related to blood flow, which increases or decreases related to oxygen use by cells/tissues. So very low heart rate usually means low oxygen consumption, and low production of energy by tissues in the body. Which means potentially not producing enough energy to run all bodily functions optimally, or to maintain adequate heat to maintain good body temperature throughout.
Because metabolism (energy use) can be driven by more or less base metabolism (signaled by thyroid hormones) or stress mechanisms (eg adrenaline, cortisol), and because stress and other factors can also affect heart-rate, it is probably best to use heart-rate as one indicator together with other signs and symptoms to get an idea about metabolism.

Personally, I've had lots of times when I've had frozen feet and warm body and head with my health issues. I think various stress mechanisms can contribute to that. But maybe your spinal injuries could well have had a particular additional effects for you.

I too, as a non-expert, favour reading up about the ways you can monitor your own metabolism, and consider whether there are more ways you can (cautiously)see if you can improve on your situation.
Sounds as though you have done quite a bit with nutrition already - good for you. If you want to spell out more detail, perhaps ion a log thread or something of your own, you might get more ideas, if you want them.

Good luck

 

[Luckytype]

Thank you for that encouragement. I will. There have been so many tears since I found Ray Peat articles, I wish all the members and mods knew how much gratitude I have for the expansion of Ray Peat methods through this community.

Its huge here, i think the big thing is most of us just had to believe we can manage our own well being simply because modern medicine with regard to general health is often incorrect until something is grossly wrong.

Unfortunately so many put their trust in people who unfortunately just unintelligently regurgitate. I can recall dampened eyes finally finding out some answers to put me in a bettet direction.

I agree with everything @Lilac has said. Welcome to the forum @akgrrrl. @Luckytype has a valid point on progesterone and thyroid supplements. Many here are able to manage these things on their own but it takes time, effort and doing your own research which you seem quite capable of judging by all you've survived thus far.

And patience. So much patience. A lot of people forget the symptoms we have are sometimes from choices made months or years back. It takes weeks and months for small things to affect compromised people. Make a slight change and stick to it, after a while add to it.

 

[akgrrrl]

Here's some of Dr Ray Peat's perspective on the the ranges:
Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.
There are other related articles there on his site.


AIUI, heart rate combined with pulse pressure is related to blood flow, which increases or decreases related to oxygen use by cells/tissues. So very low heart rate usually means low oxygen consumption, and low production of energy by tissues in the body. Which means potentially not producing enough energy to run all bodily functions optimally, or to maintain adequate heat to maintain good body temperature throughout.
Because metabolism (energy use) can be driven by more or less base metabolism (signaled by thyroid hormones) or stress mechanisms (eg adrenaline, cortisol), and because stress and other factors can also affect heart-rate, it is probably best to use heart-rate as one indicator together with other signs and symptoms to get an idea about metabolism.

Personally, I've had lots of times when I've had frozen feet and warm body and head with my health issues. I think various stress mechanisms can contribute to that. But maybe your spinal injuries could well have had a particular additional effects for you.

I too, as a non-expert, favour reading up about the ways you can monitor your own metabolism, and consider whether there are more ways you can (cautiously)see if you can improve on your situation.
Sounds as though you have done quite a bit with nutrition already - good for you. If you want to spell out more detail, perhaps ion a log thread or something of your own, you might get more ideas, if you want them.

Good luck

SO helpful. Reading reading reading, and your explain and care so very appreciated. Thank you.

 

[akgrrrl]

First off: I am not a big league Ray Peat Forum poster. So this is only an ordinary Peater's take.

The salient points in your story were, for me, a very active person living in Alaska has a serious accident and years later starts having strong hypothyroid symptoms.

Strenuous activity, harsh environment, plus lingering issues from the accident may add up to asking too much of your body.

Can you reduce your activity level? Have you used red lights or sauna in the winter?

I hadn't heard of inhaling botanicals, but it comes up often in the forum that lavender is estrogenic. Maybe other forum members could weigh in on that aspect of your routine.

Pulling for you!

