How to stay calm when discussing vaccines with friends and family

[charlie]

The real battle is spiritual

This.

" For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

most of the people i know have gotten it. i just don’t really talk about it with people who don’t respect other people’s choice around it personally. i know it’s hard. i just consider it to be my private health info that is no one’s business. in a few instances i have lied just because i didn’t want to get into it and people are just so emotional about this issue. other people may disagree or call that cowardly but it’s not worth it to me to disrupt my own peace about it. i made my own choice and i don’t really believe in debating people, i prefer to lead by example.

Virtue signaling is deeply engrained in a lot of people. So many people feel they are more noble by them getting the jab. Like they’re doing something good for society. I think it has a lot to do with the progressive dumbing down of the general populations, particularly in the West within the last 30+ years. The schools, religious institutions, political institutions all have had a hand in this. The media is complicit in playing upon people’s guilt….promoting that someone is good and virtuous if they take a jab for the rest of society. They are practiced at manipulating the feelings of the generally unthinking public.

 

[Tre]

you make a lot of valid points, and ask valid questions, many of which I would like to know the answers to myself.

you make a lot of valid points, and ask valid questions, many of which I would like to know the answers to myself.

gaze:
I am encouraged that you are asking questions that the people in charge of the vaccination program and monitoring the results should ask. I have not come across too many doctors asking a lot of critical questions about the vax program. I told one of my doctors I did not want the jab. Doc gave me the "millions of people have taken it" spiel. I told doc there are alternatives to the jab. So doc said they "trusted the science." So I said, "science is a political term now." The topic died. "The science" is pretty unscientific now.

Also, if so many people don't want the jab, why won't the government allow and provide other options for that group. Maybe we would begin to trust them again. Vitamins, anti virals, medications etc. Their constant hammering the round peg into a square hole is wearing on everyone.

Here's a short report on 100% of the people I have talked to in depth (7 people) about their experience with the vax:
Person 1: became very sick right after the first shot and tested positive for covid. Very sick for several months after the first shot (I think they had the virus in the body before the jab and lots of health issues before the jab)
Person 2: became sick right after the first jab and tested positive for covid. Pretty sick with covid for about 4-5 days after jab (probably also had the virus before the jab)
Person 3: got quite sick after the jab (assumed vax reaction) for several days and then got some brain fog-regrets the jab
Persons 4,5,6,7: got some sickness (apparent vax reaction) for a day or two them recovered

 

[For Peat's Sake]

I like that attitude. Calmness and respect is a rare virtue these days when it comes to this topic and i am sure it will allow for better interaction and less stress for any one.
Ofcourse the question arrises how one reacts if confronted aggresively. Some people are in fear, anxious and might even succumb to panic attacks.

Yeah you’re quite right. A perfect example being that this week I spoke to one Uncle who had vaccinated and was isolating because he was ill. Then I spoke to another Uncle who hasn’t vaccinated and was isolating because he had been in close contact with the ill Uncle. The ill one said the unvaccinated one was an idiot for not having the vaccine and the unvaccinated one said the ill one was aggressive and really went off on him despite him being calm and just making his own choice, as he would with anything else in life, politics, religion etc.
On top of everything else this is just another tool to divide and conquer. Which I pointed out to the ill one, he was quite calm because I was calm and I never mentioned my beliefs or anything to do with the vaccine, just pointing out that maybe he had forgotten that people have choice and thinking they shouldn’t have a choice is a media/political driven agenda, no matter how much or little information someone has on the efficacy of a vaccine, whether a virus is real or not. Isolate the way someone is interacting and point that out to them rather than focusing on the debate itself. If they then choose to still be aggressive it’s on them, you can’t effect that in life.
Granted this is stressful for everyone and I do agree it’s easy to be made anxious but trying to have an outlook of calmness from the beginning is a good starting point even if you’re kidding yourself with that initially as well as who you are speaking to.

Have a great week

 

[k2896]

Thanks fo all these answers they have helped hugely and has really put me at ease. I realise now there’s no point in wasting my energy on trying to convince anyone and I’m learning to accept that some of my friends will judge me negatively and think I’m selfish. I have been a people pleaser most of my life up until a few years ago, so it’s a process learning to be okay with disagreements and judgements.

