Fecal Transplant Testing

[jyb]

I always wondered how or if living a promiscuous lifestyle, constantly having oral sex affects gut microbes..
I mean, babies are affected at birth due to their immature gut, but I guess pboyimlovinithim that it has to impact at least a bit in some way.

You'll laugh but if you read Art Ayers, you conclude that such promiscuity should be positive not negative. He says (sometimes as an exaggeration) that its good to get exposed to bacteria from the soil or from the public restroom, as it help to keep a minimum of gut bacteria diversity.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I always wondered how or if living a promiscuous lifestyle, constantly having oral sex affects gut microbes..
I mean, babies are affected at birth due to their immature gut, but I guess pboyimlovinithim that it has to impact at least a bit in some way.

You'll laugh but if you read Art Ayers, you conclude that such promiscuity should be positive not negative. He says (sometimes exaggerating slightly) that its good to get exposed to bacteria from the soil or from the public restroom, as it help to keep a minimum of gut bacteria diversity remains.

But would someone who eats only fast food be a positive contribution to your diversity, even if he has half a dozen abomination strains left in him?

 

[jyb]

But would someone who eats only fast food be a positive contribution to your diversity, even if he has half a dozen abomination strains left in him?

Let me try to guess what he'd say. He doesn't say any dirt is good. That eating raw soil is risky since it could have dangerous pathogens. It's more about: when your gut diversity is so messed up, that's the kind of extreme measure you need to take. And in a way he has been proven right: feces transplant seems to work like a godsend for some people with serious gut disease. So in the case of promiscuity with a sick individual...well, if you have a good gut, which according to him implies enough bacterial diversity, it is resistant and in the worst you only have a slight immune system stimulation.

It shouldn't be surprising. If you are exposed to a situation more than once, your body learns and it becomes resistant. If you are *never* exposed to a public restroom, and you walk in, it wouldn't be surprising to think this would be harmful. Take for example indigenous people: when they first have contact with people from the outside, they have a high risk of death due to this new germ contact.

 

[Stuart]

Not as terrifying as being a hetro in Saudi Arabia

Not with you. Why is being hetero in Saudi Arabia a problem? They're also pretty intolerant of homosexuality aren't they?
I find it interesting that the more wealthy/educated a society becomes, the less intolerant it becomes. Not just usually either. Without exception. The nutcases remain. Just fewer and fewer of them.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

Well why do you think homosexuals are so famous for "immune deficiency syndrome"?

A whole new level of ignorance here.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

A lot of off topic stuff in my beloved thread! Anyway, getting bacteria orally are mostly killed in the stomach. This is the main reason the "probiotics" we've chosen to put in food are special: they're recognized as some of the few that survive stomach acid.

Taking bacteria in enteric capsules is another thing entirely.

 

[Stuart]

A lot of off topic stuff in my beloved thread! Anyway, getting bacteria orally are mostly killed in the stomach. This is the main reason the "probiotics" we've chosen to put in food are special: they're recognized as some of the few that survive stomach acid.

Taking bacteria in enteric capsules is another thing entirely.

There's a lot of misinformation about probiotics too. None of the bacterial strains found in fermented foods - even if they get past low stomach pH (in an enteric capsule for instance) - will reproduce in your gut. It has to be soil based bacteria. 'Art Ayers explains it very well. Fermented foods (including the bacteria they contain) are healthy for a host of other reasons. But they do nothing for the diversity of your own microbiota.

Exchanging bacteria through intimate contact , ingesting soil. contact with your pets, does though.

Tourists who have had no long term exposure to local pathogens (giardia in underdeveloped countries for example) are very vulnerable.
I was a bit surprised by the 'homosexuals are more likely to transmit HIV' comment too, since you mention it.
Wasn't that bigot Ugandan cleric scary?

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

A lot of off topic stuff in my beloved thread! Anyway, getting bacteria orally are mostly killed in the stomach. This is the main reason the "probiotics" we've chosen to put in food are special: they're recognized as some of the few that survive stomach acid.

Taking bacteria in enteric capsules is another thing entirely.

There's a lot of misinformation about probiotics too. None of the bacterial strains found in fermented foods - even if they get past low stomach pH (in an enteric capsule for instance) - will reproduce in your gut. It has to be soil based bacteria. 'Art Ayers explains it very well. Fermented foods (including the bacteria they contain) are healthy for a host of other reasons. But they do nothing for the diversity of your own microbiota.

Exchanging bacteria through intimate contact , ingesting soil. contact with your pets, does though.

