IBD, IBS, Gut Bacteria - What Works For You?

Discussion in 'Diet, Recipes' started by Primal2Peat, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Primal2Peat

    Primal2Peat Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    I have a history of Ulcerative Coilitis.

    I have gotten it under control with raw milk/probiotics/primal diet etc.

    I've been trying the carrot salads and they just won't work for me. They make my ulcerative colitis flare up.

    The rest of the Peat Diet works for me, and actually has many parallels with what I have done in the past.

    I just disagree with the talk on here that we need to kill our gut bacteria.

    I think we need a diverse population of bacteria in our intestines or we will suffer disease.

    It's not just about the thyroid.

    I recommend people do a search about fecal transplants and how successful they are.

    I'm actually thinking of getting one, if I can find someone who hasn't taken antibiotics and eats a pretty healthy diet. I think I am still missing some essential bacteria that I could only get from another human. I've taken every probiotic there is, and have eaten every fermented food there is, which has given me my life back, but I think getting a fecal transplant would really set me straight.
     
  2. kiran

    kiran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Gender:
    Male
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    When I had IBS, the only thing that really helped was taking (fully dissolved and gelled) gelatin after each meal. It worked well. I had tried most probiotics to no avail. A couple sortof worked.

    My IBS is long gone and I have no problems with carrot salad.
     
  3. OP
    Primal2Peat

    Primal2Peat Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    Interesting, Kiran.

    What were your symptoms like?

    How long did it take for gelatin to cure you completely?

    Did you eat fiber during the healing process?

    Fiber just seems to kill my bacteria, and then wear away at my intestinal tissue.

    I've been consuming tons of gelatin the last few months,
    but only in hot water before I mix it with my milk, or right into my
    Coffee.

    You think it always needs to be gelled, huh?

    I've been wondering if I'm really getting any benefits
    from only dissolving it.

    1 tbspn per liter of water seems so diluted. (I think that's what Great Lakes says for gelling.)
     
  4. kiran

    kiran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Gender:
    Male
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    I think my issue is very similar to yours. I couldn't tolerate fiber either.

    FWIW, I now believe it was a bug, possibly from a potato leek soup I made, the IBS started soon after.
    I suspect there may have been a bug in the (inadequately cleaned?) leek, which was exacerbated by the cream in the soup (cream increases endotoxin absorption).

    Anyways, I used to dissolve a tbsp of gelatin in sugar syrup (or OJ) and then heat in the microwave for a few seconds, make it a very thick jello and add some cold OJ . It's been a while, so I'm kinda fuzzy on the details.

    That kept the IBS in check, possibly due to starving the bacteria of tryptophan or strengthening the gut. Curiously only the non-hydrolyzed version worked for this purpose, the hydrolyzed stuff didn't. Curiously Knox and GL pig gelatin didn't work either.
     
  5. frustrated

    frustrated Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    134
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    You can't kill all your bacteria with anything Peat says so it's a mute point. I agree also that fecal transplants look promising.

    Here is a paper discussing germ-free mice, obesity, and the gut microbiota you might find interesting http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten ... /2277.full
     
  6. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    11,448
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
  7. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    It doesn't work for SIBO, right? It wouldn't reach that far.
     
  8. frustrated

    frustrated Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    134
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    Can you not tolerate fiber or starch? They are two different things.

    Starch was essentially killing me before Peat (I had all the symptoms of low-grade metabolic endotoxemia). When I switched to fruit it was like the difference between night and day.

    Danny Roddy has popularized the strained orange juice idea, but he has clearly misinterpreted Peat. Peat says to strain OJ only if you suspect the company is adding enzyme treated pulp to the juice. Otherwise the non-fermentable fiber in fruit is beneficial -- I've found that I feel even better eating whole fruit instead of fruit juice.
     
  9. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    11,448
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    Where has Peat said that?
     

    Attached Files:

  10. j.

    j. Guest

    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    I have home-squeezed OJ and straining it very well does make a difference, even compared to straining it with a not-as-good strainer.
     