I think it’s so important to understand that their belief is as strong mine and I can’t really blame them if they have just been following the narrative. You can’t force someone to open their eyes it has be done on their own accord.

I need to take breaks from listening to podcasts about vaccines, and just find my sense of humour again. This year has really made me a lot more serious than I’ve ever been and I just want to laugh again. Laughter is such an underrated medicine! Yesterday I finally listened to a funny podcast (my dad wrote a porno) rather than listening to my typical health podcasts and I burst at laughing down the street in front of people multiple times, it was just what I needed after such a stressful day :)

 

[k2896]

While i can't say that i have had such intense reactions, i found myself emotional at times when it came to this topic, especially among people i normaly feel "free" to talk my mind openly. Theres also these situations at work for instance when we eat together and they all explain proudly how they are "happy they got the jab" and it only takes "more vaccines among the population" for things to get back to normal. You know, the media infused narrative bull**** that they spew while padding their back. This situation induces a realy odd feeling of being suppresed and at unease for me. There is no point in talking with them however or convincing them (afterall they already had the jab) and i know it would just create unecessary stress/tension. I learned to just leave the table when this topic is talked about for to long to get out of this state of unease.

The thing is, the more "intense" or "crazy" you act on not getting vaccinated among the people who set their mind on being "pro vaxxine", the more you will be demonized and abandonded from thoose very people (including family and life long friends) with the stigma of a conspiracy theorist and a "stupid" person that is a health hazard for everyone else even if you are far from any of thoose.
Once in that category, wether justified or not, the interaction with others turns very scary but also sheds light on these peoples true personality traits. Some of them are the very people that would deny you healthcare/treatment when you get sick (wether its covid or not) just for the pleasure of "i told you so, its your own fault" while waving at you with their ironic "freedom-slave passport".

The irony and the sickness that this portraits would be almost funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking.

---

In the majority of the cases (unless the social circle is full of academics/doctors) it will be a discussion between people that "believe" in stuff but not knowing a whole lot realy. I always have to chuckle how the mere mention of spike protein and ACE-2 receptors makes them get quit realy quickly.

The best that you can realy do is build confidence in knowledge if you are up to the task of learning/memorizing a couple of things.
I mean, realy being able to reference stuff from the top of your head (don't overwhelme yourself tho - 3-4 bullet points will suffice unless you want to argue with scientists) that requires actually people working in the field or having done tons of homework to argue against. Not only will this shut the majority of peope that "happily bend over upon command" to shut up very quickly but will allow you to approach discussions and interactions with alot more ease and confidence.

These would be my tips:

• Try to not be overly emotional/aggresive when discussing the topic (take deep/slow breaths and center yourself with positive/good thoughts that remind you of what you know and why you choose to think/act the way you do)
• Choose your battle carefully - being right is not always for the better
• Collect and memorize good information that does not fall into the "conspiracy theory" category. This could include:
- Data/study cases that show death and adverse health effects from the mrna vaccine
- The issue with how the covid infection and sickness data has been aquired to artifically increase numbers to push lockdowns and vaccine sales
- The hypocrisy of vaccination still not being enough nor saving you from this supposed virus to justify further restrictions across the globe
- This MRNA vaccine still being experimental and everyone taking it is part of a worldwide study
- Not possible to tell the long term side effects, altough spike protein buildup has been shown in the entire body raising heavy concerns for sever health implications
- Vaccine manufacterers having a horrible, criminal track record and are not to be trusted regardless of wether MRNA vaccines "work" or not
- Patents (which go back into the 90s up to 2008) and interesst conflicts from the very people manufacturing vaccines and enforcing the lockdown rules
- Violations against laws and human rights (if you can, learn/try to name a few examples)
- The issue with the lack of informed consent
- Censorship taking overhand
And alot alot more ...

A simple list would be this one (theres lots of good arguments and references found in the raypeatforum tho):

No Jab For Me

Here are all the reasons Crimes Against Humanity are being committed and why to say NO to the mRNA jab.

nojabforme.info

Theres a ton more and the better you know some of them in detail the easier you will have it should it come to a "conversation".
However, saying (with some confidence/certainty) you dont take it and consider it dangerous is often times enough to get your stance across without turning it into anything more unless you want it to. Atleast this seems to work well for me thus far.

