Low Toxin Logs Feeling really anxious

[PeterSN]

So I've been doing this low vitamin A low copper diet now strictly for a week or two, and I was having a lot of headaches, really bad aching all over my body, now today the aching is gone, but I'm feeling really really anxious, like I'm going to have a panic attack, I can't breath properly, my heart is skipping beats and I justed feel so wired, I can't even stop pacing around, it's so hard for me to sit still.

 

[Peater]

I am familiar with this too. I can't really tell you what worked because nothing seemed to touch it at the time. I did start having a couple of egg yolks with my beef and beans/rice, just added them at the end of cooking.

There are two schools of thought - they slow down detox, they speed up detox. Either option is fine with me if they stop that feeling. There is the choline in them as well, but opinions are divided and I am not knowledgeable enough to comment either way.

 

[mosaic01]

So I've been doing this low vitamin A low copper diet now strictly for a week or two, and I was having a lot of headaches, really bad aching all over my body, now today the aching is gone, but I'm feeling really really anxious, like I'm going to have a panic attack, I can't breath properly, my heart is skipping beats and I justed feel so wired, I can't even stop pacing around, it's so hard for me to sit still.

It does sound like copper problems, these can be extremely annoying. You should maybe see a doc due to the skipping beats issue, maybe you changed too many things too quickly, or have mineral imbalances due to not enough potassium, magnesium, salt.

Heart skipping beats can also be due to supplemented potassium and can be very dangerous in that case.

It's almost impossible to give advice on this without knowing a lot about you and your context.

So it comes down to you getting a feeling for your own body, experimenting with certain foods (egg yolks, beans, oats, vegetables, etc.), supplements (zinc, molybdenum, niacin), etc., and trusting the process and your own body.

I need egg yolks to help my liver deal with copper, for some reason.

 

[youngsinatra]

Low calcium did this to me.

 

[Peater]

I think molybdenum takes some getting used to - @charlie kindly talked me through his experiences with it - i was supplementing however some beans are naturally higher in it.

I'm still experimenting as best as I can with copper as although over the years I have eaten liver etc etc I have also taken taurine, eaten red meat, taken estrogen lowering substances etc. I don't know if it should be run to 0. I have no interest in supplementing it though.

At some point I'll get a HTMA, it's something you could consider.

 

[mosaic01]

Low calcium did this to me.

I don't know why, but whenever I don't have milk for 1-2 weeks, I start to have an extreme appetite. I can eat non-stop, easily 3000-4000 calories. Calcium-rich water does not change this.

Once I have a single glass of milk, my appetite goes down and I only eat 2000-3000 calories.

I also crave milk a lot and it feels like I am addicted to it. When I was on a Peat-inspired diet, dairy was a main part of my diet, and I craved 1-2 liters of milk per day. Once I start having as much milk as I like, my appetite for most other foods is diminished and I basically only crave dairy. My cravings for dairy are similar to my cravings for liverwurst, carrots and baked goods with milk/butter/eggs.

So I can see how moving away from a milk-heavy diet can cause some issues, temporarily while the body adapts.

Before moving to a starch based low toxin diet (no chocolate, no dairy, no sugar, for example), I had to get up at night and drink a liter of milk and eat a bar of chocolate just to get back to sleep and not get blood sugar issues. Within 1-2 weeks of changing my diet, I started to be able to sleep through the night without any issues.

 

[Peater]

Low calcium did this to me.

Did you supplement or anything? I'm quite happy without dairy but the calcium issue still gnaws at me.

 

[Kyle970]

When this is going down, I usually reach for binders, eat veg/fiber, hot baths, walking, and going sit by creek/river and practice deep breathing.

 

[youngsinatra]

Did you supplement or anything? I'm quite happy without dairy but the calcium issue still gnaws at me.

I drink Gerolsteiner personally, but I know you have your concerns with it. I would opt for calcium hydroxyapatite.

 

[Peater]

I drink Gerolsteiner personally, but I know you have your concerns with it. I would opt for calcium hydroxyapatite.

Not me! I think you're the second person to mention hydroxyapatite to me though, I will look into it.

 

[youngsinatra]

Not me! I think you're the second person to mention hydroxyapatite to me though, I will look into it.

Ah sorry, I thought someone else was posting.

 

[DanDare]

Did you supplement or anything? I'm quite happy without dairy but the calcium issue still gnaws at me.

Here is my anecdote if it helps. I have mentioned before. I was drinking about 2 litres of milk a day for a year, and my toilet was building up extraordinary amounts of limescale - this did not happen before and has not happened since. I live in a hard water area, more than 300mg of calcium/magnesium per litre, and I use the water as is for cooking (and rice uses a lot) and drinking. So for me milk was making me eliminate large amounts of calcium. I can't see this being a good thing if the body was working hard to eliminate it.

 

[mosaic01]

my heart is skipping beats

I read up on it and this can actually be a copper detox/toxicity symptom.

https://drcarlaatkinson.com/signs-symptoms-causes-of-copper-toxicity-and-how-to-detox-from-it/

 

[Peater]

Here is my anecdote if it helps. I have mentioned before. I was drinking about 2 litres of milk a day for a year, and my toilet was building up extraordinary amounts of limescale - this did not happen before and has not happened since. I live in a hard water area, more than 300mg of calcium/magnesium per litre, and I use the water as is for cooking (and rice uses a lot) and drinking. So for me milk was making me eliminate large amounts of calcium. I can't see this being a good thing if the body was working hard to eliminate it.

