Cypro. Can it end the madness for me?

[Peroxphos]

suggested reading:

An Artist's Decades Long Dysautonomia Treated With Thiamine - Hormones Matter

Here is the story of my longstanding thiamine deficiency, which was not recognized by doctors.

www.hormonesmatter.com

"There are indications that a thiamine deficiency heightens susceptibility to mercury toxicity. Many of the symptoms of mercury poisoning are observed in persons with thiamine deficiency."

also this article: Detoxing From Heavy Metals
"Mercury Toxicity: Depletes glutathione (an incredible antioxidant that regenerates itself in the liver. It’s one of the important molecules you need to stay healthy and prevent disease."

I've been living with mercury poisoning and lead poisoning for many years. I've been taking high dose thiamine hcl for about 18 months. It has brought my glutathione level back up to normal. My glutathione level was very low for many years. Thiamine hcl chemically bonds to lead (making the bonded thiamine unavailable to the body) and lead poisoning symptoms and thiamine deficiency symptoms are identical. I no longer have lead poisoning symptoms.

Thiamine deficiency and nervous system function disturbances - PubMed

Thiamine is important for oxidative metabolism, and B1 deficiency is thought to give rise to polyneuropathies. A group of male Wistar rats (n = 15) received a vitamin B1 deficient diet (group-a), and the pair fed control group (n = 20, group-b) received a normal diet with no vitamin deficiency...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

also:

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Thiamine lowers brain serotonin:

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

also:

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

A mild deficiency of thiamine is responsible for the large number of the polysymptomatic illnesses reported.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I've found a lot more benefit from thiamine supplementation than from cypro. Cypro tends to cause constipation. Thiamine hcl normalized my entire digestive tract.

13 Signs of Thiamine Deficiency (B1)

Cliff notes: Thiamine deficiency was not solved decades ago by enriching grains and is alive and well. The implications of this have a huge impact on modern day health and disease. It's always been amazing to me that a country with an endless food supply and resources can coexist with so much...

butternutrition.com

also:

Post Gardasil POTS and Thiamine Deficiency- Hormones Matter

Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) observed post gardasil with a critical link to thiamine deficiency.

www.hormonesmatter.com

"In the early stages of beriberi the ANS is unbalanced, so that either the sympathetic or parasympathetic, normally working in synchrony, dominates the reaction, adversely affecting blood pressure, pulse rate and many other adaptive mechanisms, like POTS. It can be seen that the patient with POTS or beriberi is essentially maladapted and is unable to adjust bodily systems to meet environmental changes. Edema (swelling in parts of the body), a cardinal feature of beriberi, supported a diagnosis of thiamine deficiency in this mother’s daughter. Also, Gardasil is a yeast vaccine and an enzyme called thiaminase, whose action destroys thiamine, is known to be in the yeast. Thiaminase disease has been reported in Japan in association with dietary thiamine deficiency."

The Sugar - Thiamine Connection in Adverse Reactions

Diets high in sugar may contribute to thiamine deficiency and vaccine or medication induced autonomic dysregulation - an emerging hypothesis.

www.hormonesmatter.com

What thiamine dose solved your issues?
Are we talking standard high dose 100-300mg daily or megadose 1-2g daily?

 

[mostlylurking]

What thiamine dose solved your issues?
Are we talking standard high dose 100-300mg daily or megadose 1-2g daily?

I am taking 1 gram, 2Xday orally of thiamine hcl. Thiamine hcl tends to have poor success getting absorbed through the gut. It is absorbed in the duodenum (small intestine) and if you have any issues there (inflammation, SIBO, etc.) then the absorption is even worse than usual. I'm following Dr. Costantini's protocol (2 grams thiamine hcl/day based on my weight) and it has helped me a lot. 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day taken orally for 7 days = the amount received in one 100mg thiamine hcl by injection/week. See here: HDT Therapy .

I'm not sure whose "standard high dose 100-300mg daily" you are referring to. I spent about 4 months slowly increasing my dosage and experienced ups and downs in recovery until I began taking the 2 grams/day (Dr. Costantini's protocol). On that dose, my recovery stabilized.

High dose thiamine is thought to reduce cancer cells: High-dose vitamin B1 reduces proliferation in cancer cell lines analogous to dichloroacetate - PubMed Research has been done regarding different levels of thiamine dosage and the effect on cancer. Linking vitamin B1 with cancer cell metabolism - Cancer & Metabolism
quote: "In 2001, Comin-Anduix et al. evaluated the effect of increasing thiamine supplementation in multiples of the RDI on an Ehrlich ascites tumor-mouse model [58]. Their findings indicated a statistically significant stimulatory effect of thiamine supplementation on tumor growth compared to non-supplemented controls. Moderate doses of 12.5 to 37.5 times the RDI had the greatest stimulatory effect, peaking at approximately 250% greater tumor cell proliferation with 25 times the RDI. Interestingly, at values above 75 times the RDI, no change was found in tumor cell proliferation, and a slight decrease was found at 2,500 times the RDI. This observation suggests that there is a specific range in which thiamine supports proliferation."

