Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

Blossom

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I have not actually read the ebooks yet, I should though because a big question I have is how he got from "limiting A cures many issues" to "it's always a toxin".
I don’t think he actually thinks it’s always a toxin. My impression from reading his ebooks (twice) is that he thinks it can easily become a toxin much more so than commonly recognized but that the body is good at managing it up to that point. He even admitted recently in a post I quoted earlier in this thread that he could end up being wrong (although he is doubtful). He does say he is trying to prove it isn’t an essential nutrient with his N1 experiment.
 

Makrosky

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Someone who has a robust metabolism can handle the breakdown of PUFA in a healthy way.

If you have the stomach or patience, read about from this page onwards on some of the comments about PUFA

Take It Slow

One of the guys basically says that one can actually eliminate the negative effects of PUFA in a healthy metabolism. It is probably why some people report here little to negative effect eating PUFA's while on vacation in a tropical climate.
Believe me "tropical climate" can be VERY bad for the metabolism. High temperatures with high humidity is absolutely very bad for metabolism. Dry, semi high altitude (1500 m) is much better.

PS. I know yours was just an example
 

InChristAlone

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Someone who has a robust metabolism can handle the breakdown of PUFA in a healthy way.

If you have the stomach or patience, read about from this page onwards on some of the comments about PUFA

Take It Slow

One of the guys basically says that one can actually eliminate the negative effects of PUFA in a healthy metabolism. It is probably why some people report here little to negative effect eating PUFA's while on vacation in a tropical climate.
Oh boy, Kruse??

Yeah I generally just try to keep it at 4 grams a day with some cheat meals here and there.
 

InChristAlone

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I don’t think he actually thinks it’s always a toxin. My impression from reading his ebooks (twice) is that he thinks it can easily become a toxin much more so than commonly recognized but that the body is good at managing it up to that point. He even admitted recently in a post I quoted earlier in this thread that he could end up being wrong (although he is doubtful). He does say he is trying to prove it isn’t an essential nutrient with his N1 experiment.
Yeah he will admit he could be wrong, but Garrett has taken it a step further than he has and feels completely convinced it isn't essential.
 

InChristAlone

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It wasn't merely Peat, though. Peat mentions a group of researchers at a university in Texas (I think), and they actually did experiments showing EFA deficiency is solved by correcting new deficiencies created by the higher metabolism. Once again, it's not a perfect parallel.
Then why is that study not recognized? Even Chris Masterjohn believes in EFA's. Garrett has said DHA should fit into the receptors for vitamin A better actually (or something like that, but he doesn't advise taking fish oils).
 

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He is correct in the diplomatic, always take the middle road way. What I have come to understand overtime is that people who talk about taking the middle road, and say things like "moderation in all things" are basically saying they are okay with the status quo. If I could choose a slogan for people who are comfortable and don't want to be bothered, it would be "moderation in all things." There is no real wisdom there, only a preference for how things are. Which is fine, but not actual help. They will not be good at getting you out of trouble, or correctly diagnosing a problem. So if you are doing fine and don't want to change, then it is a great motto.
This is not a matter of comforming people to the norm, at least it hasn't been for me. There's is nothing sophisticated in a therapeutic approach to an essential nutrient that involves its depletion, it should be out of question unless it's an emergency because it will eventually lead to problems.

Garrett is a lunatic. He has 3 separate posts dedicated to claim that poison A is not only inessential, but toxic. I wonder how he manages to remain licensed as practitioner. Also, a respectable one can never transmit a panic sensation to a patient even if the situation is critical, he has got to keep composed at all times. What he chooses instead is to install unnecessary fear and attempt to impose his imbecility on others.
 

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Oh boy, Kruse??

Yeah I generally just try to keep it at 4 grams a day with some cheat meals here and there.

Yes, I actually like to read opposing arguments even to viewpoints I feel are correct, which either tends to make me change my mind or entrench my viewpoints further. Sometimes I still get hardened by my opinions, but I still like to entertain other ideas as much as possible.

I actually got briefly misled by JK, started eating fish, and then felt real BAD. That's when I decided to go full on PUFA depletion :P
 

Makrosky

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This is not a matter of comforming people to the norm, at least it hasn't been for me. There's is nothing sophisticated in a therapeutic approach to an essential nutrient that involves its depletion, it should be out of question unless it's an emergency because it will eventually lead to problems.

Garrett is a lunatic. He has 3 separate posts dedicated to claim that poison A is not only inessential, but toxic. I wonder how he manages to remain licensed as practitioner. Also, a respectable one can never transmit a panic sensation to a patient even if the situation is critical, he has got to keep composed at all times. What he chooses instead is to install unnecessary fear and attempt to impose his imbecility on others.
I think there's a big marketing thing to all this also, not strictly Garrett. One has to "differentiate" from others in order to sell a different product. People get bored of the same repeated mantras. It is a kind of addictive behaviour.
 

InChristAlone

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Yes, I actually like to read opposing arguments even to viewpoints I feel are correct, which either tends to make me change my mind or entrench my viewpoints further. Sometimes I still get hardened by my opinions, but I still like to entertain other ideas as much as possible.

I actually got briefly misled by JK, started eating fish, and then felt real BAD. That's when I decided to go full on PUFA depletion :P
Haha that's good confirmation! I can't even imagine going back to full on PUFA fest, I tolerate some junk food every once in a while, but if I do it everyday it's crazy how much worse my digestion gets. Fish doesn't seem all that bad though, could you have been reacting to histamine?
 

