Foods for a 1,600 kcal goal?

tara

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Mar 29, 2014
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Hi ghost,
I realise I and maybe others have assumed you have a health problem/suppressed that might get better with changes (other than the external threat to your health posed by pressure to half starve). So many posters here do. But maybe you are in great health?
The basic nutrition guidelines can be helpful for maintaining health. Ditching PUFAs is probably always good. Checking body temps and resting pulse can be helpful indicators of metabolism.
Finding ways to move regularly that you enjoy, if you don't already, is great.
 
OP
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Jan 17, 2015
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Damn, this thread certainly blew up while I was away, haha. Thanks for your responses, everyone; I'll try and summarize here the questions that have been reoccurring on this thread:

- my health seems to be pretty good: my resting heart rate is 71, and I can exercise for a decent amount of time; I feel no afternoon "slumps", and I feel stable all throughout the day; I feel like I have pretty reliable signals a lot of the time, for everything except hunger. I think I know, for example, when I need more sugar or protein, but everything asides from those two things seems muddled. This may have to do with external reasonings, like calorie control and imagining the effects those sorts of foods will bring (I realise this makes me sound like I have an ED, but I do eat when I'm hungry and try to stick within a reasonable calorie range - well, what I know to be a reasonable calorie range)

- I eat very low PUFA. I don't eat chicken, pork, or fatty fish; in fact, I don't really eat high fat at all. I do, however, eat a fair bit of starch - I find myself craving, and satiated by, potatoes more than anything.

- I want to lose weight for aesthetics mostly, which may seem extremely shallow, but I'm not going to deny the effect on my health either. Surely lugging around 30 extra lbs can't be good.

- On lifting days, I can eat more. On days when I'm sedentary, I can't really get extra calories outside of meals, and a lot of the time I can't really force myself to eat. Bearing in mind I've only really been keeping an eye on calories for a week now.

- I've exercised all my life; it's taken a dip in recent years, but I still manage to stay active. I sometimes go a few weeks at a time without doing anything - when I'm feeling particularly drained, or am busy - but currently i'm lifting 3-4x per week.
 

cout12

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Jan 1, 2015
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ghostofperdition said:
- I eat very low PUFA. I don't eat chicken, pork, or fatty fish; in fact, I don't really eat high fat at all. I do, however, eat a fair bit of starch - I find myself craving, and satiated by, potatoes more than anything.

Cheese, Chocolate, Fat Milk and oat biscuit and eggs are all high fat.

Personally I think your current diet seems great for health, but too high in fat to lose weight on it.

Personally, the least fat and the more carbs (especially sugar) I eat, the more I lose weight. I could add 1000 calories of sugar per day and probably not gain weight. If I were to add 1000 calories from good fat sources like cheese, milk, eggs, etc. I would probably add 10 pounds to my stable weight. I wouldn't become obese or anything but my stable weight would increase.

If I were you I would follow visionofstrength recommendation and not eat any fat other than coconut oil. And eggs if you need them for your vitamin/mineral requirement. I would definitely bring up the calories to 2000-2500, more if you feel you need it. You can most likely lose weight fast on 2000-2500 calories.

I honestly doubt you'll be able to survive on 1600 calories. You'll probably binge eat some random stuff. Might as well plan it already and eat what you need.

Just make sure you get all your micronutrients and that your digestion is great, otherwise you'll probably get some health problems.

Anyway that's just my opinion. It's not really based on any science, just my experience eating a peat diet for like 2-3 years.
 
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cout12 said:
ghostofperdition said:
- I eat very low PUFA. I don't eat chicken, pork, or fatty fish; in fact, I don't really eat high fat at all. I do, however, eat a fair bit of starch - I find myself craving, and satiated by, potatoes more than anything.

cout12 said:
Cheese, Chocolate, Fat Milk and oat biscuit and eggs are all high fat.

I mostly eat 0% cottage cheese, and have 2% milk. I've slashed my chocolate intake but I could go further; I have eggs every other day.

Personally I think your current diet seems great for health, but too high in fat to lose weight on it.

Personally, the least fat and the more carbs (especially sugar) I eat, the more I lose weight. I could add 1000 calories of sugar per day and probably not gain weight. If I were to add 1000 calories from good fat sources like cheese, milk, eggs, etc. I would probably add 10 pounds to my stable weight. I wouldn't become obese or anything but my stable weight would increase.

cout12 said:
ghostofperdition said:
If I were you I would follow visionofstrength recommendation and not eat any fat other than coconut oil. And eggs if you need them for your vitamin/mineral requirement. I would definitely bring up the calories to 2000-2500, more if you feel you need it. You can most likely lose weight fast on 2000-2500 calories.

I honestly doubt you'll be able to survive on 1600 calories. You'll probably binge eat some random stuff. Might as well plan it already and eat what you need.

Just make sure you get all your micronutrients and that your digestion is great, otherwise you'll probably get some health problems.

Anyway that's just my opinion. It's not really based on any science, just my experience eating a peat diet for like 2-3 years.

