How to stay calm when discussing vaccines with friends and family

[For Peat's Sake]

I give them the respect I feel I would like in return for choosing not to have the vaccine when speaking to them when Covid comes up as a topic of conversation. Like most things in life we will all have differences of opinion so it's not worth getting frustrated and stressed over, because people will do what suits them based on their approach to research and understanding. Embrace the diversity around you is my belief, yes we might not see things the same way, but I prefer that to everyone being the same. So my approach, speak politely, as if you were speaking to yourself and your calmness will lead them to question their irrational response if they have any nous.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Most people had so much time to look into this manufactured crisis at this point, and when you hear from these people how terrified they are, still, of the purported plague, it's not possible to feel that spending time with them would be a good use of your time. Now they are personally invested in the official narrative, by getting the mystery injections, and will tend to get aggressive if you attempt to have them merely consider non-official thoughts. Usually it's best to politely get away from them.

Yeah I think as harsh as I first thought PeatBull's last statement was, I think there is some truth to it. I am amazed how quickly and deep the lines have been divided. Funny how the non vaxxed feel so badly for the vaxxed, but how angry the vaxxed are at the non vaxxed. That seems to be telling.

 

[Sweet Meat]

In the beginning it was scary cause we didn't know facts and now we do and the vax might be what this was all about.

tbf, the statistical data that came out of china back in december 2019 proved the whole thing was a farce, before the lockdowns began

by march 2020 it was self-evident the media was recruiting people to get on tv and lie in order to spread fear instead of facts. this was really useful because many politicians in the uk and us government also got caught insider trading during this time, when the greatest stock market crash in history occurred

by april 2020 it was clear that not only were hospitals empty, but that in the uk at least, hospitals were empty DESPITE record low levels of budgeting for the nhs coupled with a 20% increase in population over 20 years - so the population went from 49 million to 70 million and we had less hospital beds by the end...and they were STILL empty. this was broadcast en masse across the world via youtube, which then began censoring it

by may 2020 it was clear that suicide rates had gone up by nearly 30% and yet by december 2020, the excess death in the uk was 80,000, based on a 5 year rolling average. this means that when accounting for population increase, 2020 was one of the least deadly years in british history and covid-19 had exactly 0.000000000000000000% affect on mortality rates, because the average age of death from covid was 83.1, which is higher than average life expectancy


the facts and evidence have never mattered, nor will they.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

tbf, the statistical data that came out of china back in december 2019 proved the whole thing was a farce, before the lockdowns began

by march 2020 it was self-evident the media was recruiting people to get on tv and lie in order to spread fear instead of facts. this was really useful because many politicians in the uk and us government also got caught insider trading during this time, when the greatest stock market crash in history occurred

by april 2020 it was clear that not only were hospitals empty, but that in the uk at least, hospitals were empty DESPITE record low levels of budgeting for the nhs coupled with a 20% increase in population over 20 years - so the population went from 49 million to 70 million and we had less hospital beds by the end...and they were STILL empty. this was broadcast en masse across the world via youtube, which then began censoring it

by may 2020 it was clear that suicide rates had gone up by nearly 30% and yet by december 2020, the excess death in the uk was 80,000, based on a 5 year rolling average. this means that when accounting for population increase, 2020 was one of the least deadly years in british history and covid-19 had exactly 0.000000000000000000% affect on mortality rates, because the average age of death from covid was 83.1, which is higher than average life expectancy


the facts and evidence have never mattered, nor will they.

That brings me again to my earlier point, have you known anybody who has died of Covid or had side effects from the vaxx. I know people who have died of it and it wasn't something else. There is no amount of "schooling" me to believe ANY narrative. I think we all believe what fits what we want it to believe and I don't believe even what I want to hear. I think when all is said and done, we will all be wrong and have an aha moment. The vaxxed aren't stupid anymore than the non-vaxxed. We can all have our opinions, but the judgement, anger, nastiness, and fear is what is deteriorating the world.

