Rapid And Profound Depression Relief Noted

[Frankdee20]

For those on the forum who’ve familiarized themselves with how low I can go mood wise, you’ll understand then the contrast I speak of.

Since I’ve increased my Zinc Picolinate from 15 mg daily, to 30, and today to 60, wow ! I’m also on an isolated B 6 regimen of 100 mg daily. The amount of alcohol I consume should render me suicidal lately, but these two nutrients have made profound antidepressant like effects. I don’t even feel down, my affect, voice tone, and sense of well being have remarkably increased the last few days. I feel like a new man, Zinc makes me feel like a man, not a boy. B6 helps me too.

Who knows if it’s from lowered prolactin and dopamine increase as a result. Who knows if zinc blocks that NMDA receptor causing less glutamate anxiety, who knows if it’s the 5ht1a effects from zinc, who knows if it’s more BDNF activity from zinc, who knows if it’s a DRI. I feel awesome though, no social anxiety to speak of, bass and resonance in my voice, more aggressive like tendencies, etc.

 

[Frankdee20]

The funny thing too is if I drink, lately I become a euphoric and happy drunk. Not the depresso negative one

 

[Dhair]

I'm really glad that you have found something that works for you, Frank. Try not to overthink it. Just enjoy it.

 

[tara]

Make use of the boost it's given you to break loose from the habit.

 

[Frankdee20]

Make use of the boost it's given you to break loose from the habit.

Yes it’s a big help when I don’t have to drink to come up again

 

[B-styles]

Alcohol depletes zinc and b vits so could explain this. Zinc has been called the masculine mineral for a reason. Like you said who knows the exact mechanism going on here.

 

[Frankdee20]

Alcohol depletes zinc and b vits so could explain this. Zinc has been called the masculine mineral for a reason. Like you said who knows the exact mechanism going on here.

It’s really amazing though, I take the Zinc Picolinate 30mg. I’ve gone up to 60 but that increases anxiety. Instantly lifts my mood, and yes, I feel quite masculine instead of just indifferent or passive. Yes, they refer to it as the male mineral. It’s definitely not NMDA antagonism though eliciting results, must be Dopamine transporter effects, or 5ht1a.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Be careful with zinc. You can get a copper deficiency. But it’s great that you’re experiencing some relief. Do you eat liver?

 

[Frankdee20]

Be careful with zinc. You can get a copper deficiency. But it’s great that you’re experiencing some relief. Do you eat liver?

This is true, and I used to eat a lot of veal liver in NY. I can certainly supplement with dark chocolate. I also don’t like to go past 30.

 

[Syncopated]

The funny thing too is if I drink, lately I become a euphoric and happy drunk. Not the depresso negative one

Why are you drinking?

 

[Frankdee20]

Why are you drinking?

Simply an addict

 

[Pulstar]

Here's a quote from Dr. Peat book Nutrition for women (found in Mega master Ray newsletter pdf) on b6 and zinc. I guess, the word "reclusiveness" is probably a good synonym for social anxiety and I've read somewhere that both zinc and b6 might be helpful.

"...One type of "schizophrenia," and the very common
symptom of "agorophobia" or reclusiveness, are associated
with high levels of porphyrins and pyrroles. Fasting, liver
damage. and increased estrogen levels can raise the con-
centrations of certain of these substances: they seem to
promote urinary loss of zinc and vitamin 86. Estrogen
promotes copper (and iron, and calcium) retention. and
copper tends to displace zinc. The high levels Of copper, iron
and lead which are found in many people with mental
problems may be secondary to a hormone disturbance.
Thyroid gland or progesterone, or both, can produce a
complete disappearance of mental symptoms when those
symptoms result from any biochemical imbalance that can
be rectified hormonally. because these two substances have
very generalized regulatory functions..."

 

[Cirion]

Supplementing zinc can also give you iron deficiency. It's not popular to talk about iron deficiency on these forums but it's a very real thing.

 

[Frankdee20]

Supplementing zinc can also give you iron deficiency. It's not popular to talk about iron deficiency on these forums but it's a very real thing.