Makrosky

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Haha that's good confirmation! I can't even imagine going back to full on PUFA fest, I tolerate some junk food every once in a while, but if I do it everyday it's crazy how much worse my digestion gets. Fish doesn't seem all that bad though, could you have been reacting to histamine?
This is like everything. If you are used to Paleo you eat some grains which youbtolerated well before and... bam, problems. The body adapts. That is not a sign what you are eating is intrinsically bad. Unless of course by PUFA fest you mean papa johns pizza and half a kilo of deep friend KFC nuggets.
 

Cirion

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Haha that's good confirmation! I can't even imagine going back to full on PUFA fest, I tolerate some junk food every once in a while, but if I do it everyday it's crazy how much worse my digestion gets. Fish doesn't seem all that bad though, could you have been reacting to histamine?

Doesn't Ray speak favorably towards lean white fish? Fatty fish are just chock full of PUFA that even one or two servings can blow you up far beyond your PUFA targets.

I was eating a bunch during Christmas break with the family and needing to sleep 12-16 hr a day. That stuff seriously messed me up.
 

Makrosky

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For instance I could perfectly eat legumes before Peating without any problem. I do it now and I am gonna get a lot of gas.
 

Amazoniac

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I think there's a big marketing thing to all this also, not strictly Garrett. One has to "differentiate" from others in order to sell a different product. People get bored of the same repeated mantras. It is a kind of addictive behaviour.
My crystal ball told me that they're tempted to produce a movie about it.

Do you have any idea how humans obtained enough vit K throughout evolution without exposing themselves to substantial amounts of poison A? Is it fine in leafy greens and dairy fat because they have protective factors in them? Why aren't they included in the menu, then? Monsanto? For sure it will be featured in the documentary.
 
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InChristAlone

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Yeah the body gets used to what you eat. So eating something harder to digest is going to throw it for a loop. My issue is too much fiber. PUFA just messes up my gallbladder. I can eat 5 ounces of haagen dazs and be fine (thats a lot of fat!) but if I eat a bag of doritos I'm going to feel real bad.
 
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Then why is that study not recognized? Even Chris Masterjohn believes in EFA's. Garrett has said DHA should fit into the receptors for vitamin A better actually (or something like that, but he doesn't advise taking fish oils).

Business interests.

I'm not sure why CMJ accepts the EFA theory, since he is big on correcting nutrient deficiencies. He just did all that research on B2, so perhaps as he goes through the rest of the B vitamins he might be less sold on it. Maybe he will realize that B vitamin deficiencies present in the skin and mucous and oh hey would you look at that, that sounds like EFA deficiency.

Some of the things he brings up from time to time make me believe he is familiar with some of Peat's work. Perhaps he publicly touts the EFA theory in order to not rock the boat. As we noted in this thread, he makes a big effort to remain diplomatic. If there is a balanced health guru, it is Chris. He certainly is in favor of minimizing PUFA in excess, and has been for several years.
 

Makrosky

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My crystal ball told me that they're tempted to produce a movie about it.

Do you have any idea how humans obtained enough vit K throughout evolution without exposing themselves to substantial amounts of poison A? Is it fine in leafy greens and dairy fat because they have protective factors in them? Why aren't they included in the menu, then? Monsanto? For sure it will be featured in the documentary.
I have no idea but I am sure they will torture the pubmed studies to find a way to prove it. Something like waterboarding pdfs until they say what you want to hear.
 

InChristAlone

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My crystal ball told me that they're tempted to produce a movie about it.

Do you have any idea how humans obtained enough vit K throughout evolution without exposing themselves to substantial amounts of poison A? Is it fine in leafy greens and dairy fat because they have protective factors in them? Why aren't they included in the menu, then? Monsanto? For sure it will be featured in the documentary.
We do not need much vitamin K1 a day. The body aggressively recycles it because it is too damn important to wait on the human eating it. My vitamin K at least K1 is super low everyday. I have zero bruising or bleeding issues. I get plenty of K2 though.
 

Amazoniac

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I have no idea but I am sure they will torture the pubmed studies to find a way to prove it. Something like waterboarding pdfs until they say what you want to hear.
That must be the main reason why conclusions are found in abstracts.

Unrelated, check this out:
- Corpus luteum - Wikipedia
We do not need much vitamin K1 a day. The body aggressively recycles it because it is too damn important to wait on the human eating it. My vitamin K at least K1 is super low everyday. I have zero bruising or bleeding issues. I get plenty of K2 though.
But people tend to respond well to vit K supplements, so if more wasn't beneficial, this would not occur.

I just brewed it: 100 g of butter provides 2500 IU of poison A and only 30 mcg (or less) of K.
How do you get plenty of K without a lot of poison A relative to it? The only source I can think of is natto.
 
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InChristAlone

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That must be the main reason why conclusions are found in abstracts.

Unrelated, check this out:
- Corpus luteum - Wikipedia

But people tend to respond well to vit K supplements, so if more wasn't beneficial, this would not occur.

I just brewed it: 100 g of butter provides 2500 IU of poison A and only 30 mcg (or less) of K.
How do you get plenty of K without a lot of poison A relative to it? The only source I can think of is natto.
I wouldn't use butter as a sole vitamin K2 source. Beef chuck has a similar amount per 100g. I eat grass-fed beef, some cheese, and about 1 TBS butter a day. Natto is an excellent choice is you like it!
 
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