Gosh, Lilac I really liked that you pulled an overview of salient points here. I have only realized recently, how arduous life here has been over the years, as Horizontal becomes more necessary. And, not having a tribe puts me in a category like no other as well for stressors---its all me.Presently we have 20 hrs of daylight, so that means uber growth-- mowing and whacking back the woodlands is every 5 days or so, and keeping up with slugs and weeds in the gardens or no food (not to mention the moose and wabbits who like my garden but not my pellet gun) so there is def hyper-vigilance in many ways as stated before. Likewise in winter, if you fail to remove snow, it packs down and becomes ice. Or, you might not make it out your door or make it home up the driveway. All salient points for a woman with rebuilt wrists, eh? Boy howdy, I have stories of looking out the window and watching my truck slide sideways in the driveway all by itself; my motorhome van has a crashed headlight and rim from kissing a birch tree same way. So, as you point out---at the mercy of the environs very strenuous. I am embarrassed to say that I built a sauna, but have never been able to use it. (its two story, and I had the accident before I could get a bridge built from the house to it, and can't do ladders.) I have not used red lights---does that mean far-infra-red?

 

[yerrag]

That was awesome yerrag.
Not too many in the population know how to express the complicated system that "doctoring" is built upon....your very kind explain does punctuate my sense of desperation, heightened by my perception ? the lack of options and isolation. I never thought a silver bullet solution, but I know there has to be more than the simple blood panel I had. I ditched that D.O. Dec 6th , the only guy in town, so will have no source to get my progesterone, Levoxyl, and am really frightened on the benzo withdrawal. I sure would like someone to talk to about that. What I am reading here so far has my cortisol already rising...

With what you have shared of your accident and how you set about working to get yourself better, I sense that you are resonating well with the idea of bottlenecks. That you were able to get some things working against naysayers in experts shows how well you understand your body. We all started whole and ordinary but became unique in the different permutations of what's been taken away from our vitality - toxicity in chemicals, foods, heavy metals; deficiencies of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients; and trauma that misdirects and limits the flow of energy. That we are unique in what's been subtracted from us making each of us potentially our own best doctor, as we know ourselves better than anyone else. Very often we get kind advice from others that are not applicable in our context, and so we have to learn to filter the advice so that we can benefit from the common context that is part of the advice. We end up synthesizing this into our very own way of approaching our unique set of pathology and maladapted condition.

I've come to see bottlenecks not always as a bad thing. Some bottlenecks are good because it's the body's way of adapting to a situation that isn't ideal. Seen this way, a bottleneck may have to be accepted and tolerated, as in itself it isn't the cause of the problem, but is in fact the body's way to deal with the actual problem. With that said, we can understand that we don't want to treat this bottleneck, but want to focus on the problem that made it necessary for the body to impose such a bottleneck.

I think you can find an example from your own context. In my case, I have high blood pressure. This came from a bottleneck imposed by my body in the form of constricted arteries in my kidneys. I could take Rx drugs to relieve the constriction, and if my blood pressure becomes normal, what I'm really doing is fighting my body's way of protecting itself from harm. I was relying suffering from lead toxicity in my kidneys, which is creating oxidative stress. Constricting the arteries/capillaries in my kidneys creates hypoxia, which allows uric acid to be produced. The uric acid, being an antiozidant, protects my kidneys from the oxidative stress destroying my kidneys. This is an example of accepting and tolerating a bottleneck. Yes, it's not the ideal situation, but better than relieving a bottleneck that would create an even more dangerous situation.

Most people would take a drug to relieve this kind of bottleneck. That just gives them the false assurance that they are healthy - by the blood pressure numbers. They think they can move on. But in reality, they can't. They likely will be slapped with failing kidneys, and they will wonder what happened. And their doctors will mouth off reasons ranging from genes to this trite word called stress. But a better outcome would result if they didn't look for quick 'silver bullet' solutions (in the form of instant lower blood pressure) but actually find the actual cause and work on eliminating the cause, by working on chelating the lead out of the kidneys. Once the lead is chelated out from the body by excretion (urine and feces), the arteries in the kidneys would be no longer need to be constricted, and the blood pressure will become normal. However, from my experience, this is easier said than done. I have to stand firm against advice from both conventional and naturopathic doctors to take hypertensive drugs, and I had to spend years finding the actual cause, and just as many years to find a good way to chelate the lead out of my kidneys. My first instance of high blood pressure was in 2005. I have never taken blood pressure medication, and my blood pressure had gone to as high as 240/140. Pretty scary high. But I wasn't feeling any headache. But I've started to lose a lot of hair, but hey it's external. Thankfully, I have started to slowly lower my blood pressure and now it's hovering from 170/110 to 180/120, still high, but from where I was, I see a good trend - going down by the day.

The other bottleneck is the one that is imposed on the body. This type, you can direct efforts towards relieving this bottleneck. An example is my low endurance when I run long distances. I would train hard, but I get winded after running 1 kilometer. I kept thinking I'm not training hard enough. Then, after some tests, I realized I had plenty of mercury in system. Turns out that mercury displaces oxygen that is attached to hemoglobin. I was getting little oxygen because of mercury toxicity, and I was getting depleted of oxygen easily. This explains my lack of endurance.