How much Zinc supplementation are we talking here and for how long ? Does it matter if one’s diet is high in iron anyway from beef and liver ?

 

[Cirion]

How much Zinc supplementation are we talking here and for how long ? Does it matter if one’s diet is high in iron anyway from beef and liver ?

The nuances and dosages I couldn't tell you. Your mileage may vary. @Douglas Ek probably would have better insight on this than me

 

[Douglas Ek]

How much Zinc supplementation are we talking here and for how long ? Does it matter if one’s diet is high in iron anyway from beef and liver ?

The nuances and dosages I couldn't tell you. Your mileage may vary. @Douglas Ek probably would have better insight on this than me

Like Cirion said I think it varies. I took zinc for years and it was quite gradual. But the last years was horrible until I realized and did blood tests my ceruloplasmin was tanked and all iron parameters were tanked. I did doses well over 100mg zinc for a while but I think lower doses for an extended time can also deplete. Zinc is also toxic in high enough amounts and you're body defends itself by producing metallothionein that binds up the excess zinc. It also has an affinity for copper thus binding copper. That's the theory behind it at least but I think there's more to it. And even doses as low as 22mg per day in one study showed lower measures of iron status.
Oral Zinc Supplementation Decreases the Serum Iron Concentration in Healthy Schoolchildren: A Pilot Study
Supplemental zinc lowers measures of iron status in young women with low iron reserves. - PubMed - NCBI

But it is well known that chronic drinkers have lowered zinc so for you it might be good. I would listen to your body. As long as it makes you feel great I doubt there's nothing to worry about. If the zinc supplement eventually stops working for some reason then you might consider lowering dose or stopping for a while.
Zinc deficiency as a mediator of toxic effects of alcohol abuse. - PubMed - NCBI
Role of Zinc in the Development/Progression of Alcoholic Liver Disease
Alcoholism Causes Alveolar Macrophage Zinc Deficiency and Immune Dysfunction
Zinc Supplementation Prevents Alcoholic Liver Injury in Mice through Attenuation of Oxidative Stress

It would matter if you consumed enough copper and iron from your diet. It would help to prevent at least to some degree it all depends on how you react to zinc.

 

[Davsey85]

Perhaps you are coping with emf

sensitivity.Have you looked into

this?

For those on the forum who’ve familiarized themselves with how low I can go mood wise, you’ll understand then the contrast I speak of.

Since I’ve increased my Zinc Picolinate from 15 mg daily, to 30, and today to 60, wow ! I’m also on an isolated B 6 regimen of 100 mg daily. The amount of alcohol I consume should render me suicidal lately, but these two nutrients have made profound antidepressant like effects. I don’t even feel down, my affect, voice tone, and sense of well being have remarkably increased the last few days. I feel like a new man, Zinc makes me feel like a man, not a boy. B6 helps me too.

Who knows if it’s from lowered prolactin and dopamine increase as a result. Who knows if zinc blocks that NMDA receptor causing less glutamate anxiety, who knows if it’s the 5ht1a effects from zinc, who knows if it’s more BDNF activity from zinc, who knows if it’s a DRI. I feel awesome though, no social anxiety to speak of, bass and resonance in my voice, more aggressive like tendencies, etc.

 

[Douglas Ek]

[Effects of different zinc nutritional status on iron metabolism in rats]. - PubMed - NCBI

This study on rats feed a control diet of zinc and iron, low zinc and normal iron and excessive zinc and normal iron.
These are the results:

RESULTS:
Compared with that of the control group, iron content both in the liver and spleen, and the concentration of serum iron in Zinc Excess group was significantly decreased (P < 0.05). Compared with the control group, zinc deficiency increased iron content in the liver and the concentration of serum transferrin receptor significantly (P < 0.05), while the concentration of serum iron was significantly decreased (P < 0.05). Compared with the control group, zinc deficiency increased the level of IRP2 mRNA and TfR mRNA expression in the liver significantly (P < 0.05).

