How to stay calm when discussing vaccines with friends and family

[k2896]

Everything that is going on in the world is making me feel extremely anxious and stressed all the time. I tried to justify why I wasn't getting the vaccine on my groupchat of friends and people were getting so annoyed at me I ended up having a panic attack. How can I approach this vaccine situation with less anger and less stress on myself, I am struggling so much with how to navigate this world knowing what I know. I get super triggered when people try and say it's for other people making out like I'm selfish. I understand that's the narrative that has been shown to them but I can't help but get angry and stressed.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Everything that is going on in the world is making me feel extremely anxious and stressed all the time. I tried to justify why I wasn't getting the vaccine on my groupchat of friends and people were getting so annoyed at me I ended up having a panic attack. How can I approach this vaccine situation with less anger and less stress on myself, I am struggling so much with how to navigate this world knowing what I know. I get super triggered when people try and say it's for other people making out like I'm selfish. I understand that's the narrative that has been shown to them but I can't help but get angry and stressed.

I hate to say it, but you are just gonna have to tell yourself that you are more discerning and not so easily fooled. Remember it is so much easier to be a follower than a leader. This saying and my faith in God has always got me through battles, "A man with no enemies stands for nothing."

 

[BodhiBlues]

I have found that the best thing to do is only engage people who are willing to listen. Most people aren't willing to listen, they are projecting their fears onto you.

Don't feel that you have to explain your self to people and if someone is being hostile, just leave the conversation, reasoning won't work against their arguments which are based purely on emotion.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I have been distancing myself from people who give me grief about anything nowadays. I just don't need or have to put up with it. Feels great!

 

[bogbody]

most of the people i know have gotten it. i just don’t really talk about it with people who don’t respect other people’s choice around it personally. i know it’s hard. i just consider it to be my private health info that is no one’s business. in a few instances i have lied just because i didn’t want to get into it and people are just so emotional about this issue. other people may disagree or call that cowardly but it’s not worth it to me to disrupt my own peace about it. i made my own choice and i don’t really believe in debating people, i prefer to lead by example.

 

[Ben.]

While i can't say that i have had such intense reactions, i found myself emotional at times when it came to this topic, especially among people i normaly feel "free" to talk my mind openly. Theres also these situations at work for instance when we eat together and they all explain proudly how they are "happy they got the jab" and it only takes "more vaccines among the population" for things to get back to normal. You know, the media infused narrative bull**** that they spew while padding their back. This situation induces a realy odd feeling of being suppresed and at unease for me. There is no point in talking with them however or convincing them (afterall they already had the jab) and i know it would just create unecessary stress/tension. I learned to just leave the table when this topic is talked about for to long to get out of this state of unease.

The thing is, the more "intense" or "crazy" you act on not getting vaccinated among the people who set their mind on being "pro vaxxine", the more you will be demonized and abandonded from thoose very people (including family and life long friends) with the stigma of a conspiracy theorist and a "stupid" person that is a health hazard for everyone else even if you are far from any of thoose.
Once in that category, wether justified or not, the interaction with others turns very scary but also sheds light on these peoples true personality traits. Some of them are the very people that would deny you healthcare/treatment when you get sick (wether its covid or not) just for the pleasure of "i told you so, its your own fault" while waving at you with their ironic "freedom-slave passport".

The irony and the sickness that this portraits would be almost funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking.

---

In the majority of the cases (unless the social circle is full of academics/doctors) it will be a discussion between people that "believe" in stuff but not knowing a whole lot realy. I always have to chuckle how the mere mention of spike protein and ACE-2 receptors makes them get quit realy quickly.

The best that you can realy do is build confidence in knowledge if you are up to the task of learning/memorizing a couple of things.
I mean, realy being able to reference stuff from the top of your head (don't overwhelme yourself tho - 3-4 bullet points will suffice unless you want to argue with scientists) that requires actually people working in the field or having done tons of homework to argue against. Not only will this shut the majority of peope that "happily bend over upon command" to shut up very quickly but will allow you to approach discussions and interactions with alot more ease and confidence.

These would be my tips:

• Try to not be overly emotional/aggresive when discussing the topic (take deep/slow breaths and center yourself with positive/good thoughts that remind you of what you know and why you choose to think/act the way you do)
• Choose your battle carefully - being right is not always for the better
• Collect and memorize good information that does not fall into the "conspiracy theory" category. This could include:
- Data/study cases that show death and adverse health effects from the mrna vaccine
- The issue with how the covid infection and sickness data has been aquired to artifically increase numbers to push lockdowns and vaccine sales
- The hypocrisy of vaccination still not being enough nor saving you from this supposed virus to justify further restrictions across the globe
- This MRNA vaccine still being experimental and everyone taking it is part of a worldwide study
- Not possible to tell the long term side effects, altough spike protein buildup has been shown in the entire body raising heavy concerns for sever health implications
- Vaccine manufacterers having a horrible, criminal track record and are not to be trusted regardless of wether MRNA vaccines "work" or not
- Patents (which go back into the 90s up to 2008) and interesst conflicts from the very people manufacturing vaccines and enforcing the lockdown rules
- Violations against laws and human rights (if you can, learn/try to name a few examples)
- The issue with the lack of informed consent
- Censorship taking overhand
And alot alot more ...