 

[mostlylurking]

Mercury poisoning ontop of it.

Hi again. I found my notes on heavy metals poisoning and thiamine. I'll paste it below:

thiamine and heavy metals quotes:

Thiamine (2–4 mg/kg per day, SC) alleviates clinical manifestations and reduces tissue deposition of lead. Combined Ca-EDTA and thiamine treatment appears to produce the most beneficial response. Lead Poisoning in Animals - Toxicology - Merck Veterinary Manual

Lead induced thiamine deficiency in the brain decreased the threshold of electroshock seizure in rat

Thiamine supplementation reversed these signs and decreased the brain lead concentration in the lead treated group. The results from the present study suggest that the increased seizure susceptibility induced by lead intoxication in rats may be mediated at least in part through the changes of thiamine status.

Thiamine and zinc in prevention or therapy of lead intoxication: Thiamine and zinc in prevention or therapy of lead intoxication - PubMed

Thiamine, zinc or their combination given through gastric gavage were investigated for their ability to prevent or treat experimental lead toxicity in rats. Simultaneous dietary supplementation with thiamine plus zinc was found to be the most effective way of reducing the lead-induced inhibition of delta-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase activity in blood, urinary, excretion of delta-aminolevulinic acid and accumulation of lead in blood, liver and kidney. Prevention was more effective than post-lead exposure treatment which may be due mainly to the decrease in the absorption of lead in the gastro-intestinal tract in the presence of thiamine and/or zinc.

Eating to Block Lead Absorption | NutritionFacts.org

Intake of certain nutrients has been associated with lower lead levels in the body. For example, women with higher intake of thiamine, also called vitamin B1, tended to have lower blood lead levels, and the same was found for lead-exposed steel workers—and not just with thiamine, as “content of dietary fiber, iron, or thiamine intake each correlated inversely with blood lead concentrations in workers…” The thinking is that the fiber might glom onto the lead and flush it out of the body, the iron would inhibit the lead absorption, and the thiamine may accelerate lead removal through the bile. So, researchers suggest that eating lots of iron, fiber and especially thiamine-rich foods “may induce rapid removal and excretion of the lead from the tissues.” But thiamine’s never been put to the test by giving it to people to see if their lead levels drop. The closest I could find is a thiamine intervention for lead-intoxicated goats.

Thiamin (vitamin B1) effects on lead intoxication and deposition of lead in tissues: Therapeutic potential

Thiamin (vitamin B1) effects on lead intoxication and deposition of lead in tissues: Therapeutic potential:

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of thiamin on lead (Pb) poisoning in cattle. Fifteen Holstein male calves were divided into three groups: Group I served as controls, Group II calves were dosed orally with 5 mg Pb acetate/day/kg of body wt, and Group III calves were dosed similarly with Pb and with 100 mg/day/calf of thiamin hydrochloride, subcutaneously. Calves were treated daily for 20 days. None of the control or Pb plus thiamin-treated calves showed clinical signs of poisoning and no deaths occurred. However, four of five Pb-treated calves showed signs of Pb poisoning and two died during the study. Tissues from both groups receiving Pb contained significantly higher (p < 0.01) concentrations of Pb than tissues from control calves. However, tissues from calves receiving Pb plus thiamin contained 2 to 10 times less Pb than tissues from calves receiving only Pb. The Pb concentrations in liver, kidney, and blood from thiamin-treated calves remained below confirmatory levels associated with Pb poisoning; while Pb concentrations in the same tissues from calves dosed only with Pb were within the range considered diagnostic of Pb poisoning. On the other hand, δ-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase activity in erythrocytes was decreased 70% from pretreatment levels in both groups receiving Pb. Thus, thiamin appeared to have no protective effect on the ability of Pb to inhibit this enzyme. But in the tissues analyzed, thiamin interacted with Pb in some way to prevent tissue accumulation, thus preventing clinical signs and death. These results suggest that therapeutic doses of thiamin may be of value in the prevention and treatment of Pb poisoning in cattle, and in other animals or humans exposed to high environmental levels of Pb.

Thiamine reduces tissue lead levels in rats: mechanism of interaction - BioMetals

Lead (Pb) toxicity has been a serious concern in industrialized societies because of its association with functional deficits in nervous, haematopoietic and renal systems. Several studies have shown beneficial effects of thiamine on Pb toxicity. It is speculated that Pb chelation by thiamine may be a possible mechanism. However, the exact nature of these interactions remained elusive. In the present study we have characterized the interaction of Pb with thiamine using UV–Vis as well as fluorescence spectroscopic methods and studied the effect of thiamine treatment on blood and tissue Pb levels during simultaneous or post-exposure to Pb in rat model. The spectroscopic studies revealed that Pb interacts with the pyrimidine ring of thiamine, leading to its solubilization at physiological pH. Further, thiamine reduced the Pb levels in blood, kidney and bone during both simultaneous and post-exposure Pb treatment. Interestingly, thiamine appears to prevent the accumulation of Pb in bone during simultaneous treatment. Together these results suggest that pyrimidine ring of thiamine mediates its interaction with Pb, leading to the prevention of its accumulation and/or increased clearance from tissues.