 

[Sweet Meat]

That brings me again to my earlier point, have you known anybody who has died of Covid or had side effects from the vaxx. I know people who have died of it and it wasn't something else. There is no amount of "schooling" me to believe ANY narrative.

i don't believe you because i don't believe the virus exists. dying from covid means nothing, based on medical records

I think we all believe what fits what we want it to believe and I don't believe even what I want to hear.

i don't believe. period

i look at evidence. that way, i can determine who is ignoring it, who is using it to lie, who is misinterpreting it, and determine why they might do such things in order to better understand the reality of the situation

I think whenball is said and done, we will all be wrong.

assuming everyone will be wrong for no reason is not thinking, tbh.

The vaxxed aren't stupid anymore than the non-vaxxed.

that depends on your definition of stupid.

to me, doing as you're told when you're being openly lied to, exploited and coerced and expecting things to get better and back to normal, is beyond stupid.

We can all have our opinions, but the judgement, anger, nastiness, and fear is what is deteriorating the world.

i'll take judgement, anger, nastiness and fear, long before i tolerate ignorance.

 

[GAF]

It's not a matter of stupid vs the not stupid. It's a matter of priorities.

If it's important to a person to be a part of the herd, then that person complies and remains in the herd.

Facts never matter once the tone is set and the herd starts moving together.

 

[gaze]

I am amazed how quickly and deep the lines have been divided. Funny how the non vaxxed feel so badly for the vaxxed, but how angry the vaxxed are at the non vaxxed. That seems to be telling.

well said. its easy for the unvaccinated to critique vaccinated people for being "sheep", yet those vaccinated people may have had a dad or brother or friend die after having all the covid symptoms for weeks. imagine they then go online to see people talking about people who died saying "oh he had a pre-existing condition, it doesn't matter" or "it was a flawed PCR test, fake death"

the same goes with the vaccinated, who make fun of the unvaccinated saying theyre brainwashed Q anon Trumpsters who didn't take the vaccine cause fox news propoganda. when in reality that person has researched the dangers of the vaccine, and has had friends injured from it, and they believe the vaccine to be a bigger risk then the virus itself.

it's important for everyone to recognize other people's worries, on either side of the paradigm. we are living in uncharted terriority, with a destruction of trust and truth on all levels, broken communities, loneliness, etc. it's understandable that people will come to different conclusions in such a hectic environment, so no one should get angry at other people for wanting to make what they deem to be the best choice for themselves.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

i don't believe you because i don't believe the virus exists. dying from covid means nothing, based on medical records




i don't believe. period

i look at evidence. that way, i can determine who is ignoring it, who is using it to lie, who is misinterpreting it, and determine why they might do such things in order to better understand the reality of the situation



assuming everyone will be wrong for no reason is not thinking, tbh.



that depends on your definition of stupid.

to me, doing as you're told when you're being openly lied to, exploited and coerced and expecting things to get better and back to normal, is beyond stupid.



i'll take judgement, anger, nastiness and fear, long before i tolerate ignorance.

Well and therein lies the problem you have already made up your mind and there is no discussing possibilities, so much so you have the nerve call a smart person a lier. I am not hasty or judgemental, so no harm done, I said my peace. I am leaving this hostile thread to make a nice day for myself and family carry on :)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

well said. its easy for the unvaccinated to critique vaccinated people for being "sheep", yet those vaccinated people may have had a dad or brother or friend die gasping for breath with pneumonia. imagine they then go online to see people talking about people who died saying "oh he had a pre-existing condition, it doesn't matter" or "it was a flawed PCR test, fake death"

the same goes with the vaccinated, who make fun of the unvaccinated saying theyre brainwashed Q anon Trumpsters who didn't take the vaccine cause fox news propoganda. when in reality that person has researched the dangers of the vaccine, and has had friends injured from it, and they believe the vaccine to be a bigger risk then the virus itself.

it's important for everyone to recognize other people's worries, on either side of the paradigm. we are living in uncharted terriority, with a destruction of trust and truth on all levels, broken communities, loneliness, etc. it's understandable that people will come to different conclusions in such a hectic environment, so no one should get angry at other people for wanting to make what they deem to be the best choice for themselves.

Well said too gaze! You are a very sweet and discerning person. I appreciate that response, understand what I was trying to say.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It's not a matter of stupid vs the not stupid. It's a matter of priorities.

If it's important to a person to be a part of the herd, then that person complies and remains in the herd.

Facts never matter once the tone is set and the herd starts moving together.