Edit: Sorry this got so long. Thats all i had to say realy. It might not get read but perhaps it is of some help for someone.

Thanks for this, I truly appreciate it! Definitely gonna use these tips. I’ve been meaning to memorise things but I have adhd and struggle to actually do the things I say I want to do. I end up listening to a bunch of podcasts without actually making notes or memorising anything and I end up getting flustered in a disagreement as I have it in my head but not quite so I cannot articulate myself correctly. Knowledge is so important and I’m slowly starting to learn that. I have a curious mind but need to learn how to laser focus it.

 

[k2896]

Yeah you’re quite right. A perfect example being that this week I spoke to one Uncle who had vaccinated and was isolating because he was ill. Then I spoke to another Uncle who hasn’t vaccinated and was isolating because he had been in close contact with the ill Uncle. The ill one said the unvaccinated one was an idiot for not having the vaccine and the unvaccinated one said the ill one was aggressive and really went off on him despite him being calm and just making his own choice, as he would with anything else in life, politics, religion etc.
On top of everything else this is just another tool to divide and conquer. Which I pointed out to the ill one, he was quite calm because I was calm and I never mentioned my beliefs or anything to do with the vaccine, just pointing out that maybe he had forgotten that people have choice and thinking they shouldn’t have a choice is a media/political driven agenda, no matter how much or little information someone has on the efficacy of a vaccine, whether a virus is real or not. Isolate the way someone is interacting and point that out to them rather than focusing on the debate itself. If they then choose to still be aggressive it’s on them, you can’t effect that in life.
Granted this is stressful for everyone and I do agree it’s easy to be made anxious but trying to have an outlook of calmness from the beginning is a good starting point even if you’re kidding yourself with that initially as well as who you are speaking to.

Have a great week

I love that response about choice, I’m definitely going to take a leaf out of your book and use that the next time someone brings it up. No matter what your beliefs are it should always be a choice.

 

[Donnea]

This is very difficult because you really just want to slap them to get them to wake up.
At the end of the day, we can't control what other people do, only what we do. So I constantly remind myself that they are victims of propaganda and brainwashing. They are not bad, or evil. They are good people who just can't see the evil in others, and the brainwashing worked better on them than it did on me.
When I approach it from that angle, I feel compassion for them, and I no longer feel the urge to knock them out .

 

[For Peat's Sake]

I love that response about choice, I’m definitely going to take a leaf out of your book and use that the next time someone brings it up. No matter what your beliefs are it should always be a choice.

Best of luck to you, don't waste your stress responses on others at times like these. Look out for them but be a bit selfish and make time for your own relaxation and a laugh.

 

[k2896]

This is very difficult because you really just want to slap them to get them to wake up.
At the end of the day, we can't control what other people do, only what we do. So I constantly remind myself that they are victims of propaganda and brainwashing. They are not bad, or evil. They are good people who just can't see the evil in others, and the brainwashing worked better on them than it did on me.
When I approach it from that angle, I feel compassion for them, and I no longer feel the urge to knock them out .

Yeah I see so much hate from both sides but if only we could all just take a step back and understand how each individual got to where they are. Definitely been thinking about things from your angle but I still react in the moment, so need to keep reminding myself of these things! Just today someone I work with asked if I’ve got it and I said no and she told me a few things about why should think about it (in a non judgemental way) and I didn’t say much just accepted what she said and moved on. She was coming from a place of love and I didn’t get annoyed in that moment.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Hit them with data. They love their precious science, so here's some science.

This study clearly shows and concludes that if you're under 55, getting the vax gives you a higher chance of dying from thrombosis and thrombocytopenia, than the potential risk from COVID:

Eurosurveillance | Benefits and risks associated with different uses of the COVID-19 vaccine Vaxzevria: a modelling study, France, May to September 2021

Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia (TTS) has been identified as a rare adverse event following COVID-19 vaccination with Vaxzevria. We modelled the benefits and risks of Vaxzevria distribution from May to September 2021 in metropolitan France where other vaccines are available, considering French...

www.eurosurveillance.org

Now you have a polite answer for "why don't you want the vaccine?" which shows you're scientifically-oriented and not some kind of "conspiratorial Anti-vaxxer". Might sway some people.