Thanks :)
 

4peatssake

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Hi ghostofperdition,

Welcome! Glad to see you weren't put off by mr. thread jack! :lol:

I'd eliminate the starch for sure and opt for a diet of oj/ripe fruit, eggs, skim/1 % milk, gelatin, carrot salad and coconut oil. Add in liver and oysters once a week and you'd have your nutrients pretty much covered. I'd also have coffee with milk and sugar and take epsom salt and baking soda baths.

This type of diet is along the lines of what I've seen Ray suggest when asked about weight loss.

Ray Peat said:
My recommendation is to eat to increase the metabolic rate (usually temperature and heart rate), rather than any particular foods. Usually the increased metabolic rate, with adequate protein, causes some muscle increase, and when that happens the basic calorie requirement will increase. The increase of muscle mass should continue for several weeks, and during that time the weight might increase a little, but usually the loss of water and fat will compensate for the greater muscle mass. I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening when a person is using it to get the needed protein and calcium. When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories."

The ratio of calcium to phosphate is very important; that's why milk and cheese are so valuable for weight loss, or for preventing weight gain. For people who aren't very active, low fat milk and cheese are better, because the extra fat calories aren't needed.

I know people who have lost weight just by eating a raw carrot every day, reducing endotoxin stress. The liver treats PUFA as it treats toxins, but when their concentration is too high, they poison the detoxifying system. Oleic acid, which we can make ourselves from carbohydrates, greatly activates the detox enzyme system.

A resistant (antiseptic) fiber such as bamboo shoots or raw carrot helps with weight loss, it reduces endotoxin and the stress hormones, and lets the liver metabolize more effectively.

It's best to lose it slowly. When I tried adding about a tablespoon of coconut oil once a day I lost about two pounds a week, for several weeks, without eating less.

Some muscle-building resistance exercise might help to increase the anabolic ratio, reducing the belly fat.

The above comes from my own files but originally came from a collection of quotations posted on Danny Roddy's previous website which was changed.

This isn't anything I've seen Peat suggest but I think Pau D'arco tea would be a good addition as well.

Also, a former forum member, cliff, posted this information on his blog. He's no longer active on the forum but he's well versed in Peat's work and offers some great information.

http://co2factor.blogspot.ca/2012/04/practical-ways-to-lose-fat.html
 

Sea

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Oct 5, 2014
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164
visionofstrength said:
Sea said:
I think that you should stop all exercise if you are eating so few calories.

You need to eat more calories than normal to sustain exercise without it becoming catabolic. The point of exercise is to build more muscle mass, not lose muscle mass by breaking it down and not eating adequate fuel to rebuild it.

I think that you should double your caloric intake if you are trying to lose body fat%.

You lose body fat by increasing your metabolism, not by malnutrition/starvation which has the opposite effect.

With caloric restriction you will lose muscle mass and bone density, while not really lowering your actual body fat%.

When any caloric restriction is ended you will have a slower metabolism than before and will quickly balloon up to a higher body fat% than you were previously. Caloric restriction is a poor plan for fat loss.
It very much depends on how you do the caloric restriction. If you can eat often enough even small quantities of food can reduce fatty acid oxidation, which is the real metabolic show stopper, and then caloric restriction should be fine.

Also, eating the thermogenic/uncoupler foods listed here (orange juice, nonfat milk, coconut oil) and keeping your thyroid level up with caffeine, further avoids fatty acid oxidation.

In other words, the effect of caloric restriction is not as obvious as some would have you believe. The key is to avoid fatty acid oxidation that can come from fasting for long periods, or (as you say) from exercising for too long so that you run out of sugar, and start oxidizing fatty acids.

Doubling calories does not automatically equal double the metabolism, apart from thermogenic/uncoupler foods. You can see what happens here on the forum, when people eat without strict caloric restriction or monitoring and (they say) gain fat. They also report being hypothyroid, which indicates a lot of fatty acid oxidation and high, unused insulin (sometimes called insulin resistance), which in turn leads to fat storage.

It's a separate question whether there's anything wrong with fat -- fat may well be a healthy, protective response. It's unfortunate that fat is often represented as unsightly, when it may be good. The key is, if you decide you want to lose fat, you can with safe caloric restriction. As Peat notes in the case of William Brown, not only did caloric restriction let him lose fat, he cured his chronic headaches and generally improved his health. But he only ate the thermogenic/uncoupler foods I've listed (perhaps substituting a little butter for coconut oil).

How will any level of caloric restriction not result in muscle catabolism?

Won't the body adjust overtime by outputting less energy in response to the caloric restriction?

When you increase calories from thermogenic foods won't muscle mass increase regardless of exercise? Won't the increase in muscle mass create a faster metabolism and lower body fat% by default?

I find it difficult to believe that people really gain fat by eating peat style foods unless they are choosing high fat foods, or drinking too many fluids and mistaking water weight for fat gain. I also don't see why anyone would attempt to lose body fat by caloric restriction when it is far easier, less risky and more sustainable to do so by eating correctly. I have been eating 3000-6000 calories daily for several months now since I discovered peat, and I have steadily lost body fat and gained muscle during this period while being completely sedentary. And, I am pretty sure I would be classified as hypothyroid not for much longer though.
 

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