Tourists who have had no long term exposure to local pathogens (giardia in underdeveloped countries for example) are very vulnerable.
I was a bit surprised by the 'homosexuals are more likely to transmit HIV' comment too, since you mention it.
Wasn't that bigot Ugandan cleric scary?

Indeed, there are plenty of other mechanisms of probiotics, like outcompeting and suppressing other overgrown colonies in the gut - despite the probiotics not "taking." Continuously passing them through - i.e. kefir for breakfast everyday - has a considerable effect.

What evidence do you see for eating and kissing providing bacteria that survive through the stomach? Couldn't the tourist phenomenon you mention be explained merely by your pre-existing gut bacteria adapting to the new environment (external, and food ingested)? That is, rather than some new bacteria from the environment getting through your stomach acid and repopulating your gut...

 

[Stuart]

Indeed, there are plenty of other mechanisms of probiotics, like outcompeting and suppressing other overgrown colonies in the gut - despite the probiotics not "taking." Continuously passing them through - i.e. kefir for breakfast everyday - has a considerable effect.

What evidence do you see for eating and kissing providing bacteria that survive through the stomach? Couldn't the tourist phenomenon you mention be explained merely by your pre-existing gut bacteria adapting to the new environment (external, and food ingested)? That is, rather than some new bacteria from the environment getting through your stomach acid and repopulating your gut...

I'm making a distinction between the bacteria (and yeasts/fungi as well ) that are found in fermented foods, and the species that are found in soil. Some 'probiotic' pills contain the SBO bacteria, and some are still using fermented food types.
SBO's, possibly because soil is a much harsher environment than a fermenting foodstuff, are encapsulated in a spore, which is how they are able to survive stomach pH without enteric coating etc.
This link is to the website of 'Prescript Assist' , which is one of the most successful SBO pill making companies. Another one worth looking into (if you can't face the 'pinch of soil' prospect) is 'Primal Assist'. I haven't looked at it yet. But the Prescript Assist website has put some great information together about the critical difference between soil based organisms and fermented food bacteria, in the human microbiome.
I'm not actually sure whether every single one of the commensal (and pathogenic for that matter) bacteria and yeasts/ fungi which can be found in the human microbiome can also be found living, working, and reproducing in soil too. I think they can, and I'll let you know as soon as I find something credible.

I'm not sure that everyone's microbiome contains some of the strains which could benefit them. Particularly if your childhood has been punctuated by at least a few courses of antibiotics. So some of the ones you need , might NOT 'pre- exist' at all. As to whether kissing etc exchanged biota will be carried to the colon unscathed by stomach pH? Not sure. I'll find out.
My gut feeling (sorry!) is that they can. The reason for my confidence stems from considering how we (and the millions of species with microbiomes that preceded us - all the way back to insects) and the mutualistic bond between microbiome and host developed. Until very very recently our entire lives, every single moment from birth to death, was spent in dirt. No soap whatsoever. Degreasers? Are you kidding? It was a constant milieu. The pboy perspective, that bacteria are 'bad -just for rotting' is a breathtakingly recent aberration.
Almost all of life on earth is about dirt, the bacteria and yeasts/fungii that live in it, and the way higher organisms have developed forms and mechanisms to use them to their advantage.

I constantly remind myself that if the bacteria yeasts etc had not proved to be such a useful part of our makeup, they certainly wouldn't be such a huge percentage of who we are.
Anyway, see what you think of the P.A stuff.

http://www.prescript-assist.com/intesti ... robiotics/

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well why do you think homosexuals are so famous for "immune deficiency syndrome"?

A whole new level of ignorance here.

Do you disagree with the fact that both the genital region and the rectum host germ colonies?

 

[Stuart]

Well why do you think homosexuals are so famous for "immune deficiency syndrome"?

A whole new level of ignorance here.

Do you disagree with the fact that both the genital region and the rectum host germ colonies?

Sure they do. But the 'V' in HIV stands for 'virus', not bacteria.
In any case unprotected vaginal sex is considerably more likely to transmit HIV than protected anal sex -whether it's between same sex or heterosexual partners.
The whole 'homosexuals are more likely to transmit HIV' really is either ignorance or bigotry I'm afraid. Homosexuals who use condoms correctly are as safe as anyone else.
Of course you're not a bigot Such _, but it's not as If people in advanced countries don't have access to the facts.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well why do you think homosexuals are so famous for "immune deficiency syndrome"?

A whole new level of ignorance here.

Do you disagree with the fact that both the genital region and the rectum host germ colonies?