That is exactly right! We should all have our opinions, as wrong, as each side thinks it is, and not be so angry and judgemental, the divide is what destroying our humanity. Half of my family and friends are vaxxed and I am not angry at them or do I find them to be stupid. I just feel sad and worried for them, but my steady take on it is "I am not going to be in a rush to be hasty."

 

[Sweet Meat]

Well and therein lies the problem you have already made up your mind, and there is no discussing possibilities

you're telling me that my mind is made up yet you haven't provided any data to discuss...you just said:

"I know people who have died of it and it wasn't something else. There is no amount of "schooling" me to believe ANY narrative"

then accused me of being closed minded lol

, so much so you have the nerve call a smart person a lier.

i didn't call you a liar. i said i don't believe you know anyone died of covid because i don't believe covid exists at all. then i presented my reasons and evidence, which you ignored lol

I am not hasty or judgemental, so no harm done, I said my peace. I am leaving this hostile thread to make a nice day for myself and family carry on :)

i think you are, but no harm done.

edit; nothing wrong with being hasty or judgemental, btw. even hostility has merit. ignorance is the only thing i have an issue with because it makes reasonable discussion impossible

i don't mean to create further tribalism nor do i think vaccinated people are idiots; many people can't afford to avoid getting it, others might be ill or whatever, i'm not interested in changing their mind, i am only interested in understanding it. i don't think i can change anyone's mind. all i can do is present facts or laugh

 

[jnklheimer]

Stop trying to defend your personal decisions about what treatments/medications/etc to others. It’s none of their business.

 

[Sweet Meat]

Stop trying to defend your personal decisions about what treatments/medications/etc to others. It’s none of their business.

it's literally their business.

Make your choice about sharing data from your health records

Choose if you want to share data from your health records for planning and research.

www.nhs.uk

 

[jnklheimer]

it's literally their business.

Make your choice about sharing data from your health records

Choose if you want to share data from your health records for planning and research.

www.nhs.uk

It’s not the business of your friend group to know about your medical choices if you don’t want to share. That link shows a choice.

 

[Sweet Meat]

It’s not the business of your friend group to know about your medical choices if you don’t want to share. That link shows a choice.

the choice is to OPT OUT

since this isn't being discussed in the media, how many citizens do you imagine will go online and figure out how to do that, before the deadline?

 

[Sitaruîm]

My stance is to avoid engaging the topic as much as possible, except with my parents who I want to convince not to take the jabs. Engaging with others who follow the mainstream narrative is a battle against the current and I view it as futile effort, definitely a net negative. I never bring up the subject and when others do I try to be as concise and respectful as possible without looking like I'm on the defensive.

 

[jnklheimer]

the choice is to OPT OUT

since this isn't being discussed in the media, how many citizens do you imagine will go online and figure out how to do that, before the deadline?

The OP is about their friend group and how to deal with them prying about their personal medical information. I replied in that context. I understand your point but I’m not going to be dragged into a non-discussion about something I didn’t even consider when first replying.

 

[opethfeldt]

I know it's tough to accept but it's basically impossible to convince someone of something they don't readily perceive. Their level of conciousness is different than yours. That's why you look at a situation and see it one way while they see something different. In reality, neither of you are "wrong", you just have different perspectives. To spend energy trying to get them to see something they're blind to is fruitless. Reassure them that you only have their best interests in mind and that you care about their wellbeing. It's about all you can do. No amount of data and evidence will ever convince them.

 

[bk_]

Everything that is going on in the world is making me feel extremely anxious and stressed all the time. I tried to justify why I wasn't getting the vaccine on my groupchat of friends and people were getting so annoyed at me I ended up having a panic attack. How can I approach this vaccine situation with less anger and less stress on myself, I am struggling so much with how to navigate this world knowing what I know. I get super triggered when people try and say it's for other people making out like I'm selfish. I understand that's the narrative that has been shown to them but I can't help but get angry and stressed.

Have a 20 second pitch ready on why you won’t take it. Have a pamphlet on hand filled with facts and solid references, no conspiracy theories just straight science, to give to your family and friends and let them read it. If they are sincere they will read it, if they are not they will ignore the paper or throw it away. The real battle is spiritual, as in those with open minds who want the truth vs those who want to follow.

