Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[JoeKool]

Ha i replied to your dm before seeing this.

Yes, it's of my opinion blood levels of hormones don't paint the picture as pfs patients usually have normal dht, for example. A better test is for

3 Alpha Androstenediol glucuronide

Still, it's more then dht as it includes issues with allopreg, gaba & dopamine receptors, etc. All of which get rebalanced via a long term hcg cycle.

I'm sharing what worked for me, hoping others can benefit and feel relief, leaving pfs behind

 

[D Man]

Sorry If I'm missing the obvious here but is HCG indefinite?

@JoeKool - does the treatment only work as long as your using or is this a cycle thing?

I am 33 and at the moment trying anything that doesn't require prolonged use of synthetic (or otherwise) substances

THanks fr sharing your experience

 

[Fidelio]

Good to see this is finally becoming popular, for reference it was olive who discovered this method, shame he disappeared.

 

[m_c]

@D Man - Joey told me in a DM that after the cycle is complete, the benefits stay. So you apparently don't have to keep taking HCG.

 

[JoeKool]

Oh yes. You don't have to take it forever, you do it 6 months then off. Avoid anything hormonal while on it and after the cycle. Let the body find stasis and use its own hormones to see your recovery.

 

[D Man]

Oh yes. You don't have to take it forever, you do it 6 months then off. Avoid anything hormonal while on it and after the cycle. Let the body find stasis and use its own hormones to see your recovery.

Thanks for this - thanks again for sharing your experience

The thought of TRT at 33 doesn't lie well with me so its a last resort

I took FIN for a period of nearly two years - I hadn't even discovered Peat back then and honestly it was the worst decision I ever made.

I will get back to my pre FIN self one way or another - the feeling of invincibility in your twenties is something all men should feel all the way to the day we die.

 

[mts29]

After nearly 4 years of suffering, I have finally & fully recovered from Post Finasteride Syndrome

All my symptoms have subsided and improved with this method which takes a while but I am fully functional

It's H.C.G (HCG) dosed at 250IU Monday, Wednesday and Friday only. I did this for 6 months straight but at the 10th week or so, the improvements were weekly.

That is 250IU, not a typo... so you'll mix your 5000iu HCG with 5CC water and take 1/4 CC intramuscular three times a week using an insulin needle.

Penile shrinkage reversed and might actually be fuller than pre PFS. I have erections from stimulation, random & morning wood again. As well as nocturnal from different tests I performed. I had an injury due to weak penile tissue at the week of my crash in Oct of 2016 and that's filled out too. I can feel the slight difference during an erection but it's negligible and improving even while off HCG.

Overall testicular size is obviously returned with HCG treatment. The scrotal tightening that I used to experience is gone too. My genitals hang properly, are warm and have proper color. This area was the most recovery and reversal of symptoms.

The dosage needs to be low and steady, do not increase or add a day thinking more is better. Long term HCG treatment at high dosages can cause issues. (Read up on desensitization of Leydig Cells but don't get nervous at this plan)

LH stimulation from HCG also improves all downstream steroid production like progesterone which then helps neurosteroids. My depression and social withdrawal has diminished as well.

Here are two interesting studies but understand the conditions of these patients were not PFS but helps with my research

Enhanced stimulation of 5 alpha-reductase activity in cultured Leydig cell precursors by human chorionic gonadotropin. - PubMed - NCBI

Penile Growth in Response to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) Treatment in Patients with Idiopathic Hypogonadotrophic Hypogonadism


I was described this method by a great group I stumbled upon who showed me this video from Poland of a doctor's clinical work:




My brain fog and memory have also recovered, and the doctor from the video (as well as my previous experience with HCG) shows this continues well after treatment stops.

I also used only:

Vitamin D3 and Vitamin A with a fatty meal daily.

Magnesium Taurate and Glycine before bed

These are support supplements, are OTC and inexpensive so I think it's required. Do not ADD anything else. No DHEA, herbs, prohoromones, nothing else... HCG is LH stimulation and lets the body do the work.

I have one friend who's trying the HCG treatment and has seen the most improvements of all previous attempts at recovery. We both now respond to supplements like pre-pfs, such as RANDRO & herbs (I highly suggest you don't mix diff supps in with this protocol)

I've been off everything except the vitamins & amino listed above so I'm posting this to get the recovery out to anyone who wants to try.

Please post this anywhere and everywhere to help ppl with this debilitating syndrome. I have recovered and those that know me know my history. I've only ever wanted to be healthy again & help my fellow brothers. I have no sources of HCG & won't link to any.