A simple list would be this one (theres lots of good arguments and references found in the raypeatforum tho):

No Jab For Me

Here are all the reasons Crimes Against Humanity are being committed and why to say NO to the mRNA jab.

nojabforme.info

Theres a ton more and the better you know some of them in detail the easier you will have it should it come to a "conversation".
However, saying (with some confidence/certainty) you dont take it and consider it dangerous is often times enough to get your stance across without turning it into anything more unless you want it to. Atleast this seems to work well for me thus far.

Edit: Sorry this got so long. Thats all i had to say realy. It might not get read but perhaps it is of some help for someone.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

most of the people i know have gotten it. i just don’t really talk about it with people who don’t respect other people’s choice around it personally. i know it’s hard. i just consider it to be my private health info that is no one’s business. in a few instances i have lied just because i didn’t want to get into it and people are just so emotional about this issue. other people may disagree or call that cowardly but it’s not worth it to me to disrupt my own peace about it. i made my own choice and i don’t really believe in debating people, i prefer to lead by example.

You said exactly what I have said to my like-minded family Bog, it isn't anybody's place to tell me what I should do with my body, or who tell me who to vote for or debate my religious beliefs. So rude and annoying. The incredulous thing to me is if someone is vaxxex why worry about what I am doing. I do my visits outdoors. Ughhh.... I have said it so many time last year that I love who I love, but I sure see them much differently with all this Covid stuff, and that's ok everything doesn't have to be the same and forever. For me changing it up has been good. I just make lemonade out of all of those lemons ?

 

[BodhiBlues]

I have been distancing myself from people who give me grief about anything nowadays. I just don't need or have to put up with it. Feels great!

That's a great idea! Too many people feel obligated to explain themselves when people give them grief about their beliefs, but it is far better just to leave the situation in many cases.

When I felt that I had to constantly defend my beliefs, my body was in constant fight or flight mode.

Sometimes a "None of your business" will shut people up and you can go on with your day.

 

[WanderingTaoist]

Just today talked with a co-worker who took the jab and was proud about it, she was doing it so she could see her grandmother and not transmit the 'virus' and go on vacation bla bla bla.
Blatantly dismissing the protest going on here in France.
I accepted the fact that discussing further more wasn't worth my energy and moved on smoothly to job relate stuff without compromising my integrity.

I think some people are desperately clinging on to the system with their 'security' and their 'comfort', and having Big Papa Government telling them what to do, how to eat and ***t.
They fail to look beyond their insecurities and their own ego, you cannot change them.
Just do your job and step back, do and say what comes naturally, walk away as needed.
Just my 2c.

 

[bogbody]

You said exactly what I have said to my like-minded family Bog, it isn't anybody's place to tell me what I should do with my body, or who tell me who to vote for or debate my religious beliefs. So rude and annoying. The incredulous thing to me is if someone is vaxxex why worry about what I am doing. I do my visits outdoors. Ughhh.... I have said it so many time last year that I love who I love, but I sure see them much differently with all this Covid stuff, and that's ok everything doesn't have to be the same and forever. For me changing it up has been good. I just make lemonade out of all of those lemons ?

yes exactly!

 

[Birdie]

Just today talked with a co-worker who took the jab and was proud about it, she was doing it so she could see her grandmother and not transmit the 'virus' and go on vacation bla bla bla.
Blatantly dismissing the protest going on here in France.
I accepted the fact that discussing further more wasn't worth my energy and moved on smoothly to job relate stuff without compromising my integrity.

I think some people are desperately clinging on to the system with their 'security' and their 'comfort', and having Big Papa Government telling them what to do, how to eat and ***t.
They fail to look beyond their insecurities and their own ego, you cannot change them.
Just do your job and step back, do and say what comes naturally, walk away as needed.
Just my 2c.

Thank you. And everyone else. I was pretty tense and these comments are all exactly what I needed. As @BodhiBlues says, "Not obligated to explain..."

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

That's a great idea! Too many people feel obligated to explain themselves when people give them grief about their beliefs, but it is far better just to leave the situation in many cases.

When I felt that I had to constantly defend my beliefs, my body was in constant fight or flight mode.