I had 11 silver fillings replaced, and set about chelating the mercury out of my body. Since then, I would be running 5 kilometers easily even with no training. This is one bottleneck that I can do without, and eliminating this bottleneck can only do good things.

It would really help to sit down and identify some of the bottlenecks in your system. And then see which ones are the former, and which ones are the latter. Then go about how you'll address them in your mind, and formulate an initial strategy and approach to it. While you are out there in the boondocks and away from the convenience of a city, it can be a good thing as you're forced to think things through.

I hope I was of help in sharing this with you.

 

[akgrrrl]

Totally yerrag. I am getting it. I have years of spirals filled with daily foods- caloric consumption/activity and events. I should begin to collate and extrapolate while staying on RayPeat articles and forum. It is a daunting prospect, but I see in your testimony a determination that resonates with me, despite not having the education component. As I have mentioned in another thread, the tears come streaming so easily when I am here. The "ah ha" moments and the tiny thread of hope is here within a caring, sharing community. I am so grateful to be here, thank you for opening your story to me as an example. Priceless to me, where life here is every man for himself. I have wanted out for years, but seem so engaged with the short term survival in the day to day, that planning and getting out (no resources, no family, no place to "go") have waylaid that option. "sit down, identify some bottlenecks in your system" I really needed that. And another, so helpful in another thread..."patience. Try one thing, add slowly". Bursting with gratitude me.

 

[Lilac]

Some ideas:

In one of his books, I believe, Ray recommends a summer in Alaska for treating depression or hypothyroidism. So perhaps maximize the next few months and get as much sunlight as possible, with emphasis on morning and afternoon red light. I had a stubborn snow-shoveling/ice-breaking injury with numbness that did not clear until the summer, when I would lay in the sun. Thin cotton clothing, or no clothing for sunbathing, and especially exposure to the head and neck (all Peat recommendations).

I try progesterone (in the form of Progest-E) on every problem--even the cats'. It doesn't always work, but as Ray says, there is no known toxic amount--so minimal risk. Rub it into your injured area with coconut oil. Someone on these boards said it cured a frozen shoulder of many years duration.

 

[akgrrrl]

Some ideas:

In one of his books, I believe, Ray recommends a summer in Alaska for treating depression or hypothyroidism. So perhaps maximize the next few months and get as much sunlight as possible, with emphasis on morning and afternoon red light. I had a stubborn snow-shoveling/ice-breaking injury with numbness that did not clear until the summer, when I would lay in the sun. Thin cotton clothing, or no clothing for sunbathing, and especially exposure to the head and neck (all Peat recommendations).

I try progesterone (in the form of Progest-E) on every problem--even the cats'. It doesn't always work, but as Ray says, there is no known toxic amount--so minimal risk. Rub it into your injured area with coconut oil. Someone on these boards said it cured a frozen shoulder of many years duration.

Hello Lilac, that RayPeat recommend must have been years ago, because now we mostly have rain and overcast during summers. I've been here 27 years, and climate is very different than even 5 years ago. Yesterday, 40 degrees and rain. Last year, the state fair which normally boasts 90 lb cabbages from the agricultural valley of Matanuska (brimming with volcanic and mountain minerals runoff) was pitiful. Light, but no sun. Depression and SAD syndrome rampant. Cabin fever and alcoholism. I want sun so badly I can hardly stand it! and Earthing...and humans that can string actual english words into sentences without sexual overtures. I have sworn to get on the last ferry in Sept with my van, dog and some few belongings, WALKING AWAY from a huge property and 2400sq ft home with every antique and leatherbound book in it. Currently, there are over 1,000 "homes" for sale bordering a 2 million acres Wildlife Refuge. Its a soul-sucking place unless you are here on vacation in a motorhome with money and a fishing pole. Those people will tell you how wonderful it is. Majestic, raw, pristine, vivid. All true until you step off the bus and realize you are a part of the food chain. (2 and 4 legged)

I love the progest suggests. But I have yet to find the source for supplements on the forum or on the Articles page. Thank you so much for being out there. I have no doubt that depression has a large part in the bottlenecks exacerbating my conditions. However, I have learned by living here, that environment is exactly responsible for human outcomes in development and disease, whether from culture, food, air, water, community or lack of, medicine, education and lack of, and the consistent stressors of said place. PLACE is everything.

