IBD, IBS, Gut Bacteria - What Works For You?

Primal2Peat

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I have a history of Ulcerative Coilitis.

I have gotten it under control with raw milk/probiotics/primal diet etc.

I've been trying the carrot salads and they just won't work for me. They make my ulcerative colitis flare up.

The rest of the Peat Diet works for me, and actually has many parallels with what I have done in the past.

I just disagree with the talk on here that we need to kill our gut bacteria.

I think we need a diverse population of bacteria in our intestines or we will suffer disease.

It's not just about the thyroid.

I recommend people do a search about fecal transplants and how successful they are.

I'm actually thinking of getting one, if I can find someone who hasn't taken antibiotics and eats a pretty healthy diet. I think I am still missing some essential bacteria that I could only get from another human. I've taken every probiotic there is, and have eaten every fermented food there is, which has given me my life back, but I think getting a fecal transplant would really set me straight.
 

kiran

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

When I had IBS, the only thing that really helped was taking (fully dissolved and gelled) gelatin after each meal. It worked well. I had tried most probiotics to no avail. A couple sortof worked.

My IBS is long gone and I have no problems with carrot salad.
 

Primal2Peat

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

Interesting, Kiran.

What were your symptoms like?

How long did it take for gelatin to cure you completely?

Did you eat fiber during the healing process?

Fiber just seems to kill my bacteria, and then wear away at my intestinal tissue.

I've been consuming tons of gelatin the last few months,
but only in hot water before I mix it with my milk, or right into my
Coffee.

You think it always needs to be gelled, huh?

I've been wondering if I'm really getting any benefits
from only dissolving it.

1 tbspn per liter of water seems so diluted. (I think that's what Great Lakes says for gelling.)
 

kiran

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

I think my issue is very similar to yours. I couldn't tolerate fiber either.

FWIW, I now believe it was a bug, possibly from a potato leek soup I made, the IBS started soon after.
I suspect there may have been a bug in the (inadequately cleaned?) leek, which was exacerbated by the cream in the soup (cream increases endotoxin absorption).

Anyways, I used to dissolve a tbsp of gelatin in sugar syrup (or OJ) and then heat in the microwave for a few seconds, make it a very thick jello and add some cold OJ . It's been a while, so I'm kinda fuzzy on the details.

That kept the IBS in check, possibly due to starving the bacteria of tryptophan or strengthening the gut. Curiously only the non-hydrolyzed version worked for this purpose, the hydrolyzed stuff didn't. Curiously Knox and GL pig gelatin didn't work either.
 

frustrated

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

Primal2Peat said:
I have a history of Ulcerative Coilitis.

I have gotten it under control with raw milk/probiotics/primal diet etc.

I've been trying the carrot salads and they just won't work for me. They make my ulcerative colitis flare up.

The rest of the Peat Diet works for me, and actually has many parallels with what I have done in the past.

I just disagree with the talk on here that we need to kill our gut bacteria.

I think we need a diverse population of bacteria in our intestines or we will suffer disease.

It's not just about the thyroid.

I recommend people do a search about fecal transplants and how successful they are.

I'm actually thinking of getting one, if I can find someone who hasn't taken antibiotics and eats a pretty healthy diet. I think I am still missing some essential bacteria that I could only get from another human. I've taken every probiotic there is, and have eaten every fermented food there is, which has given me my life back, but I think getting a fecal transplant would really set me straight.

You can't kill all your bacteria with anything Peat says so it's a mute point. I agree also that fecal transplants look promising.

Here is a paper discussing germ-free mice, obesity, and the gut microbiota you might find interesting http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten ... /2277.full
 
J

j.

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

It doesn't work for SIBO, right? It wouldn't reach that far.
 

frustrated

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

kiran said:
I think my issue is very similar to yours. I couldn't tolerate fiber either.

FWIW, I now believe it was a bug, possibly from a potato leek soup I made, the IBS started soon after.
I suspect there may have been a bug in the (inadequately cleaned?) leek, which was exacerbated by the cream in the soup (cream increases endotoxin absorption).

Anyways, I used to dissolve a tbsp of gelatin in sugar syrup (or OJ) and then heat in the microwave for a few seconds, make it a very thick jello and add some cold OJ . It's been a while, so I'm kinda fuzzy on the details.

That kept the IBS in check, possibly due to starving the bacteria of tryptophan or strengthening the gut. Curiously only the non-hydrolyzed version worked for this purpose, the hydrolyzed stuff didn't. Curiously Knox and GL pig gelatin didn't work either.

Can you not tolerate fiber or starch? They are two different things.

Starch was essentially killing me before Peat (I had all the symptoms of low-grade metabolic endotoxemia). When I switched to fruit it was like the difference between night and day.

Danny Roddy has popularized the strained orange juice idea, but he has clearly misinterpreted Peat. Peat says to strain OJ only if you suspect the company is adding enzyme treated pulp to the juice. Otherwise the non-fermentable fiber in fruit is beneficial -- I've found that I feel even better eating whole fruit instead of fruit juice.
 

charlie

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

frustrated said:
Danny Roddy has popularized the strained orange juice idea, but he has clearly misinterpreted Peat. Peat says to strain OJ only if you suspect the company is adding enzyme treated pulp to the juice. Otherwise the non-fermentable fiber in fruit is beneficial -- I've found that I feel even better eating whole fruit instead of fruit juice.

Where has Peat said that?
 

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j.

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

frustrated said:
Danny Roddy has popularized the strained orange juice idea, but he has clearly misinterpreted Peat. Peat says to strain OJ only if you suspect the company is adding enzyme treated pulp to the juice. Otherwise the non-fermentable fiber in fruit is beneficial -- I've found that I feel even better eating whole fruit instead of fruit juice.