Sometimes a "None of your business" will shut people up and you can go on with your day.

Right? I just don't text back as quickly anymore and they stop asking to get together, which buys me some time for awhile. Then I will drop a thoughtful gift on their door step which let's them know I care, then I repeat the process, Rinse & rePeat ?

 

[Tre]

While i can't say that i have had such intense reactions, i found myself emotional at times when it came to this topic, especially among people i normaly feel "free" to talk my mind openly. Theres also these situations at work for instance when we eat together and they all explain proudly how they are "happy they got the jab" and it only takes "more vaccines among the population" for things to get back to normal. You know, the media infused narrative bull**** that they spew while padding their back. This situation induces a realy odd feeling of being suppresed and at unease for me. There is no point in talking with them however or convincing them (afterall they already had the jab) and i know it would just create unecessary stress/tension. I learned to just leave the table when this topic is talked about for to long to get out of this state of unease.

The thing is, the more "intense" or "crazy" you act on not getting vaccinated among the people who set their mind on being "pro vaxxine", the more you will be demonized and abandonded from thoose very people (including family and life long friends) with the stigma of a conspiracy theorist and a "stupid" person that is a health hazard for everyone else even if you are far from any of thoose.
Once in that category, wether justified or not, the interaction with others turns very scary but also sheds light on these peoples true personality traits. Some of them are the very people that would deny you healthcare/treatment when you get sick (wether its covid or not) just for the pleasure of "i told you so, its your own fault" while waving at you with their ironic "freedom-slave passport".

The irony and the sickness that this portraits would be almost funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking.

---

In the majority of the cases (unless the social circle is full of academics/doctors) it will be a discussion between people that "believe" in stuff but not knowing a whole lot realy. I always have to chuckle how the mere mention of spike protein and ACE-2 receptors makes them get quit realy quickly.

The best that you can realy do is build confidence in knowledge if you are up to the task of learning/memorizing a couple of things.
I mean, realy being able to reference stuff from the top of your head (don't overwhelme yourself tho - 3-4 bullet points will suffice unless you want to argue with scientists) that requires actually people working in the field or having done tons of homework to argue against. Not only will this shut the majority of peope that "happily bend over upon command" to shut up very quickly but will allow you to approach discussions and interactions with alot more ease and confidence.

These would be my tips:

• Try to not be overly emotional/aggresive when discussing the topic (take deep/slow breaths and center yourself with positive/good thoughts that remind you of what you know and why you choose to think/act the way you do)
• Choose your battle carefully - being right is not always for the better
• Collect and memorize good information that does not fall into the "conspiracy theory" category. This could include:
- Data/study cases that show death and adverse health effects from the mrna vaccine
- The issue with how the covid infection and sickness data has been aquired to artifically increase numbers to push lockdowns and vaccine sales
- The hypocrisy of vaccination still not being enough nor saving you from this supposed virus to justify further restrictions across the globe
- This MRNA vaccine still being experimental and everyone taking it is part of a worldwide study
- Not possible to tell the long term side effects, altough spike protein buildup has been shown in the entire body raising heavy concerns for sever health implications
- Vaccine manufacterers having a horrible, criminal track record and are not to be trusted regardless of wether MRNA vaccines "work" or not
- Patents (which go back into the 90s up to 2008) and interesst conflicts from the very people manufacturing vaccines and enforcing the lockdown rules
- Violations against laws and human rights (if you can, learn/try to name a few examples)
- The issue with the lack of informed consent
- Censorship taking overhand
And alot alot more ...

A simple list would be this one (theres lots of good arguments and references found in the raypeatforum tho):

No Jab For Me

Here are all the reasons Crimes Against Humanity are being committed and why to say NO to the mRNA jab.

nojabforme.info

Theres a ton more and the better you know some of them in detail the easier you will have it should it come to a "conversation".
However, saying (with some confidence/certainty) you dont take it and consider it dangerous is often times enough to get your stance across without turning it into anything more unless you want it to. Atleast this seems to work well for me thus far.

Edit: Sorry this got so long. Thats all i had to say realy. It might not get read but perhaps it is of some help for someone.

I just watched the evening NBC news at 6:30. There was a segment about a hospital in Florida with a unit that had been down to one covid patient but now is filled up with mostly unvaccinated people who have covid. They interviewed a nurse from the unit who said this. Being unvaccinated is getting scarier since it is the unvaccinated who are getting sick with covid now.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I just watched the evening NBC news at 6:30. There was a segment about a hospital in Florida with a unit that had been down to one covid patient but now is filled up with mostly unvaccinated people who have covid. They interviewed a nurse from the unit who said this. Being unvaccinated is getting scarier since it is the unvaccinated who are getting sick with covid now.

