EFA “deficiency” In Real Life

[ilikecats]

@Such_Saturation ? That can’t be right can it? I know there is some PUFA in oj but I never thought it was that much

 

[Jon]

@ilikecats Chris Masterjohn did a piece on PUFA which was pretty informative. It also comes to the conclusion that DHA is essential but in minute quantities.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/know-your-fats/precious-yet-perilous/

I think it stands to reason that low fat/no fat diets are only going to be beneficial in very select circumstances. Most likely no one should stay with that low of PUFA forever. Adaptations only occur with rest and sufficient energy AFTER a negative stimulus has been experienced. William Blake's hypothesis of "Contraries" if you will.

 

[Waremu]

@ilikecats Chris Masterjohn did a piece on PUFA which was pretty informative. It also comes to the conclusion that DHA is essential but in minute quantities.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/know-your-fats/precious-yet-perilous/

I think it stands to reason that low fat/no fat diets are only going to be beneficial in very select circumstances. Most likely no one should stay with that low of PUFA forever. Adaptations only occur with rest and sufficient energy AFTER a negative stimulus has been experienced. William Blake's hypothesis of "Contraries" if you will.

I disagree. Many people have done low fat for long periods of time with much benefit (including myself). Also, someone can easily eat a moderate to high fat diet and still stay well below the 4 grams of PUFA per 2000 cal that Peat mentioned (I think it's below 2 grams of PUFA per 2000 calories to become 'EFA deficient', if I can remember correctly). I don't see any evidence whatsoever that there are health problems with maintaining that much of a low PUFA intake. And I don't see how fat above a moderate level of intake will benefit most people health-wise. A fat intake higher than that would likely offer diminishing returns for most people. (Eating so much fat can displace a lot of nutrients, adding empty calories, etc.) IF DHA is essential, even eating a very low fat diet would not prevent someone from getting enough. But again, thats a big 'if.' Even at a very low fat intake, one can get the amount of DHA Chris Masterjohn recommends and that amount would be inevitable even on a very strict Peat type of low fat diet.

 

[Mito]

@Such_Saturation ? That can’t be right can it? I know there is some PUFA in oj but I never thought it was that much

Orange juice, raw Nutrition Facts & Calories

 

[nwo2012]

What evidence has he provided? He has made some theoretical arguments about how it's needed for "membrane" fluidity, exclusion of steroids in the brain, and even glucose flux, but I haven't seen anything that proves these arguments in vivo, or that DHA is, in fact, essential.

Sorry buddy I meant theoretical, and I do agree with you btw.

 

[nwo2012]

I disagree. Many people have done low fat for long periods of time with much benefit (including myself). Also, someone can easily eat a moderate to high fat diet and still stay well below the 4 grams of PUFA per 2000 cal that Peat mentioned (I think it's below 2 grams of PUFA per 2000 calories to become 'EFA deficient', if I can remember correctly). I don't see any evidence whatsoever that there are health problems with maintaining that much of a low PUFA intake. And I don't see how fat above a moderate level of intake will benefit most people health-wise. A fat intake higher than that would likely offer diminishing returns for most people. (Eating so much fat can displace a lot of nutrients, adding empty calories, etc.) IF DHA is essential, even eating a very low fat diet would not prevent someone from getting enough. But again, thats a big 'if.' Even at a very low fat intake, one can get the amount of DHA Chris Masterjohn recommends and that amount would be inevitable even on a very strict Peat type of low fat diet.

QFT.

 

[Jon]

I disagree. Many people have done low fat for long periods of time with much benefit (including myself). Also, someone can easily eat a moderate to high fat diet and still stay well below the 4 grams of PUFA per 2000 cal that Peat mentioned (I think it's below 2 grams of PUFA per 2000 calories to become 'EFA deficient', if I can remember correctly). I don't see any evidence whatsoever that there are health problems with maintaining that much of a low PUFA intake. And I don't see how fat above a moderate level of intake will benefit most people health-wise. A fat intake than that would likely offer diminishing returns for most people. (Eating so much fat can displace a lot of nutrients, adding empty calories, etc.) If DHA is essential, even eating a very low fat diet would not make one deficient in it. But again, thats a big 'if.' Even at a very low fat intake, one can get the amount of DHA Chris Masterjohn recommends and that amount would be inevitable even on a very strict Peat type of ow fat diet.

I didn't suggest taking in high amounts of PUFA. I myself don't take in more than 4g a day.

I was referring to how low OP's intake supposedly was (0.1). Also I didn't say it's bad overall to keep low fat, just that it's perhaps not ideal for everyone.

EDIT: By low fat I meant very low fat as in less than 10% of calories. Sorry, these terms are all so subjective.

 

[Such_Saturation]

@Such_Saturation ? That can’t be right can it? I know there is some PUFA in oj but I never thought it was that much

The sources like nutritiondata and wikipedia quote that amount.