 

[Blossom]

As far as red light is concerned it's quite the topic here which you can read about at your leisure but in the meantime there are simple ones you could possibly get locally like a 500 watt halogen shop light or broader lamp that would give you some red light and warmth even though the appearance is warm white. It might be especially helpful to shine on your lower legs and feet. There are specialty ones like the @LifeGivingStore sells that are more geared toward therapeutic benefits and you might eventually decide that would be a better option at some point after researching more. The light is supposed to help cellular respiration and metabolism. Ray has mentioned the lack of adequate light as one of the main reasons behind aging. As @Lilac remarked I think taking advantage of the long days in Alaska right now would be helpful too.

 

[Blossom]

Oh, I was posting the same time as you. I'm sorry to hear there isn't much sun lately!

 

[tara]

I love the progest suggests. But I have yet to find the source for supplements on the forum or on the Articles page.

Peat patented a formulation of progesterone dissolved in vit-E, which can be delivered either quickly systemically by rubbing on gums, or locally transdermally with a little olive oil. I'm not aware of any formulations that exactly match his patent, but there are peolple here who have had benefit from:
Progest-E (Kenogen) - various suppliers, I'm not sure where is best value currently, but here is one: http://www.electricalbody.com/product/natural-progesterone-oil.htm
Progestene (Idealabs, run by forum member Haidut) https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/progestene-liquid-progesterone-bioidentical.7442/
Simply Progesterone (HealthNatura) https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/progesterone-now-available.8927/

I have no affiliation with any of the suppliers, and have used Progest-e.

You can read Peat's articles about progesterone and estrogen, and read threads here about different experiences. It has been really helpful for some, but not everyone.

I'm definitely not trying to talk you out of using it, but I'll mention a couple of provisos:
- Extreme doses can cause anaesthesia, and really extreme doses can cause dangerous anaesthesia. It's not hard to avoid, but just wanted to say that in case you got the impression you could just receive and use a whole bottle immediately with no risk. If you take small repeated doses while learning about it, rather than massive ones, you will stop before you get anywhere near that.
- If you take daily doses, the liver may become more efficient at eliminating it. Peat has suggested mitigating this by cycling.

 

[akgrrrl]

Peat patented a formulation of progesterone dissolved in vit-E, which can be delivered either quickly systemically by rubbing on gums, or locally transdermally with a little olive oil. I'm not aware of any formulations that exactly match his patent, but there are peolple here who have had benefit from:
Progest-E (Kenogen) - various suppliers, I'm not sure where is best value currently, but here is one: Natural Progesterone Oil | Progest E Complex
Progestene (Idealabs, run by forum member Haidut) Progestene - Liquid Progesterone (bioidentical)
Simply Progesterone (HealthNatura) Progesterone Now Available!

I have no affiliation with any of the suppliers, and have used Progest-e.

You can read Peat's articles about progesterone and estrogen, and read threads here about different experiences. It has been really helpful for some, but not everyone.

I'm definitely not trying to talk you out of using it, but I'll mention a couple of provisos:
- Extreme doses can cause anaesthesia, and really extreme doses can cause dangerous anaesthesia. It's not hard to avoid, but just wanted to say that in case you got the impression you could just receive and use a whole bottle immediately with no risk. If you take small repeated doses while learning about it, rather than massive ones, you will stop before you get anywhere near that.
- If you take daily doses, the liver may become more efficient at eliminating it. Peat has suggested mitigating this by cycling.

Tara thank you, I had been reading the articles presently, but I really appreciate the provisos, as I have been on 100mg of progesterone daily for some time...could explain a few things, time for a rest.

 

[TheBeard]

I have just read someones comment that peating is all about raising metabolism. So the temp and heart rate are indicators of this raised metabolism.

I take thyroid meds - 125 T4 and occasional T3 (5mcg once every few days). Generally my health is good, but i do have off days and can be quite tired and low in mood at least once per week. So i suppose i still have some metabolism issues. I also use progestE which i find very useful.

Now my temp is always pretty good. 36.5C when i wake and 37C in the daytime.

One thing i just cannot change is a very low heart rate. It runs at 40-44 beats usually when i am in bed watching Tv. So i imagine it goes into the 30's when asleep. Generally if i take my HR in the day and sit down for a minute it will be high 40's. I play sport and have seen my HR go to 180 when in a proper game of squash. So it can go pretty high.

So what do people think about a low HR. Does it indicate i have low metabolic problems or is it just one of those things i have. Prior to reading about metabolic issues i always thought a low HR was good for someone.

Low resting heart rate means you are healthy and have good stamina.
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