Sure they do. But the 'V' in HIV stands for 'virus', not bacteria.
In any case unprotected vaginal sex is considerably more likely to transmit HIV than protected anal sex -whether it's between same sex or heterosexual partners.
The whole 'homosexuals are more likely to transmit HIV' really is either ignorance or bigotry I'm afraid. Homosexuals who use condoms correctly are as safe as anyone else.
Of course you're not a bigot Such _, but it's not as If people in advanced countries don't have access to the facts.

That's why I'm talking about AIDS, not HIV.

 

[Stuart]

That's why I'm talking about AIDS, not HIV.

The term ' AIDS' refers to the conditions that people develop who contract the Human Immunodeficincy Virus - HIV.
In other words you contract HIV and then later on if you don't respond to the anti retroviral drugs available now, you develop AIDS.
Where have you been Such_?

 

[Such_Saturation]

That's why I'm talking about AIDS, not HIV.

The term ' AIDS' refers to the conditions that people develop who contract the Human Immunodeficincy Virus - HIV.
In other words you contract HIV and then later on if you don't respond to the anti retroviral drugs available now, you develop AIDS.
Where have you been Such_?

Not in a government reeducation camp, clearly

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

That's why I'm talking about AIDS, not HIV.

The term ' AIDS' refers to the conditions that people develop who contract the Human Immunodeficincy Virus - HIV.
In other words you contract HIV and then later on if you don't respond to the anti retroviral drugs available now, you develop AIDS.
Where have you been Such_?

Not in a government reeducation camp, clearly

Ya, if you're going to write one line answers like you're some kind of authority, then you need to create context. I've read the books and papers by Duesberg et al, so I know what you're trying to say, but the right way to say it would be, "the microbiome could be causal in deficiencies of immune response and syndromes involving suppression of the immune system."

Unless you want to just speak to the people on the same wavelength as you - which is fine - but it will not cause growth and many will misunderstand you or be put off by you.

 

[Stuart]

Ya, if you're going to write one line answers like you're some kind of authority, then you need to create context. I've read the books and papers by Duesberg et al, so I know what you're trying to say, but the right way to say it would be, "the microbiome could be causal in deficiencies of immune response and syndromes involving suppression of the immune system."

Unless you want to just speak to the people on the same wavelength as you - which is fine - but it will not cause growth and many will misunderstand you or be put off by you.

Are you saying that HIV has something to do with microbiome health?

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

Ya, if you're going to write one line answers like you're some kind of authority, then you need to create context. I've read the books and papers by Duesberg et al, so I know what you're trying to say, but the right way to say it would be, "the microbiome could be causal in deficiencies of immune response and syndromes involving suppression of the immune system."

Unless you want to just speak to the people on the same wavelength as you - which is fine - but it will not cause growth and many will misunderstand you or be put off by you.

Are you saying that HIV has something to do with microbiome health?

I'm saying that S_S was alluding to the HIV does not cause AIDS theories.

 

[Such_Saturation]

That's why I'm talking about AIDS, not HIV.

The term ' AIDS' refers to the conditions that people develop who contract the Human Immunodeficincy Virus - HIV.
In other words you contract HIV and then later on if you don't respond to the anti retroviral drugs available now, you develop AIDS.
Where have you been Such_?

Not in a government reeducation camp, clearly

Ya, if you're going to write one line answers like you're some kind of authority, then you need to create context. I've read the books and papers by Duesberg et al, so I know what you're trying to say, but the right way to say it would be, "the microbiome could be causal in deficiencies of immune response and syndromes involving suppression of the immune system."

Unless you want to just speak to the people on the same wavelength as you - which is fine - but it will not cause growth and many will misunderstand you or be put off by you.

I asked a question to try and stir a brain. I'm not here to mouthfeed people my own opinions.

 

[Stuart]

Ya, if you're going to write one line answers like you're some kind of authority, then you need to create context. I've read the books and papers by Duesberg et al, so I know what you're trying to say, but the right way to say it would be, "the microbiome could be causal in deficiencies of immune response and syndromes involving suppression of the immune system."

Unless you want to just speak to the people on the same wavelength as you - which is fine - but it will not cause growth and many will misunderstand you or be put off by you.

Are you saying that HIV has something to do with microbiome health?

I'm saying that S_S was alluding to the HIV does not cause AIDS theories.

 

[Stuart]

I'm saying that S_S was alluding to the HIV does not cause AIDS theories.

[/quote]
I'd heard of Peter Duesbergs AIDS/HIV theories years ago when Mbeki was giving them some currency. I lost interest because there seemed to be an almost universal view by serious AIDS/HiV researchers that he was wrong. I just did a quick google search of the state of play these days, and it seems the 'almost' isn't applicable anymore.
I actually thought Such_ was cracking a joke about the 'Govt brainwashing'.