Experimental Discussions

[Johhny Tazzle]

Hello hello, just wanted to provide some more results from my ongoing experiments, and plus there really aint too many places i can share my ideas. Hopefully this can aid in spinning some people's brain wheels. Recently have been waiting until im hungry to eat. This has been huge and also awesome because i dont have to focus on eating three meals a day. I usually eat twice, and i spend more tine focusing on making food presentable and tasty. I think this whole waiting till your hungry is reducing serotonin, also i dont really get stressed between meals. I think this indicates saturated fat stores are being liberated, and i kind of like being in this state, i feel more creative with an empty digestive system. And feel more connected to people. I really want to find out what happens when your fats are saturated and you fast for a little. Anybody? Anyway ive also been noticing that the people that are figuring their health out usually take about like 6-8 years if they were in bad health beforehand. I started in 2011, but was in college so you know how that goes.

 

[x-ray peat]

most here will tell you that going so long without food will deplete your liver's glycogen stores and raise your cortisol. Your blood sugar levels can become a bit erratic as a result.

 

[Johhny Tazzle]

I just wonder if the saturated fats that are released are minimizing cortisol and adrenaline. Thats what i want to find out, because its a pleasant state to be in.

 

[Blossom]

Mittir mentioned something a long time ago that if you're in good health with good glycogen stores you should be able to go quite a while (several hours) with out food and be fine/ without it causing a stress response. I'll try to find the post.
I can go much longer without eating myself if needed and it doesn't seem to have a negative impact.

 

[Tarmander]

I think this can be great. In my experience, I was never hungry before I started taking thyroid. So this would not have worked for me. But now I get hungry at least once a day, usually in the afternoons.

 

[Blossom]

Mittir mentioned 4-5 hours in this post.

You are right about higher metabolism causing caloric intake to be used differently.
Several years ago i could barely drink a cup of any fluid without feeling uncomfortable.
Now, i can drink 2-3 quarts of milk and juice daily and not feeling any kind of discomfort.
I used to stop drinking water and fluid after sunset, otherwise i had to wake up in the
middle of the night to use bathroom. Now i drink at least 1 quart of milk and juice
within 2-3 hours before bed and i do not have to wake up. I think using red light
helps to evaporate the excess fluid. Raising metabolism and temperature also increase
evaporation through skin.

I understand that sugar from juice is absorbed within half to 1 hour of eating
and that should keep blood sugar steady for 2 hours unless there is a big surge
of blood sugar. I usually feel high blood sugar from a cup orange juice or other
juices with 50/50 glucose fructose, but that does not happen with apple juice,
which has higher amount of fructose. I still need to eat some protein with
apple juice to feel full for at least 2 hours. Your 1 hour hunger seems to stem from
high blood sugar rise and consequently high insulin causing low blood sugar.
that usually takes 2 hours. Fat and fiber both slows down digestion and absorption
of sugar. That explains your comfort with whole orange. Protein also is digested at
lower rate.With good liver glycogen storage one should be able to sustain for at least 4-5 hours.
Edit: Higher metabolism also means one is able to burn glucose more efficiently, so
most of the carb will be burned instead of stored as fat.
Edit2: Adding some salt to fluid can help with lowering blood sugar.

 

[Johhny Tazzle]

Thanks tarmander and blossom, i know that experts say good thyrojd function leads to increased appetite, but it also seems like once your thyroid is working optimally then you take everything that you need from food and not much waste is used. Because im defintely not eating as many calories but im likely in a euthyroid state that is persisting. Maybe to have the whole world in good thyroid function would dramatically decrease the resources we use of the planet.

 

[Johhny Tazzle]

Blossom interesting at the end of mittr's quote it says the body will be able to burn glucose efficiently as opposed to storing fat, maybe thats what im experiencing. Like all the carbs im eating im using instead of storing some in my body.

 

[Johhny Tazzle]

So 4-5 hours and then we start using ffa as fuel?? Maybe thats why people are having problems with this philosophy, every night that would mean they are releasing their stored pufas into bloodstreAm, i get why some people benefit from aspirin at night. Whenever i take aspirin for no good reason other than to put me to sleep i think i overeat, who knows.

 

[Tenacity]

Mittir mentioned 4-5 hours in this post.

I've read Peat in an interview said as long as 12-15 hours is possible.

EDIT: Found it:

