Glycine, Brands, Dosage

[magnesiumania]

So by now i have some experience with glycine supplementation but im not sure what to gather.

First off i started with Source Naturals capsules 500mg each. They made me feel very off. They really messed me up in ways i will not go into the descriptions of.

Latly decided to try Now foods powdered and i took the recommended dose which is 3 grams. And i felt pretty good and did this for 3 days. Very destressed good feeling.

THEN i tried another low dose of the first brand and i had the same uncomfortable feeling. What's up with this? Is it the dose or the brand. I seem to remember that Stephanie Seneff mentions some glycine supplements actually contain glyphosate, which is scary. Does anyone have experience with Source Naturals or Now Foods?

If both are clean glycine what makes a higher dose work so much better? I just had 5 grams of the Now Foods and i feel relaxed and more clear-minded than before ingestion.

I hope someone can help me make some sense out of it.

 

[Cirion]

Dunno, but I think in general people respond better to gelatin than pure glycine. I have been trying to build up my tolerance to gelatin intake personally. I can't really comment on glycine as I go the gelatin route, but gelatin works well for me for the most part.

 

[Makrosky]

So by now i have some experience with glycine supplementation but im not sure what to gather.

First off i started with Source Naturals capsules 500mg each. They made me feel very off. They really messed me up in ways i will not go into the descriptions of.

Latly decided to try Now foods powdered and i took the recommended dose which is 3 grams. And i felt pretty good and did this for 3 days. Very destressed good feeling.

THEN i tried another low dose of the first brand and i had the same uncomfortable feeling. What's up with this? Is it the dose or the brand. I seem to remember that Stephanie Seneff mentions some glycine supplements actually contain glyphosate, which is scary. Does anyone have experience with Source Naturals or Now Foods?

If both are clean glycine what makes a higher dose work so much better? I just had 5 grams of the Now Foods and i feel relaxed and more clear-minded than before ingestion.

I hope someone can help me make some sense out of it.

There are huge differences on qualities and individual reactions depending on the brand. So what you are reporting is not strange at all. It's like that. It always happens.

For glycine I prefer the "Ajipure" version from Ajinomoto. It is considered one of the purest. But if you have good success with Now and not with Source Naturals, keep the Now and toss the SN one to the trashbin. That's life.

 

[TeaRex14]

Glyphosate, in general, is not something we want to be consuming in any significant amount. But I'm always highly skeptical when someone attributes acute, adverse, side effects from glyphosate contamination. The sad, perhaps scary, reality is its near impossible to avoid all glyphosate contamination in today's world. It's likely the dosage, or other, more concentrated, impurities that caused the issue. I have no experience with either brand you mentioned. Do you know what the added ingredients are in them? This company makes highly pure vitamins and amino acids, might consider giving them a try. Also maybe a higher dose is a bigger trigger for GABA agonist, which will lower stress. Low doses may not have the same effect, for you.

 

[magnesiumania]

There are huge differences on qualities and individual reactions depending on the brand. So what you are reporting is not strange at all. It's like that. It always happens.

For glycine I prefer the "Ajipure" version from Ajinomoto. It is considered one of the purest. But if you have good success with Now and not with Source Naturals, keep the Now and toss the SN one to the trashbin. That's life.

Ok that helps thank. I just feel increasingly awsome from this 5 gram dose....

And ive been reading on reddit and found this:

"there is a thread on Longecity discussing glycine and possibly being neurotoxic is certain situations or doses."

Not sure if i can find the exact thread on Longecity tho.

But maybe its also in the dose. But at least i know what works. 3-5 grams of Now foods.

By the way ive used magnesium glycinate for about a year (on/off) and i never had a problem with it....Does anyone know how much glycine is bound to 150mg magnesium?

 

[magnesiumania]

Glyphosate, in general, is not something we want to be consuming in any significant amount. But I'm always highly skeptical when someone attributes acute, adverse, side effects from glyphosate contamination. The sad, perhaps scary, reality is its near impossible to avoid all glyphosate contamination in today's world. It's likely the dosage, or other, more concentrated, impurities that caused the issue. I have no experience with either brand you mentioned. Do you know what the added ingredients are in them? This company makes highly pure vitamins and amino acids, might consider giving them a try. Also maybe a higher dose is a bigger trigger for GABA agonist, which will lower stress. Low doses may not have the same effect, for you.