Chelation in metal intoxication XVIII: Combined effects of thiamine and calcium disodium versenate on dead toxicity

Chelation in metal intoxication XVIII: Combined effects of thiamine and calcium disodium versenate on dead toxicity

Calcium disodium ethylenediaminetetracetate (CaNa2EDTA; Versenate) was more effective than thiamine (vitamin B1) in enhancing the urinary excretion of lead, reducing tissue lead and restoring lead induced biochemical alterations in rats. However, the combination of CaNa2EDTA and vitamin B1 enhanced the beneficial effect of CaNa2EDTA in lead intoxication and was particularly effective in reducing the brain concentration of lead.

more: thiamine and heavy metals, including iron overload:

https://alz-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/alz.12146

quote: We hypothesize that excess iron, that is, brain iron overload (BIO), is a highly relevant pathway leading to cognitive deterioration in individuals with AUD. We further hypothesize thiamine depletion, a common concomitant feature in AUD patients, to be a key stimulus for BIO, as thiamine deficiency disrupts the integrity of the blood-brain barrier (BBB), enabling iron from the circulation to enter the brain in an uncontrolled manner.

Vitamin B1 Deficiency a Key Factor in the Development of Alcohol-Related Dementia - Neuroscience News

quote: A common consequence of chronically high alcohol consumption is a decline in cognitive function, which can even progress to full-blown dementia. However, we do not yet fully understand how alcohol damages the brain. A research group led by Stephan Listabarth from MedUni Vienna’s Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Division of Social Psychiatry, has now developed a hypothesis whereby iron deposits in the brain – resulting from alcohol-induced vitamin B1 deficiency – can be regarded as key factors in cognitive decline. The work has now been published in the leading journal “Alzheimer’s and Dementia”.

Chelation Therapy in Medicine - Hormones Matter

quote: Because of a sick cow, a farmer had called a veterinarian who had recognized the symptoms of thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency. When given an injection of the vitamin the symptoms in the cow had disappeared but they had subsequently returned and the veterinarian was asked to come again. Thinking this was a strange recurrence, the doctor had the presence of mind to search the field where the cow had been grazing. He had found an old trunk in a corner of the field that was partly covered with lead paint and which the cow had been licking. Lead has a sweet taste and the veterinarian concluded that this was the cause of the thiamine deficiency. In a study using rats, calcium disodium EDTA was more effective than thiamine in enhancing the urinary excretion of lead in restoring lead induced biochemical alterations. However, the combination of the drug and thiamine enhanced the beneficial effect and was particularly effective in reducing the brain concentration of lead.

In lead loaded sheep the combination of EDTA and thiamine administration was better than EDTA or thiamine given singly. It was concluded however that thiamine, even by itself, does increase lead excretion via bile and urine, a beneficial effect that has not been followed up since. The influence of dietary protein deficiency on the effects of exposure to lead or its combination with copper was investigated in rats.

Thiamine Saves — Mercury Free Kids

"I am adding to this list a high body burden of mercury.
Amalgam (mercury) dental fillings.

Thiamine has a sulfur molecule in it, and mercury having an affinity for sulfur will tear the Thiamine compound apart to bind with that sulfur molecule."

 

[tommyg130]

Hi again. I found my notes on heavy metals poisoning and thiamine. I'll paste it below:

thiamine and heavy metals quotes:

Thiamine (2–4 mg/kg per day, SC) alleviates clinical manifestations and reduces tissue deposition of lead. Combined Ca-EDTA and thiamine treatment appears to produce the most beneficial response. Lead Poisoning in Animals - Toxicology - Merck Veterinary Manual

Lead induced thiamine deficiency in the brain decreased the threshold of electroshock seizure in rat

Thiamine supplementation reversed these signs and decreased the brain lead concentration in the lead treated group. The results from the present study suggest that the increased seizure susceptibility induced by lead intoxication in rats may be mediated at least in part through the changes of thiamine status.

Thiamine and zinc in prevention or therapy of lead intoxication: Thiamine and zinc in prevention or therapy of lead intoxication - PubMed

Thiamine, zinc or their combination given through gastric gavage were investigated for their ability to prevent or treat experimental lead toxicity in rats. Simultaneous dietary supplementation with thiamine plus zinc was found to be the most effective way of reducing the lead-induced inhibition of delta-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase activity in blood, urinary, excretion of delta-aminolevulinic acid and accumulation of lead in blood, liver and kidney. Prevention was more effective than post-lead exposure treatment which may be due mainly to the decrease in the absorption of lead in the gastro-intestinal tract in the presence of thiamine and/or zinc.