I will describe how to mix & inject safely so people who are concerned can rest easy, there's no pain with insulin needles & recovery is worth overcoming the fear.

I have another friend ready to start and I'm excited for his recovery next.

I don't know how this falls in with 'peating' but this was one of the original forums I landed on during my crash so I just want anyone and everyone to see this to help anyone. As you know I moved to another forum for research but.. well, that's for another post if necessary...

I deeply appreciate anyone who's chatted with me here and there... and I promise you'll feel results using this method. Get to a doctor who'll listen and work with you.

Joe,

I am very interested in doing something like this but I want to take proper precautions. Do you recommend talking to like a functional medicine doctor about this? I feel like general physician's would just look at you crazy if you talked to them about this. Atleast the ones that I have visited I was only on fin for about 3 months orally then stopped and then started doing it topically another 3 months down the road for about a year and I am struggling still dealing with symptoms currently. Since then I have stopped all versions of fin and look to feel back to my original self 3 years ago.

 

[m_c]

The duration of finasteride dosage is irrelevant to whether you'll develop long term side effects (or the seriousness of those side effects).

People can get ****88 up after a single pill. For some it can take years until it happens. And everything in between.

Most people recover after a month up to a year without intervention. If you've been sick for more than a few years, you might consider something more intense.

 

[JoeKool]

@mts29 i believe there are specific endocrinologist or a hormone replacement clinic that would be the best bet if you want formal guidance. I know of a Dr Gordon who had a pfs treatment which is hcg like mine as well.

Of course, a doc is only a profession like any other, so if you can't find one that's willing to work with you, I've described the steps. Idk how you feel doing it yourself but it's very easy

 

[LukeL]

@mts29 i believe there are specific endocrinologist or a hormone replacement clinic that would be the best bet if you want formal guidance. I know of a Dr Gordon who had a pfs treatment which is hcg like mine as well.
Of course, a doc is only a profession like any other, so if you can't find one that's willing to work with you, I've described the steps. Idk how you feel doing it yourself but it's very easy

Who is Dr. Gordon? The Doc that’s been on Rogan’s podcast?

 

[D Man]

A

The duration of finasteride dosage is irrelevant to whether you'll develop long term side effects (or the seriousness of those side effects).

People can get ****88 up after a single pill. For some it can take years until it happens. And everything in between.

Most people recover after a month up to a year without intervention. If you've been sick for more than a few years, you might consider something more intense.

it is one powerful piece of medication and I only have one regret In life and that is taking it - for nearly a year.

I'm off it 3 years now and getting better but I think @joekools findings might be the final thing that I need to put this sh1t to an end and going back to feeling invincible like I did in my 20s

Ray described taking fin as an "insane decision" on a recent podcast with Danny and co

The part that really bugs me is that a well known doctor here in Ireland prescribed the medication without so much as a blood test. If I ever met that guy again I would punch him straight between the eyes and tell him that what he's doing is reckless and unethical.

For anyone that sees this post one a couple of things that really helped me were the following:

1. lifting heavy weights and other objects -doesnt matter what it is just lift it, squat it, push it pull it - basically get all the muscles in your body firing on all cylinders
2. vitamin D via sun exposure
3. whey protein (organic if possible)
4 vitamin k2
5. good bowel movements via raw carrot, fresh fruits etc
6. eggs in the diet periodically
7. nose breathing -stop hyperventially especially if you play sport like I do

 

[JoeKool]

Who is Dr. Gordon? The Doc that’s been on Rogan’s podcast?

Yes, exactly him. He had a sign up on his site for treatment.

@D Man good luck and thank you for the list of things that helped. I might increase my carrot intake as i learn more of the benefits

 

[JoeKool]

@MyUsernameHere check out my recovery. It should help

 

[MyUsernameHere]

@MyUsernameHere check out my recovery. It should help

Wow thank you! I just saw this thread on the top list read through it then saw you actually tagged me as well.

My last Fin pill was in 2016, since then, I have not been the same. All the symptoms, you name them, I have them - brain fog, no motivation, anhedonia, social anxiety, penile numbness, shrinkage, discoloration, sometimes flat out ED. Worst of all is probably the void in your mind, how you can literally feel parts of your brain are no longer working. I'm amazed that I can even hold down an IT job.