 

[Lollipop2]

Hit them with data. They love their precious science, so here's some science.

This study clearly shows and concludes that if you're under 55, getting the vax gives you a higher chance of dying from thrombosis and thrombocytopenia, than the potential risk from COVID:

Eurosurveillance | Benefits and risks associated with different uses of the COVID-19 vaccine Vaxzevria: a modelling study, France, May to September 2021

Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia (TTS) has been identified as a rare adverse event following COVID-19 vaccination with Vaxzevria. We modelled the benefits and risks of Vaxzevria distribution from May to September 2021 in metropolitan France where other vaccines are available, considering French...

www.eurosurveillance.org

Now you have a polite answer for "why don't you want the vaccine?" which shows you're scientifically-oriented and not some kind of "conspiratorial Anti-vaxxer". Might sway some people.

Interesting study. Thank you for posting.

 

[steel_reserve]

"I'm not getting the shot because I'm not a Trump cultist."


That should get them going.

 

[Donnea]

Yeah I see so much hate from both sides but if only we could all just take a step back and understand how each individual got to where they are. Definitely been thinking about things from your angle but I still react in the moment, so need to keep reminding myself of these things! Just today someone I work with asked if I’ve got it and I said no and she told me a few things about why should think about it (in a non judgemental way) and I didn’t say much just accepted what she said and moved on. She was coming from a place of love and I didn’t get annoyed in that moment.

Yes people are so divided, by design, and it creates so much anger and frustration. I have to keep reminding myself that everyone has to come to their own conclusions. Some take longer than others to figure things out. In my case, you can't show my family evidence, research or point to lies that were told. They won't hear it. My dad would call it "fake news" and not even glance at it. So, I have to respect that they are not able to wrap their heads around it right now, and just love them.
So I take it as an opportunity ty try to grow as a person and not get angry or petty (which is how my inner child wants to react!).

I live in a very liberal state and I'm surrounded with uber-liberals. My oldest and one of my dearest friends is one of them, and she is a great person. Strong morals and a good sense of right and wrong. She just believes what she has been told. It's as simple as that. She did surprise me last month though. She has been an avid anti-vaxxer for 2 decades, and she got the jab! Now she is trying to talk others into taking it too, because "it's the right thing to do".
There is some serious mind games going on to get people to think and behave like this.

So, best of luck to you and just take a lot of deep breaths and focus on being a good loving person :)

 

[k2896]

Yes people are so divided, by design, and it creates so much anger and frustration. I have to keep reminding myself that everyone has to come to their own conclusions. Some take longer than others to figure things out. In my case, you can't show my family evidence, research or point to lies that were told. They won't hear it. My dad would call it "fake news" and not even glance at it. So, I have to respect that they are not able to wrap their heads around it right now, and just love them.
So I take it as an opportunity ty try to grow as a person and not get angry or petty (which is how my inner child wants to react!).

I live in a very liberal state and I'm surrounded with uber-liberals. My oldest and one of my dearest friends is one of them, and she is a great person. Strong morals and a good sense of right and wrong. She just believes what she has been told. It's as simple as that. She did surprise me last month though. She has been an avid anti-vaxxer for 2 decades, and she got the jab! Now she is trying to talk others into taking it too, because "it's the right thing to do".
There is some serious mind games going on to get people to think and behave like this.

So, best of luck to you and just take a lot of t

That’s so fascinating that this was the vaccine she decided to take, the least tested one. Just goes to show what a year of fear does to people. I live in London and I logged into my personal Instagram for the first time in ages and was just bombarded with stories about debunking the anti Vaxers, I can totally see how everyone in my generation is being collectively brainwashed into thinking that this is the most morally right thing you can do. One guy I went to school with even appeared in an NHS vaccine ad and everyone was commending him for doing it. Definitely going back to staying off my personal Instagram, just makes me uneasy.

good luck to you too! Let’s just hope that more and more people begin to wake up

 

[mrchibbs]

I just don't discuss it. If it gets brought up, I straight up ignore it, pivot the convo in another direction, or if I really have no choice I use the reverse psychology and yell "I'm the anti vax satan" and make silly faces. Works all the time. But then again, those who know me personally, know I'm a big joker and am not gonna go into discussions about such things. There's absolutely no point in it.