"RAY PEAT: The first thing is that if you're really healthy, you can meet challenges without experiencing something that Hans Selye would have called stress. For example, if you are not very healthy, just skipping a meal can put you in really serious stress. But a healthy person stores something like 7 or 8 ounces of glucose in the form of glycogen in the liver and the muscles and brain. And since at rest the muscles can burn primarily fatty acids, your brain is the main thing that consumes glucose. So if you're more or less inactive and relaxed, you can easily go 12-15 hours without eating and without having any stress at all. But if you're not able to store that much glycogen and for example low thyroid people, or people with a history of severe stress aren't able to store very much glycogen, and so when you run out of sugar, whether it's from going all day without eating or because your liver isn't very efficient, then your body tries to increase the available glucose. Normally, just being awake makes enough adrenaline to mobilize as much glucose from your stores as you need. But when you run out of that stored sugar, your brain still requires sugar to function properly. So, instead of just increasing the adrenaline more and more, when the adrenaline reaches a certain level and can't get the blood sugar out of your storage, then you turn on the cortisol. And that's the classic stress that can be harmful, because the cortisol dissolves first tissues like the thymus which are very fragile that starts turning to sugar just immediately when you run out of stored glycogen. And when the thymus is gone in just two or three hours of intense stress, that happens to be one of the reasons they think adults don't have thymus glands, because by the time they're dead and are analyzed, the thymus has been eaten up by stress; so they might have had a perfectly normal thymus until they were sick and dead. But after the thymus is consumed and turned to sugar, then the cortisol starts breaking down your muscles, and then the skin and the brain, lungs and heart are spared from stress, partly because they are very saturated in healthy person with androgens, testosterone and DHEAs especially which block the breakdown function of cortisol. If your brain, lungs and heart are short of those protective steroids then that's where the stress really starts causing severe, deadly damage. And the post- traumatic stress disorder is produced when someone has had such terrible stress, such as being tortured or being in terrific catastrophes, they not only deplete their stored glycogen and breakdown the expendable tissues like thymus and liver, but then the cortisol starts damaging the brain and heart and so on. So they get very severe chronic symptoms. Once the stress is completely resolved, then the brain can massively regenerate itself. For example they've seen MRIs of girls who had simply been in anorexia for months, their brain shrinks from the living on the cortisol breaking down their tissues, but once they start eating then the brain can rebuild itself in just a few weeks."

 

[Johhny Tazzle]

Thsnks so much tenacity , im going to read this many times but this is like exactly what i needed. Im experiencing that 12-15 hour window, its like the most rewarding part of this health journey where you dont need to focus on food and can enjoy other things.

 

[Johhny Tazzle]

So i wonder if low cortisol in the morning is actually healthy?

 

[Johhny Tazzle]

Or rather is low cortisol seen in healthy individuals in the morning?

 

[Tenacity]

Or rather is low cortisol seen in healthy individuals in the morning?

I think the higher your cortisol is, the lower your glycogen stores are. That's why chronically stressed people have low glycogen stores. I have heard that the cortisol surge in the morning is what wakes a person, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Blossom]

I've read Peat in an interview said as long as 12-15 hours is possible.

EDIT: Found it:

"RAY PEAT: The first thing is that if you're really healthy, you can meet challenges without experiencing something that Hans Selye would have called stress. For example, if you are not very healthy, just skipping a meal can put you in really serious stress. But a healthy person stores something like 7 or 8 ounces of glucose in the form of glycogen in the liver and the muscles and brain. And since at rest the muscles can burn primarily fatty acids, your brain is the main thing that consumes glucose. So if you're more or less inactive and relaxed, you can easily go 12-15 hours without eating and without having any stress at all. But if you're not able to store that much glycogen and for example low thyroid people, or people with a history of severe stress aren't able to store very much glycogen, and so when you run out of sugar, whether it's from going all day without eating or because your liver isn't very efficient, then your body tries to increase the available glucose. Normally, just being awake makes enough adrenaline to mobilize as much glucose from your stores as you need. But when you run out of that stored sugar, your brain still requires sugar to function properly. So, instead of just increasing the adrenaline more and more, when the adrenaline reaches a certain level and can't get the blood sugar out of your storage, then you turn on the cortisol. And that's the classic stress that can be harmful, because the cortisol dissolves first tissues like the thymus which are very fragile that starts turning to sugar just immediately when you run out of stored glycogen. And when the thymus is gone in just two or three hours of intense stress, that happens to be one of the reasons they think adults don't have thymus glands, because by the time they're dead and are analyzed, the thymus has been eaten up by stress; so they might have had a perfectly normal thymus until they were sick and dead. But after the thymus is consumed and turned to sugar, then the cortisol starts breaking down your muscles, and then the skin and the brain, lungs and heart are spared from stress, partly because they are very saturated in healthy person with androgens, testosterone and DHEAs especially which block the breakdown function of cortisol. If your brain, lungs and heart are short of those protective steroids then that's where the stress really starts causing severe, deadly damage. And the post- traumatic stress disorder is produced when someone has had such terrible stress, such as being tortured or being in terrific catastrophes, they not only deplete their stored glycogen and breakdown the expendable tissues like thymus and liver, but then the cortisol starts damaging the brain and heart and so on. So they get very severe chronic symptoms. Once the stress is completely resolved, then the brain can massively regenerate itself. For example they've seen MRIs of girls who had simply been in anorexia for months, their brain shrinks from the living on the cortisol breaking down their tissues, but once they start eating then the brain can rebuild itself in just a few weeks."

Thank you!!! For some reason I was thinking I'd read 8-12 hours but I couldn't find it with a quick search.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Thank you for the quote, Tenacity. I was just asking about this the other day but more specifically in relation to protein restriction in the morning. I don't feel very hungry until the afternoon, and forcing myself to eat a heavy breakfast doesn't give me any more energy.

So i wonder if low cortisol in the morning is actually healthy?

I think too low could mean you have burnt out your adrenals, but there must be a sweet spot. I feel like my body has trained itself not to really push out much cortisol in the morning until I get my first few sips of coffee.