Eating to Block Lead Absorption | NutritionFacts.org

Intake of certain nutrients has been associated with lower lead levels in the body. For example, women with higher intake of thiamine, also called vitamin B1, tended to have lower blood lead levels, and the same was found for lead-exposed steel workers—and not just with thiamine, as “content of dietary fiber, iron, or thiamine intake each correlated inversely with blood lead concentrations in workers…” The thinking is that the fiber might glom onto the lead and flush it out of the body, the iron would inhibit the lead absorption, and the thiamine may accelerate lead removal through the bile. So, researchers suggest that eating lots of iron, fiber and especially thiamine-rich foods “may induce rapid removal and excretion of the lead from the tissues.” But thiamine’s never been put to the test by giving it to people to see if their lead levels drop. The closest I could find is a thiamine intervention for lead-intoxicated goats.

Thiamin (vitamin B1) effects on lead intoxication and deposition of lead in tissues: Therapeutic potential

Thiamin (vitamin B1) effects on lead intoxication and deposition of lead in tissues: Therapeutic potential:

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of thiamin on lead (Pb) poisoning in cattle. Fifteen Holstein male calves were divided into three groups: Group I served as controls, Group II calves were dosed orally with 5 mg Pb acetate/day/kg of body wt, and Group III calves were dosed similarly with Pb and with 100 mg/day/calf of thiamin hydrochloride, subcutaneously. Calves were treated daily for 20 days. None of the control or Pb plus thiamin-treated calves showed clinical signs of poisoning and no deaths occurred. However, four of five Pb-treated calves showed signs of Pb poisoning and two died during the study. Tissues from both groups receiving Pb contained significantly higher (p < 0.01) concentrations of Pb than tissues from control calves. However, tissues from calves receiving Pb plus thiamin contained 2 to 10 times less Pb than tissues from calves receiving only Pb. The Pb concentrations in liver, kidney, and blood from thiamin-treated calves remained below confirmatory levels associated with Pb poisoning; while Pb concentrations in the same tissues from calves dosed only with Pb were within the range considered diagnostic of Pb poisoning. On the other hand, δ-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase activity in erythrocytes was decreased 70% from pretreatment levels in both groups receiving Pb. Thus, thiamin appeared to have no protective effect on the ability of Pb to inhibit this enzyme. But in the tissues analyzed, thiamin interacted with Pb in some way to prevent tissue accumulation, thus preventing clinical signs and death. These results suggest that therapeutic doses of thiamin may be of value in the prevention and treatment of Pb poisoning in cattle, and in other animals or humans exposed to high environmental levels of Pb.

Thiamine reduces tissue lead levels in rats: mechanism of interaction - BioMetals

Lead (Pb) toxicity has been a serious concern in industrialized societies because of its association with functional deficits in nervous, haematopoietic and renal systems. Several studies have shown beneficial effects of thiamine on Pb toxicity. It is speculated that Pb chelation by thiamine may be a possible mechanism. However, the exact nature of these interactions remained elusive. In the present study we have characterized the interaction of Pb with thiamine using UV–Vis as well as fluorescence spectroscopic methods and studied the effect of thiamine treatment on blood and tissue Pb levels during simultaneous or post-exposure to Pb in rat model. The spectroscopic studies revealed that Pb interacts with the pyrimidine ring of thiamine, leading to its solubilization at physiological pH. Further, thiamine reduced the Pb levels in blood, kidney and bone during both simultaneous and post-exposure Pb treatment. Interestingly, thiamine appears to prevent the accumulation of Pb in bone during simultaneous treatment. Together these results suggest that pyrimidine ring of thiamine mediates its interaction with Pb, leading to the prevention of its accumulation and/or increased clearance from tissues.

Chelation in metal intoxication XVIII: Combined effects of thiamine and calcium disodium versenate on dead toxicity

Chelation in metal intoxication XVIII: Combined effects of thiamine and calcium disodium versenate on dead toxicity

Calcium disodium ethylenediaminetetracetate (CaNa2EDTA; Versenate) was more effective than thiamine (vitamin B1) in enhancing the urinary excretion of lead, reducing tissue lead and restoring lead induced biochemical alterations in rats. However, the combination of CaNa2EDTA and vitamin B1 enhanced the beneficial effect of CaNa2EDTA in lead intoxication and was particularly effective in reducing the brain concentration of lead.

more: thiamine and heavy metals, including iron overload:

https://alz-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/alz.12146

quote: We hypothesize that excess iron, that is, brain iron overload (BIO), is a highly relevant pathway leading to cognitive deterioration in individuals with AUD. We further hypothesize thiamine depletion, a common concomitant feature in AUD patients, to be a key stimulus for BIO, as thiamine deficiency disrupts the integrity of the blood-brain barrier (BBB), enabling iron from the circulation to enter the brain in an uncontrolled manner.

