Thoughts on Mucoid Plaque and juice fasting?

[thetaflow]

Hello!

I was wondering what this forum thought on the topic of mucoid plaque and juice fasting.

The theory goes that there are upward of 20lbs of impacted fecal matter residing in people's colons.

There are tons of anecdotal experiences of people passing old, solid fecal matter while only drinking juices for months at a time.

Here's an example with some gnarly pictures in there if you're brave lol.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXtGc06_l2g


I know some people take absorbents like psyllium during these fasts, but certainly many do not use anything at all and get the same impacted waste out apparently.

Would love to know your thoughts. What would be the most major drawdowns to juice fasting for a while?

 

[863127]

There's a company called Kangen that sells machines that make hydrogen-infused water (what the machines make used to be known in Japan as "ionized water", then it was learned that the machines put molecular hydrogen into the water and that's likely the reason for health benefits from it). (There are lots of less expensive molecular hydrogen-infusing machines than Kangen now.) That company has made videos of colonoscopies (a camera attached to a probe going up into someone's colon to check.. things) showing improvements after drinking the "ionized" (hydrogen-enriched) water consistently. Those colons look very clean, and all the usual tests of colon health show that they're healthy. There wasn't much control for the people's diets, so they were eating common "balanced" omnivorous diets usually, which would've resulted in some mucoid plaque having built up over the years if the theories about the extremes of what needs to be done to remove it are true.

Some of the best things for digestive health, and that eating/drinking consistently won't require unhealthy extremes that can cause other problems, are raw milk, red meat, bone broth, triphala tea, and molecular hydrogen-infused water. Juice fasting for weeks or months can make nutrient deficiencies that'll impair safe functioning and regulation of the digestive organs and detox pathways. Juices are easy to digest, and people might conflate that feeling with efficient functioning of their metabolism and detox pathways, but there are nutrients in "heavier" foods (but foods that can still digest easily even though they're "heavier" than fruit) that are important for the organs involved in digestion and detox. Small adjustments of the proportions of how much you eat of more-nutritous animal foods and fruits/fruit juices/fruit teas can make health improvements when you're consistent about it that are like what more extreme methods intend to but with much less risk of other problems there are with the extreme methods.

 

[thetaflow]

There's a company called Kangen that sells machines that make hydrogen-infused water (what the machines make used to be known in Japan as "ionized water", then it was learned that the machines put molecular hydrogen into the water and that's likely the reason for health benefits from it). (There are lots of less expensive molecular hydrogen-infusing machines than Kangen now.) That company has made videos of colonoscopies (a camera attached to a probe going up into someone's colon to check.. things) showing improvements after drinking the "ionized" (hydrogen-enriched) water consistently. Those colons look very clean, and all the usual tests of colon health show that they're healthy. There wasn't much control for the people's diets, so they were eating common "balanced" omnivorous diets usually, which would've resulted in some mucoid plaque having built up over the years if the theories about the extremes of what needs to be done to remove it are true.

Some of the best things for digestive health, and that eating/drinking consistently won't require unhealthy extremes that can cause other problems, are raw milk, red meat, bone broth, triphala tea, and molecular hydrogen-infused water. Juice fasting for weeks or months can make nutrient deficiencies that'll impair safe functioning and regulation of the digestive organs and detox pathways. Juices are easy to digest, and people might conflate that feeling with efficient functioning of their metabolism and detox pathways, but there are nutrients in "heavier" foods (but foods that can still digest easily even though they're "heavier" than fruit) that are important for the organs involved in digestion and detox. Small adjustments of the proportions of how much you eat of more-nutritous animal foods and fruits/fruit juices/fruit teas can make health improvements when you're consistent about it that are like what more extreme methods intend to but with much less risk of other problems there are with the extreme methods.

Obviously there would be some nutrients missing in the short term - but people aren't getting these things out following a "balanced" diet, are they? It's a short-term tool to reverse a lifetime of bad choices, it seems to me.

 

[863127]

Obviously there would be some nutrients missing in the short term - but people aren't getting these things out following a "balanced" diet, are they? It's a short-term tool to reverse a lifetime of bad choices, it seems to me.