This says to me that excess zinc lowers iron status but zinc deficiency also causes problems with iron build up.
If you read up on wikipedia about IRP:
"Cells have advanced mechanisms for sensing their own need for iron. In human cells, the best-characterized iron-sensing mechanism is the result of post-transcriptional regulation of mRNA (the chemical instructions derived from DNA genes to make proteins). Sequences of mRNA called iron-responsive elements (IREs) are contained within the mRNA sequences that code for transferrin receptors and for ferritin. Iron-responsive element-binding protein (IRE-BP) binds to these mRNA sequences. On its own, the IRE-BP binds to the IREs of ferritin and transferrin receptor mRNA. But, when iron binds to the IRE-BP, the IRE-BP changes shape with the result that the IRE-BPs can no longer bind the ferritin mRNA. This liberates the mRNA to direct the cell to make more ferritin. In other words, when there is high iron in the cell, the iron itself causes the cell to produce more iron storage molecules.

So without adequate zinc, it seems iron builds up in your cells. But with to much zinc, it starts pushing iron out of cells. I have seen similar studies in humans where zinc supplementation seems to reduce intracellular iron I read somewhere. And long term it also inhibits absorption could be through metallothionein also binding to iron but if not it sure is through reducing copper and then long term reducing ceruloplasmin.
Reduced ceruloplasmin is not good as it's a ferroxidase enzyme responsible for shuttling iron to where it's needed. It's also needed to absorb iron from your diet. And people who have low ceruloplasmin as in Wilsons disease you eventually end up with iron overload since the iron you have doesn't have any transportation to where to go and just builds up in your tissues.
Hepatic iron overload associated with a decreased serum ceruloplasmin level in a novel clinical type of aceruloplasminemia. - PubMed - NCBI
This is what the whole Morley Robbins protocol revolves around.
Boosting ceruloplasmin and fixing peoples broken iron metabolism. I don't know if I 100% agree with his stuff but a lot of it sounds, at least in theory, to be very legit.
He recommends against zinc supplements for this reason.
But I think in the case of alcoholism it could be warranted.
I think @Frankdee20 if you like to consume alcohol you should use a combination of
Zinc - is depleted in alcoholism. Has antioxidant effect against excess iron which is quite normal in alcoholics. Would protect from iron deposits in tissue and cells
Magnesium - Is also depleted in alcoholism. Helps against anxiety GABA signalling as within alcohol withdrawal and hangovers also needed to control excess iron and is protective of the liver.
Vitamin A - Necessary for proper ceruloplasmin production and protective of the liver
Vitamin E - Can also mitigate toxic effects of alcohol and iron build up on the liver

I recommend different approaches for everyone as I believe everyone is different. I personally can't take zinc. But in the right scenario zinc might be very beneficial. That's what I don't like with this forum. Everyone is trying on the one glove fits all off drinking milk, eating sugar supplementing with hormones and just hoping it will cure all problems. That's not how it works. You have to actually learn the biology and identify what scenario depending on all variables of your life... genes, lifestyle, diet etc and then you can come to conclusions as to what approach seems to be most appropriate. I sure can agree that some basic mechanics lies at the foundation of the biology of humans and most other animals. As we share the same hormonal systems, we burn glucose preferably and so on etc... And in regards to those things learning peats stuff is fantastic because even those most basic biological process humans have totally lost track off and are doing all sort of weird mainstream diets today of fasting and not eating saturated fat or sugar. But there are homeostatic elements of the human biology that is much trickier to figure out and varies from person to person. Some people have too low of some elements and some have an excess. Why is that? It can be because you have low or high of another element that works in synergy with that previous element and it just becomes a domino effect of complex processes. No one said it would be easy. But there are some fundamental rules to follow.

 

[dbh25]

How much Zinc supplementation are we talking here and for how long ? Does it matter if one’s diet is high in iron anyway from beef and liver ?

Have you had an iron panel?

 

[Douglas Ek]

Have you had an iron panel?

That's also a good question alcoholics tend to have higher iron status and lower zinc so supplementation might be good for this reason. Go get tested. Iron, Copper, zinc and even other minerals like manganese and I suspect a lot more like selenium work together in synergy and affect each other.