Vitamin B1 Deficiency a Key Factor in the Development of Alcohol-Related Dementia - Neuroscience News

quote: A common consequence of chronically high alcohol consumption is a decline in cognitive function, which can even progress to full-blown dementia. However, we do not yet fully understand how alcohol damages the brain. A research group led by Stephan Listabarth from MedUni Vienna’s Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Division of Social Psychiatry, has now developed a hypothesis whereby iron deposits in the brain – resulting from alcohol-induced vitamin B1 deficiency – can be regarded as key factors in cognitive decline. The work has now been published in the leading journal “Alzheimer’s and Dementia”.

Chelation Therapy in Medicine - Hormones Matter

quote: Because of a sick cow, a farmer had called a veterinarian who had recognized the symptoms of thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency. When given an injection of the vitamin the symptoms in the cow had disappeared but they had subsequently returned and the veterinarian was asked to come again. Thinking this was a strange recurrence, the doctor had the presence of mind to search the field where the cow had been grazing. He had found an old trunk in a corner of the field that was partly covered with lead paint and which the cow had been licking. Lead has a sweet taste and the veterinarian concluded that this was the cause of the thiamine deficiency. In a study using rats, calcium disodium EDTA was more effective than thiamine in enhancing the urinary excretion of lead in restoring lead induced biochemical alterations. However, the combination of the drug and thiamine enhanced the beneficial effect and was particularly effective in reducing the brain concentration of lead.

In lead loaded sheep the combination of EDTA and thiamine administration was better than EDTA or thiamine given singly. It was concluded however that thiamine, even by itself, does increase lead excretion via bile and urine, a beneficial effect that has not been followed up since. The influence of dietary protein deficiency on the effects of exposure to lead or its combination with copper was investigated in rats.

Thiamine Saves — Mercury Free Kids

"I am adding to this list a high body burden of mercury.
Amalgam (mercury) dental fillings.

Thiamine has a sulfur molecule in it, and mercury having an affinity for sulfur will tear the Thiamine compound apart to bind with that sulfur molecule."

Thank you very much for this! I have ordered Thiamine mononitrate. Is that an acceptable form of b1?

 

[OliviaD]

Looking to try cypro. Can somebody educate me on dosing that works for them? I’m thinking .5-1mg twice a week and taking low dose Caber at .125mg with it for the dopamine. Or possibly another dopamine agonist. I already have caber though.

Can one have high sky serotonin from things other then SSRIS ? I never used them, but I did mess myself bad w oral steroids and I was in a very fragile /HIGH addrenaline state for a while. Then used SERMs for a while. Then trt . Then off trt. Now back to natural . Just an all around disastrous 2 years. Feeling better as time passes and the CONSTANT irritability from morning to night is fading.

Test is middle of range. Estrogen low. Prolactin high. Makes sense as I was depressed as anything. Hands would shake at times. Tremors. Light sensitive. Just extreme brain dysfunction. Living in my head. Mercury poisoning ontop of it. All my energy and thoughts hyperfocused on my symptoms. Making it worse then it already was.

I’m a 25 year old male. Interesting enough I never lost my morning wood , sex drive, semen quality. No matter where my levels were . High low didn’t matter. Extremely quick to cum though when having sex w my girlfriend because it was the only thing I looked forward to and just provided such instant stress relief. And the high prolactin id assume. Eating and sex were all I looked forward too, to desperately lower adrenaline.

My life was controlled by hormones and supplements and focusing on symptoms. A miserable existence. My nervous system was so shot I realized I needed to stop throwing supplements at it because it was just too much for my system. It’s been some months now and I’ve come a long way, and I’m on no supplements.

I suspect I have sky high serotonin built up from those 2 years of depression that cypro may help. Based on my experience if I could slowly throw in 1 supplement At this time would cypro most likely be the one ?

For those 2 years . My prog , and preg. We’re below the range not even readable low. Dhea also low. Cholesterol upwards of 400 . LDL 300. High BP. Couldnt drink liquids bc of how bloated I would get. Just a metabolic nightmare. All of this going on while not being overnight at all. Still have blood sugar issues and crave food more then I should to keep stress at bay. I’m desperately yearning to get my zest for life back the way I was before all of this.

Want to preface this that I am just asking some questions.. and making some observations . I not suggesting anything. I am so sorry you are feeling so miserable, and it seems to me that since you are so young, and it seems these problems started from using some oral steroids (do I have that right?) that you should be able to get yourself back to baseline - although it might take time.

"My life was controlled by hormones and supplements and focusing on symptoms. A miserable existence. My nervous system was so shot I realized I needed to stop throwing supplements at it because it was just too much for my system. It’s been some months now and I’ve come a long way, and I’m on no supplements."

Wow - I think you have summarized much of your problem here. I notice this general theme a lot on this forum.

Just to help me understand, what oral steroid were you using that got you messed up?

"For those 2 years . My prog , and preg. We’re below the range not even readable low. Dhea also low. Cholesterol upwards of 400 . LDL 300. High BP. Couldnt drink liquids bc of how bloated I would get. Just a metabolic nightmare. All of this going on while not being overnight at all. Still have blood sugar issues and crave food more then I should to keep stress at bay. I’m desperately yearning to get my zest for life back the way I was before all of this."