It took me 2 years to realize I had PFS, I thought it was thyroid related (even though that's reasonably under control now). Tried many supplements and herbs since then, tribulus and sorghum helped somewhat for the physical symptoms, but the mental symptoms just don't leave me.

I will read through all this info thoroughly some more and then make a plan. If anyone has any verified, reliable sources for the required substances and is allowed to share, please PM me.

Thank you for this thread and everyone who is participating, never stabbed myself with a needle in my life but at this point I will do whatever it takes.

 

[Charger]

@MyUsernameHere Have you had any bloodwork done? Total Test, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, SHBG, etc?

I too had PFS and debilitating mental symptoms, surprised I didn't lose my job as well. HCG is definitely worth a shot, I felt relief on it, though it was highly estrogenic for me. I also experienced relief with Nolvadex for a short period, Proviron as well. Anything that raises DHT, lowers estrogen, raises T, lowers SHBG is worth trying out and seeing how you feel.

Some things I'd recommend that helped and may bring you relief:

5a-DHP, Glycine, Agmatine, Pregnenolone
5a-dhp helped with my terrible anhedonia, insomnia, and anxiety I had following Fin use, you can get it from IdeaLabs. Finasteride is known to deplete Allopregnanolone and this supplement should help you increase it which may provide relief to brain fog, depression, or insomnia. Glycine, Agmatine, and Pregnenolone can also help increase ALLO.

Huperzine-A, Uridine, Bacopa Monnieri, Phosphatidylserine, Alpha-GPC, Caffeine
These helped with focus, motivation, and memory issues from Fin. One thing to note, is that I didn't feel well pairing Hup-A and Alpha-GPC together, maybe too much choline? So I recommend picking one or the other depending on which one you like. I personally tend to stick with Huperzine. These should help with boosting dopamine, using these supplements has honestly given me better focus and information retention than I had pre-finasteride.

Proviron, Boron, Creatine, Butea Superba, Tribulus, Tongkat Ali
These should help with raising DHT and lowering SHBG. The one thing that stood out from my own bloodwork following Finasteride use was elevated SHBG. Both Proviron and Boron have been shown to reduce SHBG, freeing up more bioavailable testosterone. DHT helps keep Estrogen and SHBG in check, if you take something that lowers DHT (like fin), the logical result is that Estrogen and SHBG will spike and this can result in low libido, brain fog, etc. Your Total Testosterone levels can be within the reference range, but if too much of it is bound up by SHBG, you can experience low T symptoms.

I'd also recommend reading these two articles on PFS that I found helpful, one written by @Hans which can be found here. And another by Derek (MPMD) can be found here.

I know while you're in the thick of PFS, it can feel hopeless. I think @JoeKool would agree that PFS is largely a state of low/imbalanced hormones and that is something that can be corrected one way or another. A lot of people who are suppressed or shutdown from steroid use experience similar symptoms. Good luck.

 

[JoeKool]

Beautiful support from one brother to another @Sygnal

Great write up and info.

thank you

 

[MyUsernameHere]

@MyUsernameHere Have you had any bloodwork done? Total Test, Free T, DHT, Estradiol, SHBG, etc?

Yes, multiple times, I've had testosterone as low as 400, as high as 1200, estradiol 6x over range and undetectable the last time I measured it. My hormones are a total shitbox and they're all over the place. I have low-normal DHT, and get gyno symptoms from even looking at anything estrogenic basically.

5a-DHP, Glycine, Agmatine, Pregnenolone
5a-dhp helped with my terrible anhedonia, insomnia, and anxiety I had following Fin use, you can get it from IdeaLabs. Finasteride is known to deplete Allopregnanolone and this supplement should help you increase it which may provide relief to brain fog, depression, or insomnia. Glycine, Agmatine, and Pregnenolone can also help increase ALLO.

5a-DHP and Glycine doesn't seem to do much. Pregnenolone has maybe 10% of the effect on me that it had pre-Fin.

Huperzine-A, Uridine, Bacopa Monnieri, Phosphatidylserine, Alpha-GPC, Caffeine
These helped with focus, motivation, and memory issues from Fin. One thing to note, is that I didn't feel well pairing Hup-A and Alpha-GPC together, maybe too much choline? So I recommend picking one or the other depending on which one you like. I personally tend to stick with Huperzine. These should help with boosting dopamine, using these supplements has honestly given me better focus and information retention than I had pre-finasteride.

I tried phosphatidylserine for its supposed 5AR boosting properties (even the Sharp-PS marine kind which was used in the studies, nothing. Caffeine can help some sure.