I meant about the Kangen colonoscopy videos that people eating a variety of foods that are common in a "balanced" diet, but who consistently include something there's lots of evidence is good for digestive health (hydrogen-infused water) and that doesn't require the exclusion of nutritious foods for its digestive health benefits, often don't have the mucoid plaque when a camera is put into their colon. So I don't know whether the juice fasting is causing those buildups similar to how using extreme amounts of psyllium husk might, but if someone has to do an extreme supposed cleanse -- extreme meaning it isn't healthy long-term -- to be able to get the mucoid plaque to come out, and there are other ways to make the colon smooth and pink and shiny and healthy as shown by a camera and doing those things can be healthy long-term, then there's probably something going on in the colon from only drinking juices that long that's bad for the colon and making those buildups. And the hydrogen-infused water claimed in the Kangen colonoscopy videos to be great for colon health is just an example of something being including in the diet that can improve digestive health enough that the colon is very healthy; there are others that might be more convenient, like raw milk, red meat, bone broth, triphala tea, schisandra berry tea.

 

[thetaflow]

I don't think alkaline water is good in any way, there are many downsides. I used to own an ionizer as well, and there's no magic behind it.

Lol you can't possibly think that drinking juices will cause smelly, solid, nasty plaque to form - if you think that, you've probably never tried it.

 

[863127]

I didn't say alkaline water is beneficial. I meant the machines that were marketed as ionizers, marketed as supposedly beneficial because of the alkalinity, were found to also be adding molecular hydrogen to the water, and that's the reason they can be good for digestive health, but there are machines commonly available now that add molecular hydrogen and aren't marketed as "ionizers" like the Kangen machines because it's more commonly known now that the alkalinity being beneficial was a misunderstanding and it's the molecular hydrogen that can be.

This explains in more detail what was learned in Japan about the misunderstandings and marketing involving "alkaline" or "ionized" water and that what the machines were doing that was beneficial was really molecular hydrogen-infused water:

Mildly Alkaline Ionized Water: Characteristics, Benefits

Alkaline ionized water (pH 8-10) is marketed as healthy drinking water. It is produced from water ionizers via electrolysis. Alkaline ionized water containing molecular hydrogen is produced at the negative electrode

web.archive.org

Plus, even if the molecular hydrogen-infused water isn't good for the colon, then that would only add to my point that mucoid plaque must not be as common as people recommending extreme methods to remove buildup of it say it is if people who were drinking that water and who were eating a mixed diet including a variety of grains, vegetables, oils, etc that can be hard to digest still had clean colons shown by colonoscopy.

The idea that you need to make a drastic prolonged tradeoff to be able to compensate for a lifetime of mistakes that resulted in disgusting buildup in your intestines and that won't be fixed unless you do the drastic tradeoff is misguided conflation of psychological stuff with intestinal function. Yeah it's possible for people to have impacted fecal material, but (assuming your digestive health is bad enough that you do have any) are you sure it can't get gradually removed with gentler things that there's a lot more cohesive reasoning for about their digestive health benefits? The drastic tradeoff approach is some mixture of lack of information and impatience and so rationalizing incohesive reasoning for the sake of trying something quickly about a problem that's supposedly long overdue for fixing and will open up better possibilities for other things it interacts with if it can just be fixed, and it's true that better digestive health will facilitate better health in lots of ways, but without the impatience then it's not a problem to just use gentler ways that there's more cohesive evidence of the benefit of. If you want to do the juice fast to see if that stuff comes out of you, okay, maybe how gross it is will make you feel like it's better that it's out, but how will you know it wasn't caused by the juice fasting? And so then you get into a cycle of feeling like you have to make a tradeoff of being nutrient deficient but cleaning your colon with juice fasting or not being nutrient deficient but thinking there must be gross stuff building up in you and you should probably do another juice fast as soon as you've replenished other nutrients enough. It's accidental masochism because of the misguidance of some information from some research about digestive health but not enough for it to be more cohesive. I don't mean to be patronizing; I'm typing all this out because I've been curious about and considered trying similar extreme methods, but they're almost always a tradeoff that's unnecessary if you're aware of things you could do that'll be gentler short-term and more sustainable long-term and so make better use of that time you could be experimenting with the more drastic tradeoff thing. And so that's still satisfying for the impatience, I-want-to-be-healthier-ASAP, aspect of it, but without also being a tradeoff that sets you up for having to then do something to fix the tradeoff too, which would make for more unnecessary accidental masochism. (Cycling and timing of the gentler things being different from how I mean a tradeoff.)