  11. kiran

    kiran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Gender:
    Male
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    I couldn't tolerate fiber.

    I was and am ok with starch, especially if I do the carrot salad thing at least every other day.
     
  12. frustrated

    frustrated Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    134
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    I slightly misquoted him, it was from an interview. Here is a relevant quote from an email;

    "Until 2006 I was using mostly frozen pulp-free concentrate, then they introduced the enzyme process (for disposing of waste fiber, making it stay suspended in the juice), affecting even the "pulp-free" type. So now I use only sweet oranges that I squeeze myself. "

    This means that straining fiber from commercial OJ, if the company is doing this, will help to reduce some gut irritation -- although you cannot completely eliminate the problem by doing so.

    If he thought straining was relevant for whole fruit oj, he would have mentioned it in this quote. Seeing as Danny specifically says fiber raises endotoxin, with no further explanation, he clearly forgot what Peat said or it went over his head. Further;

    "Cellulose is the safe fiber, and (boiled) bamboo shoots are another safe fiber. My May newsletter, below, has some information about the effects of other fibers, including pectin. If the fruits don't cause digestive problems, such as gas, then the fiber is good. "

    I've seen him cite studies on fiber intake and bowel cancer so he probably think's cellulose, from the right fruits, is safe but probably better than none. The safe fiber would serve a purpose, e.g., binding estrogen, although not as utilitarian as bamboo shoots/raw carrot.
     
  13. Ray-Z

    Ray-Z Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    321
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    Fiber from fruit constipates the heck out of me. YMMV.

    I am not at all a fan of gut bacteria. Probiotics, fermented foods, and so forth were a huge negative for me. The daily carrot, the elimination of other veggies, and the replacement of starch with non-fibrous fruit are some of the Peaty tactics that have benefited me most. So I say kill most of the squirmy little ********, but leave a few around to tell any newcomers about the massacre. :cool:

    [Caveat: I'm not recommending any use of abx more strenuous than what Peat recommends. Narouz gave a nice summary in another thread.]
     
  14. cliff

    cliff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    I'm fairly certain ray thinks you should strain oj fresh squeezed or not.

    Regardless OJ with pulp is disgusting.
     
  15. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,769
    Location:
    UK
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    RP in http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/vegetables.shtml cites a paper claiming a positive effect of cellulose.

    But he doesn't write about it in other articles. He does write that microcrystalline cellulose is bad.

    For now I follow Danny's advice since I don't want to take any risks: when I strain a bottle of commercial fresh orange juice, I am amazed at the amount of pulp, especially since I drink one or more bottle a day.
     
  16. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    417
    Location:
    UK
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    What brand and type do you use jyb?
     
  17. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,769
    Location:
    UK
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    Usually the freshly squeezed OJ from Tesco, Sainsburys or Co-op. I vary because I don't know yet which is best. I think the Co-op one is fresh+pasteurized, others fresh+non-pasteurized.

    As for pulp or non-pulp, I take whatever is available since I strain it anyway. I don't know which is best. The pulp-free clearly has a massive amount of pulp when I strain it (like the pulp version), so do they just reduce the pulp size? If so, it's bad because smaller pulp might go through the straining. On the other hand, maybe the pulp version might get added pulp coming from the pulp-free bottles.
     
  18. chris

    chris Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    UK
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    I get sainsburys concentrate oj. IIRC all the others use flouridated water while sainsbury's doesn't. When I tried straining it, nothing came out, not sure if I did something wrong.
     
  19. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,769
    Location:
    UK
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    Re straining: I mentioned getting a lot of pulp strained but that's for the fresh pulp-free OJ bottles. In other produce you can't find pulp, though it doesn't mean its pulp free just finer.

    It's useful information that sainbury's concentrate is not fluoridated, thanks. How did you found out?
     
  20. chris

    chris Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    UK
    Re: I think gut bacteria is good for us...

    Sent them an email.
     
Loading...