Proviron, Boron, Creatine, Butea Superba, Tribulus, Tongkat Ali
These should help with raising DHT and lowering SHBG. The one thing that stood out from my own bloodwork following Finasteride use was elevated SHBG. Both Proviron and Boron have been shown to reduce SHBG, freeing up more bioavailable testosterone. DHT helps keep Estrogen and SHBG in check, if you take something that lowers DHT (like fin), the logical result is that Estrogen and SHBG will spike and this can result in low libido, brain fog, etc. Your Total Testosterone levels can be within the reference range, but if too much of it is bound up by SHBG, you can experience low T symptoms.

I've been taking tribulus on-off for a year because I perceive some benefit but the returns have been diminishing now. I'm definitely better after taking hundreds of pills of it than before but it's still so far from normal. Creatine usually boosts my sexual function at the cost of even worse brain fog and mental acuity (I believe this is a problem of serum androgens and the negative feedback regulation on the 5-AR in the brain). Butea Superba does nothing for me.

I'd also recommend reading these two articles on PFS that I found helpful, one written by @Hans which can be found here. And another by Derek (MPMD) can be found here.

I know while you're in the thick of PFS, it can feel hopeless. I think @JoeKool would agree that PFS is largely a state of low/imbalanced hormones and that is something that can be corrected one way or another. A lot of people who are suppressed or shutdown from steroid use experience similar symptoms. Good luck.

I'll have a look at those. To me it seems like a receptor problem, in all honesty. Receptors + severely suppressed 5-alpha reductase enzyme in TISSUES (especially in the brain) - even though the values can look normal in the blood. Because my hormones have all been normal on a blood test at some point and it didn't seem to make much difference compared to when they were worse.

I tried a lot of supplements already. Can't name one single thing that really made much of an impact on the worst problem and that is brain fog. I'm just about crazy enough at this point to try this HCG protocol.

 

[Charger]

I also have naturally low DHT, even before Fin (32 ng/dL). And had mild gyno from puberty, so I assume that I'm a high aromatizer.

You took a prescription drug that altered your hormonal profile, just because it hasn't been solved by OTC supplements doesn't mean you should start convincing yourself you have broken 5AR or receptors have been silenced or any of the other stuff you've probably seen thrown around by pessimists on PropeciaHelp. Whether it's HCG, Proviron, Nolva/Clomid or all of the above, you'll likely need something just as strong as Fin to normalize your hormones/neurosteroids.

For brain fog, I honestly think it's between Huperzine-A and Uridine that helped the most--Diamant (Adamantane) may also help. I felt extremely driven and motivated while using Nolva, but since it is a SERM, it's estrogen blocking effects leads to me being emotionally blunted. But I feel using stuff like that, even just a week or two at a time helped push my hormones to a better place.

Brain fog in my experience tends to be, if not an estrogen balance issue, then a dopamine issue. Hans posted an article on raising dopamine, with a list of supplements at the bottom that may help, which is where I learned of Hup-A and Uridine. I didn't notice a significant benefit from Phosphatidylserine either, but I figured I'd throw it in there since others have experienced benefits from it.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Hey @JoeKool I have a question.

As I understand you take a 5000 IU vial of HCG and reconstitute in 5 ml of BAC water and use that for 60 days. Most manufacturers of BAC water give it an expiry date of 28 days once opened. You're not worried about using the same water for longer than that?

Wouldn't it be safer to use 2000 IU HCG ampule and reconstitute in 2 ml every 16 days.
Not to mention if you can only use 5 mL of a 30 mL vial before it expires you're essentially throwing out the other 25 mL.

WATERMED makes a pack of 10 x 1 mL vials of BAC water. Reconstituting smaller batches more frequently would seem safer and less wasteful.

 

[JoeKool]

Hey @MyUsernameHere no no, the bac water isn’t necessarily opened, the 30ml vial of bac water has the rubber sterile stopper so you’re still disinfecting the top and drawing the needed amount out, the remaining 25ml doesn’t stay exposed to air if that’s what your thinking.

You can still refrigerate everything if you want to, even the bac water after you draw the first MLs. I personally have done this and didn’t even know they claimed 28 days after opening but, again, that’s probably due to the concern that the alcohol would evaporate if wide open but it’s not.

The hcg mixture in the vial has to be kept in the fridge (you’ll want a 10ml empty sterile vial) but even that’s sealed until each use. Then it’s only 45 days at 750iu week.