 

[thetaflow]

I didn't say alkaline water is beneficial. I meant the machines that were marketed as ionizers, marketed as supposedly beneficial because of the alkalinity, were found to also be adding molecular hydrogen to the water, and that's the reason they can be good for digestive health, but there are machines commonly available now that add molecular hydrogen and aren't marketed as "ionizers" like the Kangen machines because it's more commonly known now that the alkalinity being beneficial was a misunderstanding and it's the molecular hydrogen that can be.

This explains in more detail what was learned in Japan about the misunderstandings and marketing involving "alkaline" or "ionized" water and that what the machines were doing that was beneficial was really molecular hydrogen-infused water:

Mildly Alkaline Ionized Water: Characteristics, Benefits

Alkaline ionized water (pH 8-10) is marketed as healthy drinking water. It is produced from water ionizers via electrolysis. Alkaline ionized water containing molecular hydrogen is produced at the negative electrode

web.archive.org

Plus, even if the molecular hydrogen-infused water isn't good for the colon, then that would only add to my point that mucoid plaque must not be as common as people recommending extreme methods to remove buildup of it say it is if people who were drinking that water and who were eating a mixed diet including a variety of grains, vegetables, oils, etc that can be hard to digest still had clean colons shown by colonoscopy.

The idea that you need to make a drastic prolonged tradeoff to be able to compensate for a lifetime of mistakes that resulted in disgusting buildup in your intestines and that won't be fixed unless you do the drastic tradeoff is misguided conflation of psychological stuff with intestinal function. Yeah it's possible for people to have impacted fecal material, but (assuming your digestive health is bad enough that you do have any) are you sure it can't get gradually removed with gentler things that there's a lot more cohesive reasoning for about their digestive health benefits? The drastic tradeoff approach is some mixture of lack of information and impatience and so rationalizing incohesive reasoning for the sake of trying something quickly about a problem that's supposedly long overdue for fixing and will open up better possibilities for other things it interacts with if it can just be fixed, and it's true that better digestive health will facilitate better health in lots of ways, but without the impatience then it's not a problem to just use gentler ways that there's more cohesive evidence of the benefit of. If you want to do the juice fast to see if that stuff comes out of you, okay, maybe how gross it is will make you feel like it's better that it's out, but how will you know it wasn't caused by the juice fasting? And so then you get into a cycle of feeling like you have to make a tradeoff of being nutrient deficient but cleaning your colon with juice fasting or not being nutrient deficient but thinking there must be gross stuff building up in you and you should probably do another juice fast as soon as you've replenished other nutrients enough. It's accidental masochism because of the misguidance of some information from some research about digestive health but not enough for it to be more cohesive. I don't mean to be patronizing; I'm typing all this out because I've been curious about and considered trying similar extreme methods, but they're almost always a tradeoff that's unnecessary if you're aware of things you could do that'll be gentler short-term and more sustainable long-term and so make better use of that time you could be experimenting with the more drastic tradeoff thing. And so that's still satisfying for the impatience, I-want-to-be-healthier-ASAP, aspect of it, but without also being a tradeoff that sets you up for having to then do something to fix the tradeoff too, which would make for more unnecessary accidental masochism. (Cycling and timing of the gentler things being different from how I mean a tradeoff.)

Alright: riddle me this - someone I'm very close with has done a 34 day WATER fast, and has been passing SOLID, smelly, nasty fecal matter every single day. That is a very common btw. Hmm? The issue with water fasting is that it's a lot harder and more depleting on the body. There are people working regular jobs juice fasting for months without issues.

Regarding the colonoscopies... do you think a colonoscopy can possibly cover 30 FEET of the digestive system?

Here, perhaps this is of interest:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQlCTsvCc3c

 

[863127]

So you think mucoid plaque builds up in the large intestine above the colon? Small intestine too?

