EFA “deficiency” In Real Life

[ilikecats]

Hey I’ve been eating less than .1 grams of PUFA (almost everyday with few exceptions) for the last year+ and I developed some wicked eczema over the last 3 months and it’s still problematic despite interventions. What could be going on here? I’m getting a lot of B6 and zinc (ray says zinc and B6 deficiencies are the likely causes of skin issues seen in PUFA depletion experiments. Increased metabolism= increased nutrient requirements and all that). Has anyone gone this low on PUFA for this amount of time? I still think rays arguments on there being no such thing as EFA deficiency (or rather that it’s a good thing) are sound but naturally I’m starting to get a little bit skeptical. I can comprehend rays articles on PUFAs but I am still a layman primarily relying on my own experiments/experience. And this might sound odd but I’m getting a little frustrated with the people who claim that PUFA isn’t essential in any amount (disclaimer: I agree with them) but then proceed to eat 3-4-5 grams of PUFA a day and have never really tested extreme PUFA restriction for themselves for a significant amount of time.

 

[postman]

Interesting. What is your diet like.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

I’ve also read in the Peatosphere that excess iron has been known to cause eczema. Someone reported donating blood a couple of times and the eczema went away. I’ll try to find the reference for you.

 

[benaoao]

what's your ferritin like

and DHA is absolutely essential. The perfect health diet/blog recommends 1-4% of calories from PUFAs and that's fine.

 

[ilikecats]

i haven't had my ferritin checked... I think its just a hiccup on my way to a more ideal physiological state. Everything else is going great for the most part... I remember I got a patch of eczema in high school and I was already depressed/stressed and dealing with a lot of health issues. I remember that getting that just pushed me over the edge and I got extremely stressed (cortisol levels were probably through roof) and it the patch went away- the extremely stressful experience acting like a cortisone shot in a way.

 

[ilikecats]

seems to be responding to red light well

 

[Elephanto]

A small amount of linoleic acid seems to be beneficial to protect intestinal barrier integrity, perhaps the complete deficiency has a detrimental effect that is hard to compensate.

Linoleic acid and stearic acid elicit opposite effects on AgRP expression and secretion via TLR4-dependent signaling pathways in immortalized hypot... - PubMed - NCBI

In addition, Linoleic Acid suppressed the protein expression of toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4), phosphorylation levels of JNK and IKKα/β, suggesting the inhibition of TLR4-dependent inflammation pathway.

In contrast, Stearic Acid promoted TLR4 protein expression and activated TLR4-dependent inflammation pathway, with elevated ratio of p-JNK/JNK.

(TLR4 = endotoxin receptor)

A Gut Microbial Metabolite of Linoleic Acid, 10-Hydroxy-cis-12-octadecenoic Acid, Ameliorates Intestinal Epithelial Barrier Impairment Partially via GPR40-MEK-ERK Pathway

Your eczema could be related to an impaired intestinal barrier (which is also promoted by stress) leading to endotoxin entry in the blood.

I guess we need more lab rats like you to see if complete O6 abstinence actually leads to better or worse health instead of going by theories. Even Peat with his high dairy diet and inclusion of eggs is far from O6 abstinence.

 

[Fractality]

I would also like to know what your diet is. The majority of food items (except for pure sugar and hydrogenated coconut oil) contain a measurable amount of PUFA. It's been said that a true PUFA depletion diet is only possible in a lab.

 

[Kartoffel]

and DHA is absolutely essential. The perfect health diet/blog recommends 1-4% of calories from PUFAs and that's fine.

Some evidence supporting that claim would be nice.

 

[benaoao]

I shouldn’t have to provide an evidence that DHA is essential though, just like I don’t have to provide an evidence that 9 aminos are essential.

Anyways.

Is Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) Essential? Lessons from DHA Status Regulation, Our Ancient Diet, Epidemiology and Randomized Controlled Trials | The Journal of Nutrition | Oxford Academic

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I shouldn’t have to provide an evidence that DHA is essential though, just like I don’t have to provide an evidence that 9 aminos are essential.

Anyways.

Is Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) Essential? Lessons from DHA Status Regulation, Our Ancient Diet, Epidemiology and Randomized Controlled Trials | The Journal of Nutrition | Oxford Academic

That is not actual evidence. And we are not going to just accept claims about highly toxic substances being essential to our health without real evidence.

 

[nwo2012]

Just like we are not easily going to believe your PUFA intake is that low WHILST still getting all the nutrients from food. If you are getting them all from multis etc there are many possible reasons for the eczema, such as excipients.

 

[nwo2012]

That is not actual evidence. And we are not going to just accept claims about highly toxic substances being essential to our health without real evidence.

Remember that even those, such as Travis, that can provide some evidence for the need for DHA, the amounts 'needed' are so minute, youre going to get them just from the seafood we need to eat for required nutrients, alone.

 

[nwo2012]

Oh maybe the OP is an escaped lab rat so intelligent from EFA deficiency that he can work a computer.

 

[lampofred]

Oh maybe the OP is an escaped lab rat so intelligent from EFA deficiency that he can work a computer.

truth

 

[Kartoffel]

Remember that even those, such as Travis, that can provide some evidence for the need for DHA, the amounts 'needed' are so minute, youre going to get them just from the seafood we need to eat for required nutrients, alone.

What evidence has he provided? He has made some theoretical arguments about how it's needed for "membrane" fluidity, exclusion of steroids in the brain, and even glucose flux, but I haven't seen anything that proves these arguments in vivo, or that DHA is, in fact, essential.

 

[ilikecats]

Just got some hydrogenated coconut oil today I’m gonna add it to my diet.., Anyone thing that my skin problem are from eating less than .5 grams of fat TOTAL a day? Basically a no fat diet. And for those asking me about my diet it’s oj skim milk gelatin and a ton of refined white sugar. And yes I use supplements but none of them have problematic excipients (although I still realize they can still be potentially problematic) and I use the topical route for things like vitamin d and vitamin e. I went a whole month without any supplements and my conclusion Is that they’re not problematic for me.

 

[ilikecats]

Idk I see the issue of supplemention is kind of a judgement call. No food is ideal but we can choose which ones that are best or least problematic. Shell fish and eggs have essential micronutrients and minerals but the have quite a bit of PUFA. Supplements may be comprised but so what? Shell fish are likely to be contaminated (even if it’s just slightly) with various heavy metals and I was just reading an article on researchers finding small particles of plastic in shell fish and that’s on top of the PUFA. Milk in a carton is contaminated with plastic due to the fact that they line the insides of the carton with it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I shouldn’t have to provide an evidence that DHA is essential though, just like I don’t have to provide an evidence that 9 aminos are essential.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Just got some hydrogenated coconut oil today I’m gonna add it to my diet.., Anyone thing that my skin problem are from eating less than .5 grams of fat TOTAL a day? Basically a no fat diet. And for those asking me about my diet it’s oj skim milk gelatin and a ton of refined white sugar. And yes I use supplements but none of them have problematic excipients (although I still realize they can still be potentially problematic) and I use the topical route for things like vitamin d and vitamin e. I went a whole month without any supplements and my conclusion Is that they’re not problematic for me.

Just 1 cup of OJ and you have more than 0.1g PUFA