NDT Causing Increased Heart Rate, but Not Helping Temps Throughout the Day--What's Going on?

[FitnessMike]

OP said it does, and you gave him advice to take synthetic cortisone.

Well there are books that in all seriousness claims alien abduction is real, or that calcium is toxic and you should avoid it at all costs.

Are those books about adrenal fatigue based on sound science?

i never advise anyone to take cortisol, i only said that i will be most likely trying cortisol as i don't tolerate thyroid too.

Dr Peatfields book for instance "Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy" talks about the thyroid-cortisol connection, and no, this book isnt about adrenal fatigue lol.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks for the reply. It does seem like a stronger stress reaction with a higher dose, but wouldn’t the high heart rate and feelings of stress indicate high cortisol rather than low? How would more cortisol help?




Thanks. So if I’m feeling higher degrees of subjective mental stress during this experience with more NDT, also indicated by higher HR, would pregnenolone play a calming role? I’m nervous of pushing the system too far, as JanP mentioned. Do you think preg might make this worse?


Thank you. I do think thiamine would help. I have thiamine HCL back at home (on vacation now) so when I get back I’ll try it. Thanks also for posting those videos. I have not yet had the chance to watch them, but I will. What do you recommend for a daily dose of thiamine, safe to continue indefinitely?




Thanks. I definitely do my best to cut pufa, but that seems like a long term strategy. I want to feel better now haha. Not sure if that’s possible, I know I just need to be patient. I have some niacinamide powder from bulksupplements. Do you think it might risk pushing my metabolism too far, like JanP mentioned?

thanks for the reply and information. I already eat over 4000 calories a day, so I’m not sure increasing them would do much right now. Perhaps I just need more time on the 1/2 grain, to let the thyroxine build up fully before trying to move on to a higher dose.

Thiamine dosage is discussed in the Chandler Marrs video. I haven't been at this long enough to give guidance. I can say that I am now taking 375 mg three times a day of thiamine hcl (with matching magnesium) and it seems to be working and I am improving. I plan to keep this dose or move up a little more to try to get the inflammation out of my hip joints. I haven't had any negative reaction from the thiamine hcl and my head/brain symptoms are much better.

Chandler Marrs did mention that thiamine can cause heart palpitations in some vulnerable people, so says it is helpful to have a good physician helping (if you can find one); otherwise be aware and go slow to learn if you will have a reaction. I did not.

I was not able to tolerate the TTFD; 50 mg. resulted in a 24 hour headache. I may try it again after taking a good B-complex for a while as I may have other B vitamin deficiencies that are causing the problem. I'll have to talk myself into it; a 24 hour headache isn't much fun.

 

[Vileplume]

Cut the dose back to 1/2 grain NDT, also cut my vitamin D dose from 8000 IU to 4000 IU. Also replaced juice with whole fruit. Also upped my magnesium a bit.

My heart rate has calmed down after two days of the halved doses. HR now hovers around 90 when sedentary. Temps still in the low 98’s all day, but I will stay at this dose for a bit and see how it goes.

 

[Vileplume]

Thiamine dosage is discussed in the Chandler Marrs video. I haven't been at this long enough to give guidance. I can say that I am now taking 375 mg three times a day of thiamine hcl (with matching magnesium) and it seems to be working and I am improving. I plan to keep this dose or move up a little more to try to get the inflammation out of my hip joints. I haven't had any negative reaction from the thiamine hcl and my head/brain symptoms are much better.

Chandler Marrs did mention that thiamine can cause heart palpitations in some vulnerable people, so says it is helpful to have a good physician helping (if you can find one); otherwise be aware and go slow to learn if you will have a reaction. I did not.

I was not able to tolerate the TTFD; 50 mg. resulted in a 24 hour headache. I may try it again after taking a good B-complex for a while as I may have other B vitamin deficiencies that are causing the problem. I'll have to talk myself into it; a 24 hour headache isn't much fun.

Thank you for this information. I’m excited to try thiamine when I get my hands back on it

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks for the reply. It does seem like a stronger stress reaction with a higher dose, but wouldn’t the high heart rate and feelings of stress indicate high cortisol rather than low? How would more cortisol help?




Thanks. So if I’m feeling higher degrees of subjective mental stress during this experience with more NDT, also indicated by higher HR, would pregnenolone play a calming role? I’m nervous of pushing the system too far, as JanP mentioned. Do you think preg might make this worse?


Thank you. I do think thiamine would help. I have thiamine HCL back at home (on vacation now) so when I get back I’ll try it. Thanks also for posting those videos. I have not yet had the chance to watch them, but I will. What do you recommend for a daily dose of thiamine, safe to continue indefinitely?