PM if you want more information.

 

[Ben.]

I give them the respect I feel I would like in return for choosing not to have the vaccine when speaking to them when Covid comes up as a topic of conversation. Like most things in life we will all have differences of opinion so it's not worth getting frustrated and stressed over, because people will do what suits them based on their approach to research and understanding. Embrace the diversity around you is my belief, yes we might not see things the same way, but I prefer that to everyone being the same. So my approach, speak politely, as if you were speaking to yourself and your calmness will lead them to question their irrational response if they have any nous.

I like that attitude. Calmness and respect is a rare virtue these days when it comes to this topic and i am sure it will allow for better interaction and less stress for any one.
Ofcourse the question arrises how one reacts if confronted aggresively. Some people are in fear, anxious and might even succumb to panic attacks.

That brings me again to my earlier point, have you known anybody who has died of Covid or had side effects from the vaxx. I know people who have died of it and it wasn't something else.

How? How can you be sure of that? What methods have been employed to come to this conclusion?
I would realy love to be walked trough the exact mechanisms of thoose particular deaths with each individual case. And saying they all had lung failure or loss of taste is not a explanation nor proof. There needs to exist more detail for this claim.

I think we all believe what fits what we want it to believe and I don't believe even what I want to hear.

That sounds a little contradictory dear Rinse. How can you state these people died 100% of covid and then say that we all believe what fits us?
I also disagree with the statement as far as i am concerned personally. Very often i'd rather believe the official narrative, get vaxxed and have everything be sunshine and rainbows. The ironic thing is, both sides, pro and antivaxx people know that its not going to be over, even if we were all jabbed.

I think when all is said and done, we will all be wrong and have an aha moment. The vaxxed aren't stupid anymore than the non-vaxxed. We can all have our opinions, but the judgement, anger, nastiness, and fear is what is deteriorating the world.

This could be possible. In either case its not about whos right but to avoid needless deaths, health detorriations and if there is any hidden agenda or threath that it is/will be dealt with/taken care of.

well said. its easy for the unvaccinated to critique vaccinated people for being "sheep", yet those vaccinated people may have had a dad or brother or friend die after having all the covid symptoms for weeks. imagine they then go online to see people talking about people who died saying "oh he had a pre-existing condition, it doesn't matter" or "it was a flawed PCR test, fake death"

the same goes with the vaccinated, who make fun of the unvaccinated saying theyre brainwashed Q anon Trumpsters who didn't take the vaccine cause fox news propoganda. when in reality that person has researched the dangers of the vaccine, and has had friends injured from it, and they believe the vaccine to be a bigger risk then the virus itself.

it's important for everyone to recognize other people's worries, on either side of the paradigm. we are living in uncharted terriority, with a destruction of trust and truth on all levels, broken communities, loneliness, etc. it's understandable that people will come to different conclusions in such a hectic environment, so no one should get angry at other people for wanting to make what they deem to be the best choice for themselves.

Well said. The aggresion and the lack of understanding goes for both sides.
The loss of a fellow human is always a tragedy fueled with sadness. Wishing justice due to our emotions upon the murderer is completly normal. The restrictions, masks and vaccines may not have safed them and there is the possibility that all of whats done has caused more deaths as a consequence. What about thoose deaths? Were they justified because someone else died to a infection? Who can grasp the reality of things and be the judge of this?

One main problem that further amplifies people to turn on one another is that pro vaxxers and believers of the official narrative are currently recieving privliges and more "freedom" for now while thoose who consider not going with it have to fear loosing their jobs/home, loosing chances of finding any employment in the future, being cast out of society or being only tolerated under unworthy conditions and denied access to basic needs such as buying food and other necessarieties.

The blackmailing gets worse as time passes and it can potentially lead to devoted nonvaxxers to

1. Get jabbed against their better judgment, potentially ruining the health of a person and their offsprings (does not have to be but how do we know until years down the line?)
2. Force them to illegaly register as vaxxed
3. Find/build a alternative place to live among like minded people
4. civil war

These options are created due to the situation the goverments across the globe puts us in, not the virus. Its dividing the people, going as far as wishing the worst upon your fellow human. All the while the reality lies either in the virus being the culprit or a host of evil people that have to much power.