I'm a little confused here with the past and present. Are these symptoms you are having now? The cholesterol, high BP? You said "those" 2 years, so I'm not sure if this is something in the past or going on know.

One main question - I'm wondering why you would want to add a supplement/drug, when you've just mentioned that you feel that has been a part of your problem. Metabolism is so complex. What exactly are you trying to accomplish with the cypro? You mention that you think you have high serotonin levels, but do you KNOW that? I am presenting these questions for you to think about. If you are already depressed, I wouldn't take anything that would potentially lower dopamine levels, as I think it is so important for mood. If you were to try one thing based on all of your symptoms - especially the high cholesterol and BP, the obvious choice would be thyroid. High cholesterol (and yours is VERY high) - is often associated with being hypothyroid. It seems like the obvious place to start. If your thyroid isn't functioning well, nothing else will, and no matter what else you toss in - including cypro, won't do a thing if that isn't right.

There are actually disorders of cholesterol metabolism and yours is so high, it might be worthwhile to talk to a doctor about that. I like to avoid them, but sometimes we need them. Have you talked to anyone about that?

 

[OliviaD]

Looking to try cypro. Can somebody educate me on dosing that works for them? I’m thinking .5-1mg twice a week and taking low dose Caber at .125mg with it for the dopamine. Or possibly another dopamine agonist. I already have caber though.

Can one have high sky serotonin from things other then SSRIS ? I never used them, but I did mess myself bad w oral steroids and I was in a very fragile /HIGH addrenaline state for a while. Then used SERMs for a while. Then trt . Then off trt. Now back to natural . Just an all around disastrous 2 years. Feeling better as time passes and the CONSTANT irritability from morning to night is fading.

Test is middle of range. Estrogen low. Prolactin high. Makes sense as I was depressed as anything. Hands would shake at times. Tremors. Light sensitive. Just extreme brain dysfunction. Living in my head. Mercury poisoning ontop of it. All my energy and thoughts hyperfocused on my symptoms. Making it worse then it already was.

I’m a 25 year old male. Interesting enough I never lost my morning wood , sex drive, semen quality. No matter where my levels were . High low didn’t matter. Extremely quick to cum though when having sex w my girlfriend because it was the only thing I looked forward to and just provided such instant stress relief. And the high prolactin id assume. Eating and sex were all I looked forward too, to desperately lower adrenaline.

My life was controlled by hormones and supplements and focusing on symptoms. A miserable existence. My nervous system was so shot I realized I needed to stop throwing supplements at it because it was just too much for my system. It’s been some months now and I’ve come a long way, and I’m on no supplements.

I suspect I have sky high serotonin built up from those 2 years of depression that cypro may help. Based on my experience if I could slowly throw in 1 supplement At this time would cypro most likely be the one ?

For those 2 years . My prog , and preg. We’re below the range not even readable low. Dhea also low. Cholesterol upwards of 400 . LDL 300. High BP. Couldnt drink liquids bc of how bloated I would get. Just a metabolic nightmare. All of this going on while not being overnight at all. Still have blood sugar issues and crave food more then I should to keep stress at bay. I’m desperately yearning to get my zest for life back the way I was before all of this.

p.s. what is caber? It sounds like you would take that to offset the potential dopamine lowering effects of cypro.. so now you are taking something for a side effect of something.. Think about this. And your statement you made - where I think you very accurate describe a big part of your problem :)

 

[AVTISTICVS]

p.s. what is caber? It sounds like you would take that to offset the potential dopamine lowering effects of cypro.. so now you are taking something for a side effect of something.. Think about this. And your statement you made - where I think you very accurate describe a big part of your problem :)

He plans to use caber for excess prolactin. This is it’s primary purpose. Being that the prolactin is from steroids, this is the second best move. The best being going to an endocrinologist.

Cypro wont have antagonistic dopamine effects at the dosage recommended to him. Though it also wont do anything useful here in those same dosages (for now).

Serotonin imbalance is definitely a possibility but would more than likely be a downstream effect of a ****88 up HPA axis from steroids.

 

[InChristAlone]

I still argue cypro can be helpful to those running on stress hormones. The nitty gritty doesn't matter so much to me as we are a whole system not just parts.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thank you very much for this! I have ordered Thiamine mononitrate. Is that an acceptable form of b1?

I think that there are better forms? Maybe? Actually, I do not know. I haven't read much about it. Here's a study: Chemical stability and reaction kinetics of two thiamine salts (thiamine mononitrate and thiamine chloride hydrochloride) in solution - PubMed

I'm using thiamine hcl (hydrochloride). It seems to be the tried and true variety; it's been around forever and there's been a lot of studies that used it. Dr. Costantini always used it for his patients. The TTFD version is popular with Dr. Lonsdale, Dr. Marrs, and Elliot Overton but I had a bad reaction to it, probably because my glutathione level was very low. Elliot Overton said that thiamine hcl would increase glutathione and it did for me.

 

[OliviaD]

He plans to use caber for excess prolactin. This is it’s primary purpose. Being that the prolactin is from steroids, this is the second best move. The best being going to an endocrinologist.