Thanks. I definitely do my best to cut pufa, but that seems like a long term strategy. I want to feel better now haha. Not sure if that’s possible, I know I just need to be patient. I have some niacinamide powder from bulksupplements. Do you think it might risk pushing my metabolism too far, like JanP mentioned?

thanks for the reply and information. I already eat over 4000 calories a day, so I’m not sure increasing them would do much right now. Perhaps I just need more time on the 1/2 grain, to let the thyroxine build up fully before trying to move on to a higher dose.

I just read through this again. A thought: read up on niacinamide: Ray Peat, PhD Quotes on Therapeutic Effects of Niacinamide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS) A reasonable dose of 90 mg 2-3 times a day may be very helpful, along with the same dose (90mg) of thiamine. The niacinamide will stop the fatty acids from becoming "free" in the blood and will keep them safely parked in the fat cells. It will help a lot if you have been eating PUFA over the past few years. I've heard Ray Peat say that these are safe amounts to take. Here's a search for Niacinamide and Ray Peat: Programmable Search Engine

 

[Vileplume]

I just read through this again. A thought: read up on niacinamide: Ray Peat, PhD Quotes on Therapeutic Effects of Niacinamide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS) A reasonable dose of 90 mg 2-3 times a day may be very helpful, along with the same dose (90mg) of thiamine. The niacinamide will stop the fatty acids from becoming "free" in the blood and will keep them safely parked in the fat cells. It will help a lot if you have been eating PUFA over the past few years. I've heard Ray Peat say that these are safe amounts to take. Here's a search for Niacinamide and Ray Peat: Programmable Search Engine

Definitely agreed. I actually made a b complex myself out of all the Bs, in appropriate ratios. I got bulk powders of each B from bulksupplements

 

[Peater Pan]

Wouldn't use thyroid.

What would you do if you would not tolerate thyroid despite high enough calories/nutrients AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE A THYROID?

 

[Peater Pan]

OP said it does, and you gave him advice to take synthetic cortisone.

Well there are books that in all seriousness claims alien abduction is real, or that calcium is toxic and you should avoid it at all costs.

Are those books about adrenal fatigue based on sound science?

"While hypothyroidism makes the body require more cortisone to sustain blood sugar and energy production, it also limits the ability to produce cortisone, so in some cases stress produces symptoms resulting from a deficiency of cortisone, including various forms of arthritis and more generalized types of chronic inflammation.
Often, a small physiological dose of natural hydrocortisone can help the patient meet the stress, without causing harmful side-effects. While treating the symptoms with cortisone for a short time, it is important to try to learn the basic cause of the problem, by checking for hypothyroidism, vitamin A deficiency, protein deficiency, a lack of sunlight, etc. (I suspect that light on the skin directly increases the skin's production of steroids, without depending on other organs. Different steroids probably involve different frequencies of light, but orange and red light seem to be important frequencies.) Using cortisone in this way, physiologically rather than pharmacologically, it is not likely to cause the serious problems mentioned above."

—Ray Peat, PhD
Blocking Tissue Destruction

 

[Vileplume]

Hi again, I'll answer here to you as well. Yes I think once you are starting thyroid, pregnenolone and magnesium especially are useful and stabilizing to utilizing the thyroid efficiently. I never experienced insomnia from pregnenolone at any dose however, I recommend using the pregnenolone in the morning if your sleep is easily disturbed.

I was reading through the Ray Peat email exchanges on cortisol and he mentioned that if low cortisol really is the issue, like I suspect it might be with me, that progesterone would work even more directly than pregnenolone. Do you think progesterone might be an even better option, accompanying the thyroid?

 

[Peater Pan]

This is obvious stress reaction. Your body can't handle the increased metabolic rate, so it raises adrenaline and cortisol to catabolise your body tissue in desperate attempt to get more energy, and decrease your body temperature to conserve energy.

You need to significantly decrease the dose of NDT, eat more calories, or preferably both.

Supplementing cortisone is seriously the dumbest thing you can do in this situation (or any situation for that matter). Supplementing niacinamide is also very bad idea since niacinamide boosts metabolic rate too. Pregnenolone raises both metabolic rate and cortisol levels = even more stress and catabolism.

This topic is a good reminder why you should not take advice from random people on the internet

How would someone with no endogenous thyroid production handle this situation?

 

[jb116]

I was reading through the Ray Peat email exchanges on cortisol and he mentioned that if low cortisol really is the issue, like I suspect it might be with me, that progesterone would work even more directly than pregnenolone. Do you think progesterone might be an even better option, accompanying the thyroid?

Yes progesterone will have more direct action while pregnenolone will cover wider bases. If you suspect the low cortisol, and access to progesterone, give that a shot instead.