The anti vax satan! Haha, I'll make sure to use that one.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

You can try asking questions. Maybe "Who will take care of me if I'm seriously injured? And who will take care of my family..". Or "I'm trying to figure out what the risk of dying from covid actually is, do you know? How does that compare to the vaccine?" If they say no one is injured, you can ask "Can you point me at the actual injury numbers? Who is keeping track of that?"

 

[frannybananny]

No I haven't. Ray Peat talks much about aspirin curing cancer, which is a fascinating story too! I have had two people I know who have had breast cancer and decided NOT to do the doctor route, and cleaned up their diets instead, and the tumors shrunk up to being gone, that was 10+ years ago!

You are such a great researcher I am surprised that you haven't heard of Fenbendazole and the incredible work that it does clearing the body of parasites and also curing the cancer they cause. Read the Joe Tippens Story...

THE CONSOLIDATED STORY PUBLISHED AS ONE ENTRY FOR EASE OF USE ON MOBIL

AUGUST 2016 Attitude is Everything has always been my mantra. It seems that the more troublesome an event or challenge I've faced, my natural defense mechanism

www.mycancerstory.rocks

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

You are such a great researcher I am surprised that you haven't heard of Fenbendazole and the incredible work that it does clearing the body of parasites and also curing the cancer they cause. Read the Joe Tippens Story...

THE CONSOLIDATED STORY PUBLISHED AS ONE ENTRY FOR EASE OF USE ON MOBIL

AUGUST 2016 Attitude is Everything has always been my mantra. It seems that the more troublesome an event or challenge I've faced, my natural defense mechanism

www.mycancerstory.rocks

Thanks, but I am only a good researcher when a problem arises. If the advice works that is all I care about. There is so much conflicting information with seemingly credible people that I only endorse what works in my personal experience.

 

[ddjd]

When someone asks you the question they don't want an answer to... give them 25. Here's our working list:

1. Because the Covid-19 vaccination programme has overlooked multiple important safety measures, and many shortcuts have been taken.

2. Because adequate animal testing was NOT carried out.

3. Because they only followed trial participants for two weeks post-jab.

4. Because this is brand-new technology and methodology.

5. Robert Malone; the inventor of mRNA vaccination, is seriously concerned.

6. Big concerns also regarding the spike protein.

7. All major minds on the subject are concerned (and I don’t mean Fauci or Whitty. They are not virologists, or vaccinologists, and they also appear to be entirely compromised.

8. These vaccines have caused more deaths in 8 months than ALL other vaccines combined over the past 20 years.

9. Nobody forced you to have a flu vaccine.

10. The flu jab generally is taken only by the vulnerable and susceptible; no mass vaccination exercise.

11. The entire 'pandemic' is dubious. Deaths WITH... in 28 days. Using a test that is not a diagnistic tool.

12. The magnitude of adverse reactions is horrifying. So many with clots, heart problems, seizures...

13. Zero long term data.

14. Covid-19 has a 99.98% average recovery rate.

15. Because highly-cited Professor of Medicine, Health Research and Policy, and of Biomedical Data Science at Stanford University School of Medicine, John Loannadis said in a peer-reviewed WHO-published report that healthy under-60s were at less risk from Covid-19 than the flu.

16. Nobody fires a nurse for not having the flu jab.

17. Nobody says take the flu jab to protect grandma.

18. Nobody incentivises the flu jab with free burgers/ beers/lottery tickets.

19. Because of the fear campaign and falsehoods.

20. Because of the unscientific, blatant hypocrisy amongst the minutia of decision-makers.

21. Because most people get mild symptoms, or none at all (according to Chris Whitty).

22. Because Italy and others have banned the Astrazeneca shot for under-60s.

23. Because the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Norway have banned the Moderna shot for under-40s.

24. Because they are trying to force it on children.

25. Because if you took the television and newspapers away, most people wouldn’t even be aware of Covid-19.

26. Sorry you asked yet?