That is indeed interesting thanks. Would you have been getting sufficient vit K? That's the only thing I can think of correlated with calcium 'dumping' (Just my own thoughts, nothing official)

 

[lilrawhoney]

I don't know why, but whenever I don't have milk for 1-2 weeks, I start to have an extreme appetite. I can eat non-stop, easily 3000-4000 calories. Calcium-rich water does not change this.

Once I have a single glass of milk, my appetite goes down and I only eat 2000-3000 calories.

I also crave milk a lot and it feels like I am addicted to it. When I was on a Peat-inspired diet, dairy was a main part of my diet, and I craved 1-2 liters of milk per day. Once I start having as much milk as I like, my appetite for most other foods is diminished and I basically only crave dairy. My cravings for dairy are similar to my cravings for liverwurst, carrots and baked goods with milk/butter/eggs.

So I can see how moving away from a milk-heavy diet can cause some issues, temporarily while the body adapts.

Before moving to a starch based low toxin diet (no chocolate, no dairy, no sugar, for example), I had to get up at night and drink a liter of milk and eat a bar of chocolate just to get back to sleep and not get blood sugar issues. Within 1-2 weeks of changing my diet, I started to be able to sleep through the night without any issues.

My 2 year old used to drink a lot of raw milk, but after awhile he refused to eat anything and would only drink milk. I finally cut him off dairy and he went back to eating again.

The biggest change I’ve noticed so far on a low toxin diet is that my blood sugar is stable for the first time in a very long time. I used to have to eat constantly so I wouldn’t have severe blood sugar drops.

 

[lilrawhoney]

Here is my anecdote if it helps. I have mentioned before. I was drinking about 2 litres of milk a day for a year, and my toilet was building up extraordinary amounts of limescale - this did not happen before and has not happened since. I live in a hard water area, more than 300mg of calcium/magnesium per litre, and I use the water as is for cooking (and rice uses a lot) and drinking. So for me milk was making me eliminate large amounts of calcium. I can't see this being a good thing if the body was working hard to eliminate it.

I had the exact same experience with the toilet. I think I read where you posted this on another thread and finally made the connection. I thought the water had changed in my area or something, because I was having such bad limescale buildup. Once my family stopped drinking so much milk it completely stopped happening and my toilets stay white.

My bestfriend consumes tons of raw milk and recently had hair mineral analysis done which showed extremely low calcium.

 

[Sebastian B]

You're enduring a situation akin to what I went through. I've been on the low vitamin A diet for over 2 months now, and I haven't experienced anything remotely as bad as what I went through near the last days of the Ray Peat diet and the start of the low toxin diet. Mine was severe; I couldn't sleep for nearly three days straight. While some suggest it's copper being mobilized, considering copper's role in calcification, it could be copper being liberated and circulating calcium in your brain and bloodstream. One approach is shaving your head and applying topical magnesium directly to your scalp. Alternatively, you can apply it elsewhere, but the process will be slower. In addition, I would avoid supplementing Zinc until this stage in your detox passes. Bag breathing might offer temporary relief for headaches and breathing. If you can't sleep, creating a pocket with your blanket to trap CO2 for you to breathe back in could help.

 

[mosaic01]

My 2 year old used to drink a lot of raw milk, but after awhile he refused to eat anything and would only drink milk. I finally cut him off dairy and he went back to eating again.

Yeah, milk is strange. I just have a glass every 2 weeks or so now, and keep it to an absolute minimum.

The biggest change I’ve noticed so far on a low toxin diet is that my blood sugar is stable for the first time in a very long time. I used to have to eat constantly so I wouldn’t have severe blood sugar drops.

Mine is stable as well now. I always sleep through the night, and only need to eat 2-3 times per day. On the sugar and milk-heavy diet, I had to snack every 1-2 hours. The worst was getting through the nights.

Peat had the same issue, which he treated symptomatically with nightly sugar or thyroid.

I think the problem for me was vitamin A and milk coupled with sucrose.

 

[DanDare]

That is indeed interesting thanks. Would you have been getting sufficient vit K? That's the only thing I can think of correlated with calcium 'dumping' (Just my own thoughts, nothing official)

I think so yes. Milk itself is supposed to be a good source and it was the finest quality raw grass fed Vax free milk one could get from a local farm with open days and happy cows. It was everything it was supposed to be, and I had no problems digesting it, no stomach upsets.

There rest of my diet was composed of fruit, particularly orange juice, rice, potatoes, beef, chicken, pork, some eggs, honey. I just dropped the milk and orange juice and the problem went, but I think it was just the milk.

.

 

[DanDare]

I had the exact same experience with the toilet. I think I read where you posted this on another thread and finally made the connection. I thought the water had changed in my area or something, because I was having such bad limescale buildup. Once my family stopped drinking so much milk it completely stopped happening and my toilets stay white.

My bestfriend consumes tons of raw milk and recently had hair mineral analysis done which showed extremely low calcium.

Yes I switched from the acid toilet bleach

To straight HCl acid:

I was worried excess amounts of acid if un-neutralized was going to quickly dissolve my cast iron toilet pipe
Never had anything like it before or since, never had limescale build up .