Oh geeze! I said just the opposite the other day, Covid doesn't seem so scary with the vax problems now.

 

[Sweet Meat]

i just laugh. i think in 18 months i've only been asked why twice, both by co-workers who tbf seemed genuinely curious. i said i don't believe it's worth discussing

i don't see the point of arguing with people. i think it's important to understand that many people just silently do as they are told, and even more do as they are told, though they might grumble about it. there is no fact or reason to their behaviour, it's just obedience to authority, thus their position should not be taken seriously. like sheep, they will follow the path of reason when they are directed to, not before, and until then i believe the best thing you can do is simply not entertain the argument at all...or at the very least troll them for lulz

"BILLIONS HAVE DIED, WHERE IS YOUR THIRD MASK??? BY GAWD YOU'RE KILLING ME WITH YOUR FACE!! GET OUT OF MY SAFE ZONE!! AHHHHHHH IM TRANSGENDERING FROM THE TANGO VARIANT!!!"

ridicule is more powerful than reason when you're dealing with ignorance

 

[Tre]

Oh geeze! I said just the opposite the other day, Covid doesn't seem so scary with the vax problems now.

I am almost equally afraid of being vaccinated and not being vaccinated. I just can't bring myself to put the vax in my body. I take a lot of vitamin d3, k2, sometimes vit e, and collagen. Sometimes I drink tonic water with quinine. I have methylene blue if I need it but it has aspirin in it too which aspirin really bothers me. My sis is on full Ivermectin protocol. The Ivermectin doc never called me back. So, I am now on amazon buying some new masks that breath because I can't breath well in my masks. I don't work but lately I seem to be seeing more people and I need to put the brakes on that. I'm hanging on but the news about unvaccinated people getting sick is bothering me.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I am almost equally afraid of being vaccinated and not being vaccinated. I just can't bring myself to put the vax in my body. I take a lot of vitamin d3, k2, sometimes vit e, and collagen. Sometimes I drink tonic water with quinine. I have methylene blue if I need it but it has aspirin in it too which aspirin really bothers me. My sis is on full Ivermectin protocol. The Ivermectin doc never called me back. So, I am now on amazon buying some new masks that breath because I can't breath well in my masks. I don't work but lately I seem to be seeing more people and I need to put the brakes on that. I'm hanging on but the news about unvaccinated people getting sick is bothering me.

I think last years big scares and problems was the ventilators and obviously blood clots. I had family get Covid with only a sniffle. In the beginning it was scary cause we didn't know facts and now we do and the vax might be what this was all about. In any case we need to be doing as Ray Peat has said about cancer, which is far more deadly than covid "first do no nothing" and "watchful waiting".

"Before cancer treatment became culturally practically obligatory, and when fewer people died of cancer, some people lived into old age with clearly “malignant” cancers, and died of some other cause. The policy of leaving a cancer alone is now established for prostate cancer in old men. Until there is clear evidence to the contrary, a similar policy might be appropriate for many kinds of cancer.
If every year more people are treated for cancer, and every year more people die of cancer, one simply wonders whether fewer people would die if few were treated." -Ray Peat

 

[Tre]

I think last years big scares and problems was the ventilators and obviously blood clots. I had family get Covid with only a sniffle. In the beginning it was scary cause we didn't know facts and now we do and the vax might be what this was all about. In any case we need to be doing as Ray Peat has said about cancer, which is far more deadly than covid "first do no nothing" and "watchful waiting".

"Before cancer treatment became culturally practically obligatory, and when fewer people died of cancer, some people lived into old age with clearly “malignant” cancers, and died of some other cause. The policy of leaving a cancer alone is now established for prostate cancer in old men. Until there is clear evidence to the contrary, a similar policy might be appropriate for many kinds of cancer.
If every year more people are treated for cancer, and every year more people die of cancer, one simply wonders whether fewer people would die if few were treated." -Ray Peat

Thank you for your perspective. It helps me widen out my response to the latest covid reports. I will continue with the watchful waiting and taking the actions I am comfortable with (vit d, keeping away from crowds etc).

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thank you for your perspective. It helps me widen out my response to the latest covid reports. I will continue with the watchful waiting and taking the actions I am comfortable with (vit d, keeping away from crowds etc).

That is what I and my household are doing. Let's take a breath together and try not to worry until we have to, watchful waiting :)

 

[equipoise]

I just don't discuss it. If it gets brought up, I straight up ignore it, pivot the convo in another direction, or if I really have no choice I use the reverse psychology and yell "I'm the anti vax satan" and make silly faces. Works all the time. But then again, those who know me personally, know I'm a big joker and am not gonna go into discussions about such things. There's absolutely no point in it.