Cypro wont have antagonistic dopamine effects at the dosage recommended to him. Though it also wont do anything useful here in those same dosages (for now).

Serotonin imbalance is definitely a possibility but would more than likely be a downstream effect of a ****88 up HPA axis from steroids.

Thank you. I'm still learning about some of the things routinely discussed by many of you, appreciate the help!
OK - re: the caber, and cypro.

I'm assuming we are talking about anabolic type steroids like bodybuilder types tend to use.. when talking re: 'steroids'. What you said is basically what I was indirectly implying by asking the questions I did of the OP. Theoretically, he could have increased serotonin, but he is also making that assumption, based on how he is feeling, which could be for many different (or multiple reasons). With the multiple symptoms he is describing, seems like there is a lot more going on. I feel like I'm missing a lot of detail. but I imagine it might also take time for his system to re-equilibrate.

What would he be using it for at the dosages suggested?

TY!

 

[OliviaD]

I still argue cypro can be helpful to those running on stress hormones. The nitty gritty doesn't matter so much to me as we are a whole system not just parts.

Interesting.
It seems paradoxical in that an anti-cholinergic drug would suppress the PS NS, which would seemingly counter the effects of running on the cortisol and adrenaline which I'm assuming you're talking about. Is it that people experience feeling better using it?

 

[golder]

I think that there are better forms? Maybe? Actually, I do not know. I haven't read much about it. Here's a study: Chemical stability and reaction kinetics of two thiamine salts (thiamine mononitrate and thiamine chloride hydrochloride) in solution - PubMed

I'm using thiamine hcl (hydrochloride). It seems to be the tried and true variety; it's been around forever and there's been a lot of studies that used it. Dr. Costantini always used it for his patients. The TTFD version is popular with Dr. Lonsdale, Dr. Marrs, and Elliot Overton but I had a bad reaction to it, probably because my glutathione level was very low. Elliot Overton said that thiamine hcl would increase glutathione and it did for me.

Just trying to work out why Elliot Overton would sing the virtues of Thiamine Hcl over TTFD when he has a dedicated TTFD supplement (called Thiamax), which he spends a lot of time posting studies on its superiority as a B1 form over the regular Hcl variety. I haven’t compared the two, but just curious..

 

[mostlylurking]

Cholesterol upwards of 400

Have you had a thyroid panel done (TSH, free T4, free T3, reverse T3)? High cholesterol points to hypothyroidism. Do you keep track of your temperature and pulse?
links: Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

The Cholesterol and Thyroid Connection – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Please note that thiamine deficiency can wreak havoc with thyroid function. Also overdosing thyroid supplements can exacerbate a thiamine deficiency. I've been dealing with both problems and learned that when I take high dose thiamine hcl I feel a whole lot better, but my endocrinologist lowered my thyroid medication because when taking the thiamine my thyroid tests showed my T3 had gone through the roof. Now I take 50% of the dose of natural desiccated thyroid that I needed before the high dose thiamine.

 

[mostlylurking]

Just trying to work out why Elliot Overton would sing the virtues of Thiamine Hcl over TTFD when he has a dedicated TTFD supplement (called Thiamax), which he spends a lot of time posting studies on its superiority as a B1 form over the regular Hcl variety. I haven’t compared the two, but just curious..

Elliot has a video about trouble shooting negative reactions to TTFD. TTFD uses glutathione to work. If you are low in it you can have a negative reaction to the TTFD; I got a raging headache that lasted 36 hours. Thiamine hcl increases glutathione so Elliot suggests using it for a while and then trying TTFD again. TTFD is supposed to get into the cell/mitochondria easier (no need for a "transporter"?) than other varieties of thiamine like the hcl kind, etc. For some people this is really helpful. I did so well on the thiamine hcl that I never tried the TTFD again. Thiamine hcl dissolved in water tastes pretty horrible but it's better than the 36 hour long headache.

 

[InChristAlone]

Interesting.
It seems paradoxical in that an anti-cholinergic drug would suppress the PS NS, which would seemingly counter the effects of running on the cortisol and adrenaline which I'm assuming you're talking about. Is it that people experience feeling better using it?

Yes. I know of people who were the high adrenaline type couldn't gain weight, very thin, struggled with eating and then after a long course of it completely changed their life, less anxious, well fed, good physique.

 

[OliviaD]

Yes. I know of people who were the high adrenaline type couldn't gain weight, very thin, struggled with eating and then after a long course of it completely changed their life, less anxious, well fed, good physique.

Thank you.
I read that weight gain is a side effect and if has been used sometimes specifically for that purpose - in humans as well as cats :) , according to my reading.
Well, if someone could have their life completely changed for the better - can't argue with that.