All i can say is 5 grams just made me go from very disoriented and stressed out to super calm and focused. And yes kind of a GABA-like feeling (ref phenibut experiences)

By the way, I do have a recent history of high glutamate abnormal NMDA activity (from 2 weeks of glutamine supplementation). It initated anxiety confusion and possibly neurotoxicity/exitotoxicity.

 

[Makrosky]

Ok that helps thank. I just feel increasingly awsome from this 5 gram dose....

And ive been reading on reddit and found this:

"there is a thread on Longecity discussing glycine and possibly being neurotoxic is certain situations or doses."

Not sure if i can find the exact thread on Longecity tho.

But maybe its also in the dose. But at least i know what works. 3-5 grams of Now foods.

By the way ive used magnesium glycinate for about a year (on/off) and i never had a problem with it....Does anyone know how much glycine is bound to 150mg magnesium?

Can you provide a link to the longecity thread ?

About the possile neurotoxicity of glutamine... If it was just 2 weeks I wouldn't be worried at all. Take things that make you stay calm and help metabolism and it will fix on its own, if it indeed is what caused the problem.

 

[TeaRex14]

All i can say is 5 grams just made me go from very disoriented and stressed out to super calm and focused. And yes kind of a GABA-like feeling (ref phenibut experiences)

By the way, I do have a recent history of high glutamate abnormal NMDA activity (from 2 weeks of glutamine supplementation). It initated anxiety confusion and possibly neurotoxicity/exitotoxicity.

I would continue to do what works then, 5 grams isn't a dangerous dose by any means.

 

[magnesiumania]

So i found this on Longecity:


Scenario for Glycine neurotoxicity:

• Ca++ influx into neurons is controlled by "NMDA receptors", cell potential, and Mg+ ions.
• NMDA receptors have two activation points which must both be activated
• One part of NMDA is activated by glutamate and the other is normally activated by D-serene. Glycine can substitute for D-serine.
• D-serene is provided by neighboring astrocytes and is usually present. Glycine is not normally present in high enough concentration.
• Although D-serene is usually present, it surely must have some control function.
• The control function of D-serene is overridden when extra glycine is present.
• Too much Ca++ influx can damage the neuron

More Detail:

• Glutamate reaches the NMDA receptor a little at a time with each firing of the neuron. Eventually enough accumulates to activate the NMDA
• When both sides of the NMDA receptor are activated, it opens access to the Ca++ channel in the neuron membrane
• The Ca++ channel is normally blocked by a large Mg++ ion held in place by the neuron's cell potential
• When the neuron cell potential is fully discharged, after a short delay the Mg++ ion drifts out of the way
• As the neuron starts to recharge, Ca++ rushes in before the pore is blocked again

 

[Makrosky]

All i can say is 5 grams just made me go from very disoriented and stressed out to super calm and focused. And yes kind of a GABA-like feeling (ref phenibut experiences)

By the way, I do have a recent history of high glutamate abnormal NMDA activity (from 2 weeks of glutamine supplementation). It initated anxiety confusion and possibly neurotoxicity/exitotoxicity.

If you stop taking glycine and you see something like a increased anxiety don't be afraid. To some people (including myself) it gives a mild rebound effect. It lasts only one day.

Maybe 5 days on 2 days off would be a good protocol to start experimenting and knowing how the substance works.

I also think 5g is safe.

 

[Cirion]

I believe RP says that upwards of 30g of glycine can be reasonable depending on current health needs. Not saying take 30g necessarily, just saying what he said.

 

[magnesiumania]

Glyphosate, in general, is not something we want to be consuming in any significant amount. But I'm always highly skeptical when someone attributes acute, adverse, side effects from glyphosate contamination. The sad, perhaps scary, reality is its near impossible to avoid all glyphosate contamination in today's world. It's likely the dosage, or other, more concentrated, impurities that caused the issue. I have no experience with either brand you mentioned. Do you know what the added ingredients are in them? This company makes highly pure vitamins and amino acids, might consider giving them a try. Also maybe a higher dose is a bigger trigger for GABA agonist, which will lower stress. Low doses may not have the same effect, for you.

Doesent agonism mean you produce less GABA, im confused.