I have home-squeezed OJ and straining it very well does make a difference, even compared to straining it with a not-as-good strainer.
 

kiran

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

frustrated said:
Can you not tolerate fiber or starch? They are two different things.

Starch was essentially killing me before Peat (I had all the symptoms of low-grade metabolic endotoxemia). When I switched to fruit it was like the difference between night and day.

I couldn't tolerate fiber.

I was and am ok with starch, especially if I do the carrot salad thing at least every other day.
 

frustrated

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

Charlie said:
frustrated said:
Danny Roddy has popularized the strained orange juice idea, but he has clearly misinterpreted Peat. Peat says to strain OJ only if you suspect the company is adding enzyme treated pulp to the juice. Otherwise the non-fermentable fiber in fruit is beneficial -- I've found that I feel even better eating whole fruit instead of fruit juice.

Where has Peat said that?

I slightly misquoted him, it was from an interview. Here is a relevant quote from an email;

"Until 2006 I was using mostly frozen pulp-free concentrate, then they introduced the enzyme process (for disposing of waste fiber, making it stay suspended in the juice), affecting even the "pulp-free" type. So now I use only sweet oranges that I squeeze myself. "

This means that straining fiber from commercial OJ, if the company is doing this, will help to reduce some gut irritation -- although you cannot completely eliminate the problem by doing so.

If he thought straining was relevant for whole fruit oj, he would have mentioned it in this quote. Seeing as Danny specifically says fiber raises endotoxin, with no further explanation, he clearly forgot what Peat said or it went over his head. Further;

"Cellulose is the safe fiber, and (boiled) bamboo shoots are another safe fiber. My May newsletter, below, has some information about the effects of other fibers, including pectin. If the fruits don't cause digestive problems, such as gas, then the fiber is good. "

I've seen him cite studies on fiber intake and bowel cancer so he probably think's cellulose, from the right fruits, is safe but probably better than none. The safe fiber would serve a purpose, e.g., binding estrogen, although not as utilitarian as bamboo shoots/raw carrot.
 

Ray-Z

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

frustrated said:
Danny Roddy has popularized the strained orange juice idea, but he has clearly misinterpreted Peat. Peat says to strain OJ only if you suspect the company is adding enzyme treated pulp to the juice. Otherwise the non-fermentable fiber in fruit is beneficial -- I've found that I feel even better eating whole fruit instead of fruit juice.

Fiber from fruit constipates the heck out of me. YMMV.

I am not at all a fan of gut bacteria. Probiotics, fermented foods, and so forth were a huge negative for me. The daily carrot, the elimination of other veggies, and the replacement of starch with non-fibrous fruit are some of the Peaty tactics that have benefited me most. So I say kill most of the squirmy little ********, but leave a few around to tell any newcomers about the massacre. :cool:

[Caveat: I'm not recommending any use of abx more strenuous than what Peat recommends. Narouz gave a nice summary in another thread.]
 

cliff

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

I'm fairly certain ray thinks you should strain oj fresh squeezed or not.

Regardless OJ with pulp is disgusting.
 

jyb

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

RP in http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/vegetables.shtml cites a paper claiming a positive effect of cellulose.

Experiments in colon cancer showed that 20% cellulose decreased significantly tumor incidence caused by DMH. The tumor-preventive effect of a cellulose diet was accompanied by increased enzyme concentrations, such as ornithine decarboxylase, thymidine kinase and beta-glucuronidase.

But he doesn't write about it in other articles. He does write that microcrystalline cellulose is bad.

For now I follow Danny's advice since I don't want to take any risks: when I strain a bottle of commercial fresh orange juice, I am amazed at the amount of pulp, especially since I drink one or more bottle a day.
 

jyb

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

kettlebell said:
What brand and type do you use jyb?

Usually the freshly squeezed OJ from Tesco, Sainsburys or Co-op. I vary because I don't know yet which is best. I think the Co-op one is fresh+pasteurized, others fresh+non-pasteurized.

As for pulp or non-pulp, I take whatever is available since I strain it anyway. I don't know which is best. The pulp-free clearly has a massive amount of pulp when I strain it (like the pulp version), so do they just reduce the pulp size? If so, it's bad because smaller pulp might go through the straining. On the other hand, maybe the pulp version might get added pulp coming from the pulp-free bottles.
 

chris

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

I get sainsburys concentrate oj. IIRC all the others use flouridated water while sainsbury's doesn't. When I tried straining it, nothing came out, not sure if I did something wrong.
 

jyb

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

chris said:
I get sainsburys concentrate oj. IIRC all the others use flouridated water while sainsbury's doesn't. When I tried straining it, nothing came out, not sure if I did something wrong.

Re straining: I mentioned getting a lot of pulp strained but that's for the fresh pulp-free OJ bottles. In other produce you can't find pulp, though it doesn't mean its pulp free just finer.

It's useful information that sainbury's concentrate is not fluoridated, thanks. How did you found out?
 

chris

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Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

jyb said:
chris said:
I get sainsburys concentrate oj. IIRC all the others use flouridated water while sainsbury's doesn't. When I tried straining it, nothing came out, not sure if I did something wrong.

Re straining: I mentioned getting a lot of pulp strained but that's for the fresh pulp-free OJ bottles. In other produce you can't find pulp, though it doesn't mean its pulp free just finer.

It's useful information that sainbury's concentrate is not fluoridated, thanks. How did you found out?

Sent them an email.
 
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