About the person doing the water fast -- I don't know, I've never heard of that happening to anyone doing a water fast. I guess maybe a lot of people don't tell someone about it if it does. And I've done water fasts for a week or two and never had something like that happen. What have those people been eating before they do that that their intestines are that messed up? Or maybe it wasn't built up in the intestines already; maybe the resting of the digestive system from food signaled for things that had been stored other places to be mobilized to the intestines to be removed? But can that not happen if the digestive system only has to digest foods that are easy to digest but that are a combination that are also healthy for the digestive organs long-term because of enough nutrients (meat/seafood, raw dairy, fruit juice/tea)? Maybe the juice fast is allowing the digestive system enough rest, as an elimination diet, that it signals that it's a good time for things stored other places to be mobilized and excreted, but would including some other foods that are also easy to digest but include other nutrients useful for the digestive organs make that all function even better? And then it's a question of which combination of foods is easiest to digest while not being deficient in nutrients.

Also, maybe I shouldn't have said so much abou the psychological, more or less cohesive information, misguidance etc dynamic; that does sound a little patronizing. My point was the fast drastic improvement and long-term sustainability for general health (more than months) might not be exclusive.

 

[863127]

Maybe if things in hygiene/cosmetic products are absorbed through the skin, metabolized by the liver, and excreted through the colon instead of kidneys, and because of something about some chemicals in modern hygiene/cosmetic products (or combinations of) that the intestines aren't evolutionarily adapted well to completely excreting, then the small/large intestine/colon can't handle moving all of those things through well, and the possibility of buildup of waste somewhere in the intestines from that inefficiency hasn't been considered enough when formulating those products?

"Excretion in the bile is another significant form of drug elimination. The liver can actively secrete ionized drugs with a molecular weight greater than 300 g/mol into bile, from where they reach the digestive tract and are either eliminated in feces or reabsorbed as part of the enterohepatic cycle." ( ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK547662/ )

 

[thetaflow]

So you think mucoid plaque builds up in the large intestine above the colon? Small intestine too?

About the person doing the water fast -- I don't know, I've never heard of that happening to anyone doing a water fast.

Here is the topic explained simply, and likely answers some of your questions:


View: https://youtu.be/0Cj7aqyJ66Y

 

[eat my peat]

I did a 6 week juice fast before finding peating...

Solids were still coming out after 6 weeks.

How I'd describe the experience? Intense.

You become so concerned about yourself and lose interest in any of those around you.

You feel weak as you go on this journey to try clear everything out of your system.

After 6 weeks, I felt weak.

I think it can easily overtake your mental state and only want to surround yourself with fellow fruitarians who live this lifestyle.

From getting lots of carbs in, I think that side is good.

But when I see these guys now, they all seem physically weak to me.

But then again, who's to say we need to have big muscles?

 

[miquelangeles]

Stool or undigested food can sometimes become stuck in the diverticula, and during a juice cleanse the function of the intestine may recover with the decrease in inflammation, and these are eliminated usually in the first 1-2 weeks.

However, on a juice cleanse you typically drink at least 3 liters of juice per day.

Juice contains soluble fiber. With that amount of juice, the amount of fiber adds up quickly.

Soluble fiber increases stool frequency and powerfully stimulates the growth of colonic bacteria.

In human feces, bacteria make up 55% of the total solids.

Just because the poop looks solid that doesn't mean it's mucoid plaque or old stool. Even if it's solid, it's still mostly water, just like your body is 60% water.

 

[Spud]

Think mucoid plaque is all bull.
Years ago I bought a fibre product that was supposed to "loosen the mucoid plaque" within days. Drank the supplement as directed and within days, there it was, a big green ropey thing that looks like all the images. A few days later I realise I didn't clean the glass I had mixed the product in. Guess what was on the bottom of the glass. A mucousy gell with the same consistency and colour as the so called "mucoid plaque" from days earlier. The whole time the mucoid plaque was just a result of the product, not something that had been inside me the whole time.

 

[eat my peat]

Think mucoid plaque is all bull.

Yep... Ray was asked about this concept of detoxification and taking herbs etc to try achieve it and he said that when your body is functioning optimally (thyroid/vit d/calcium etc) you will be detoxifying bad things out of the system.

Therefore going on extreme juice cleanses is simply a drastic action that is not truly necessary to gain back health.