 

[benaoao]

I think that “good” values, that seem to at least work extremely well for me, are equal amounts of long chain fats, MCTs, MUFA, om3 and om6 all totaling 15% of my total calories. 50g per 3000kcal.

As of a study where evidence is all discussed, not being evidence, then I don’t know. I don’t have biases. It is what it is, you believe PUFAs are best all avoided good for you. A rather technical paper discussing PUFAs being brushed off in 20 minutes leaves me thinking that the paper wasn’t even read to begin with.

 

[Jon]

I think that “good” values, that seem to at least work extremely well for me, are equal amounts of long chain fats, MCTs, MUFA, om3 and om6 all totaling 15% of my total calories. 50g per 3000kcal.

As of a study where evidence is all discussed, not being evidence, then I don’t know. I don’t have biases. It is what it is, you believe PUFAs are best all avoided good for you. A rather technical paper discussing PUFAs being brushed off in 20 minutes leaves me thinking that the paper wasn’t even read to begin with.

Agreed. N=1 is pretty much the only thing that matters for your own health.

 

[foodandtheworld]

Just got some hydrogenated coconut oil today I’m gonna add it to my diet.., Anyone thing that my skin problem are from eating less than .5 grams of fat TOTAL a day? Basically a no fat diet. And for those asking me about my diet it’s oj skim milk gelatin and a ton of refined white sugar. And yes I use supplements but none of them have problematic excipients (although I still realize they can still be potentially problematic) and I use the topical route for things like vitamin d and vitamin e. I went a whole month without any supplements and my conclusion Is that they’re not problematic for me.

If your diet has basically been a no-fat diet for an extended period of time, then your skin issues could definitely be linked to that. Very flaky and dry skin was one complaint I came across commonly when reading about the experiences of people trying a no-fat diet, or people's whose diets involved little to no fat at all, such as certain vegan high-carb low-fat diets or people with eating disorders. (I'm not saying a ultra low-fat diet does not have its place/function but maybe for an extended period of time it can produce negative reactions for some people.). Even in the Kempner diet, a diet designed for rapid weight loss, it looks like patients still had around 5 grams of fat (there's a diagram of the macro breakdown here: In Defense of Low Fat: A Call for Some Evolution of Thought (Part 1) )

What if you tried adding some fat in the form of cheese or other saturated fats Peat talks about? If you're doing the no-fat diet as a way to lose weight, then perhaps take a temporary break to add some fat back into your diet?

I'm also assuming you're getting enough calories for your age/size/activity level/sex. My very dry skin issues were linked to a suppressed metabolism with low calorie intake and low fat as well.

 

[tca300]

I did under .5 grams of PUFA for a year and a half, after I had already done 3+ years under 3 grams per day, and 6 years under 5 grams without 1 slip up. Its dangerous, and not the answer people are looking for. Using supplements to "meet" nutritional needs is risky for many reasons.

Not that anyone cares, but my opinion is that eating a diet of the most nutrient bioavailable/dense foods, that lack defensive chemicals/antigens, while trying to minimize excessive PUFA ,Iron, and foods that arent digested thoroughly by the consumer leading to excessive bacteria is the best way to go.

Change my mind

 

[Mito]

I did under .5 grams of PUFA for a year and a half, after I had already done 3+ years under 3 grams per day, and 6 years under 5 grams without 1 slip up.

How much PUFA is in your diet presently?

 

[tca300]

How much PUFA is in your diet presently?

~4 grams per day, but I'm currently in a caloric deficit, not eating things that block fatty acid oxidation, and getting a decent amount of Oleic acid, which apperently increases glucuronidation ( pufa, estrogen etc...elimination ) massively ( 8 fold ) and like coffee/caffeine massively increases cAMP which promotes full fatty acid oxidation.

So Im burning them up, or peeing them out.

 

[danishispsychic]

it would be interesting to see a pic of your tongue. - you might have fungal issues. can you post a pic?

 

[chimdp]

~4 grams per day, but I'm currently in a caloric deficit, not eating things that block fatty acid oxidation, and getting a decent amount of Oleic acid, which apperently increases glucuronidation ( pufa, estrogen etc...elimination ) massively ( 8 fold ) and like coffee/caffeine massively increases cAMP which promotes full fatty acid oxidation.

So Im burning them up, or peeing them out.

What are your main sources of Oleic acid?

 

[SOMO]

Avoiding PUFA will make your skin dry.

No way around it

 

[Kartoffel]

Avoiding PUFA will make your skin dry.

Quick, someone tell the Kitava and Tokelauens!

 

[benaoao]

Quick, someone tell the Kitava and Tokelauens!

Don’t they eat plenty of fish?

 

[Waremu]

Avoiding PUFA will make your skin dry.

No way around it

In your experience, perhaps. Not in mine. Been very low PUFA since 2012 and as long as I get enough B vitamins, magnesium, etc., to compensate for my higher metabolism (which has correlated with PUFA avoidance), my skin isn't at all dry.