 

[TeaRex14]

Doesent agonism mean you produce less GABA, im confused.

It's the opposite, antagonism means it will produce less. Agonist means it encourages more production.

 

[Makrosky]

I believe RP says that upwards of 30g of glycine can be reasonable depending on current health needs. Not saying take 30g necessarily, just saying what he said.

I guess he said from gelatin ?

30g of pure isolated glycine is A LOT.

 

[Cirion]

I guess he said from gelatin ?

30g of pure isolated glycine is A LOT.

Ray Peat:

In some of the older studies, therapeutic results improved when the daily gelatin was increased. Since 30 grams of glycine was commonly used for treating muscular dystrophy and myasthenia gravis, a daily intake of 100 grams of gelatin wouldn't seem unreasonable, and some people find that quantities in that range help to decrease fatigue. For a growing child, though, such a large amount of refined gelatin would tend to displace other important foods. The National Academy of Sciences recently reviewed the requirements for working adults (male and female soldiers, in particular), and suggested that 100 grams of balanced protein was needed for efficient work. For adults, a large part of that could be in the form of gelatin.

Gelatin, stress, longevity

 

[magnesiumania]

I believe RP says that upwards of 30g of glycine can be reasonable depending on current health needs. Not saying take 30g necessarily, just saying what he said.

Ok thanks for the perspective. Its just really hard to know what you need so better go slowly with the experimentation.

 

[Cirion]

I personally am definitely getting an appreciation for high dose gelatin/glycine. I am at 36 gram gelatin a day, trying to adjust to 72 gram a day (close to RP's upper recommendation). It's such a game changer IMO. Tryptophan and other negative amino acid's are a HUGE problem, I've finally come to realize subjectively by how I feel when I have gelatin/BCAA's vs. when I don't. It's night and day.

 

[magnesiumania]

I personally am definitely getting an appreciation for high dose gelatin/glycine. I am at 36 gram gelatin a day, trying to adjust to 72 gram a day (close to RP's upper recommendation). It's such a game changer IMO. Tryptophan and other negative amino acid's are a HUGE problem, I've finally come to realize subjectively by how I feel when I have gelatin/BCAA's vs. when I don't. It's night and day.

Sounds good. I did 3 days of 3-7 grams and i felt better for everyday. Actually i felt pretty good when i just had a couple of days off also. But today was the most positive experience. The music just sounds super sweet hah!

However im always left with the concern that it will throw off some balance over time.

Theres this common idea that glutamate dominant people often make glycine excitatory but im not familar with any explaination (which i feel is necessary for this to create any weight)

I WAS very glutamate dominant when i supplemented glutamine 2 months ago but ive normalized the glutamine>glutamate>GABA pathways since then.

Also glycine inhibit the neuron by letting chloride in and excite it by letting chloride out. Ive been doing mineral drops high in chloride and think this may help balance the pathways+excitatory/inhibittory-balance.

 

[Cirion]

However im always left with the concern that it will throw off some balance over time.

I don't think it will as long as you still have other proteins in your diet and don't exceed the 100 gram (Haidut found out going too high results in some negative effects like nausea). The common quoted # is about 30% of protein from gelatin. But going through that document, I can't find this 30% number so not sure where this quote comes from. Personally, I feel that you could go as high as 50% from gelatin as long as that doesn't result in exceeding 100 gram. But don't quote me on that.

30% feels like the upper safe limit for virtually anyone based upon experiences from Haidut and others. Haidut used about 30% during his 1500+T experiment. That's still probably plenty high. For me I frequently have 200+ gram of protein a day so even if I bump up to 72 gram gelatin, that's still roughly at around the 30% mark.

Just make sure not to confuse gelatin with glycine. I am not responsible for anyone taking 70 gram of glycine and their resulting ER visit bill. lol

 

[magnesiumania]

I also found this about glycine and endotoxin:

"Across animal and human studies, glycine has many benefits. In animals, it protects against the metabolic dysfunction caused by obesogenic diets. In diabetes, it protects many organs. It protects the liver, the kidneys, the eyes, the brain, et cetera. It has anti-inflammatory effects that might protect against the harmful effects of endotoxin. So for gut dysbiosis or high-fat diets that promote the absorption of endotoxin from the gut, glycine may protect against that."