 

[AVTISTICVS]

Appetite is from 5HT2C antagonism

 

[OliviaD]

Elliot has a video about trouble shooting negative reactions to TTFD. TTFD uses glutathione to work. If you are low in it you can have a negative reaction to the TTFD; I got a raging headache that lasted 36 hours. Thiamine hcl increases glutathione so Elliot suggests using it for a while and then trying TTFD again. TTFD is supposed to get into the cell/mitochondria easier (no need for a "transporter"?) than other varieties of thiamine like the hcl kind, etc. For some people this is really helpful. I did so well on the thiamine hcl that I never tried the TTFD again. Thiamine hcl dissolved in water tastes pretty horrible but it's better than the 36 hour long headache.

It is interesting that I read in many forums/comment sections that people get great results with plain old B1 Hcl - like their "M.S" like and Parkinsonian symptoms disappear! However, others have different experiences and therapeutically, the fat soluble forms (of which TTFD is only one) should work better therapeutically. I say do whatever works and wow - decreasing your need for thyroid by that much is huge!

I ordered some of Elliot Overton's product a couple of years ago, and while it didn't give me negative effects, it didn't help what I hoped (GI issues) . It might not be the best form. I also tried sulbutamine, and same thing. I possibly am not patient enough and not sure about the doses I am using and the quality of what I am buying (which can always be an issue).

I have just started trying again with B1 Hcl - and interesting - because it gives me awful headaches. I'm assuming I should ramp my way up, however it seems one has to get up pretty high in the 1-2 G range to have therapeutic effect. I have 500 mg capsules (just happened to have, that supposedly have no excipients). I dump out half (which is 250 mg give or take my eyeballing error). Here is a really good review article re: B1 with a little bit on the different forms. It seems like the Parkinson's community is very knowledgable re: B1 supplements, so I've been reading there to learn. It seems like theoretically , the fat soluble forms should work better, but I find life does not always agree with theory.

I do wonder what the mechanism is for the headaches. I think I might have to go back to really tiny doses, and might consider a fat soluble form.

Biological Properties of Vitamins of the B-Complex, Part 1: Vitamins B1, B2, B3, and B5 - PubMed

This review summarizes the current knowledge on essential vitamins B₁, B₂, B₃, and B₅. These B-complex vitamins must be taken from diet, with the exception of vitamin B₃, that can also be synthetized from amino acid tryptophan. All of these...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[golder]

Appetite is from 5HT2C antagonism

Do you know any Peaty compounds that antagonise 5HTT2C receptor other than cyproheptadine?

 

[mostlylurking]

It is interesting that I read in many forums/comment sections that people get great results with plain old B1 Hcl - like their "M.S" like and Parkinsonian symptoms disappear! However, others have different experiences and therapeutically, the fat soluble forms (of which TTFD is only one) should work better therapeutically. I say do whatever works and wow - decreasing your need for thyroid by that much is huge!

October of 2020, my thiamine function was blocked from the Bactrim antibiotic debacle (took it July of 2020) and I felt like hell. I had been trying some thiamine but not very high doses. I got my thyroid bloodwork done 2 months early (it's done every 6 months) because I felt so hypothyroid (erratic pulse, low temp, brain fog, no energy) I thought my prescription natural desiccated thyroid was a bad batch. When the lab results came back, my free T3 was through the roof and my endo doctor freaked out about it and lowered my dose by 25%. My T3 was out of range high while I had classic hypothyroid symptoms. Both my endo and my regular GP told me that taking too much thyroid med (=hyperthyroidism) causes thiamine deficiency. But I had no hyperthyroid symptoms; just the opposite.

The endo doctor knew I was trying high dose thiamine and he was mildly interested as he had lost a couple of patients to Parkinson's Disease recently. He said to keep him posted about my experience with it. I got a lot better in February when I started taking the 2 grams/day; in May, the endo lowered my thyroid med again, to 50% of what I was taking the year before. I'm doing well now on that dose + the thiamine hcl.

It took me from October 1, 2020 to February 1, 2021 to get my dose of thiamine up to 1 gram 2Xday. That is when I started seeing some amazing improvement with things like my digestive tract.

I ordered some of Elliot Overton's product a couple of years ago, and while it didn't give me negative effects, it didn't help what I hoped (GI issues) . It might not be the best form. I also tried sulbutamine, and same thing. I possibly am not patient enough and not sure about the doses I am using and the quality of what I am buying (which can always be an issue).

I have a memory of Ray Peat saying that he preferred the older version of thiamine (hcl?) to the new fangled laboratory designer varieties. But now I can't find that quote so maybe I've remembered that wrong?

Dr. Costantini said (on his website HDT Therapy) that you should not have any negative effects from taking thiamine hcl. He said that he would rarely have someone react badly to the 2grams/day and when that happened he would stop the treatment for a week and then try again with half the dose. Dr. Costantini did not encourage his patients to take additional supplements with the thiamine. He said perhaps taking 75mg of magnesium once a week would be OK but people should be careful not to upset their digestion with too much magnesium.

After being on thiamine hcl for several weeks I played around with taking more magnesium. I was getting some relief from the cramping spasms in my feet and hands via soaking in epsom salts so I was pretty sure I needed more magnesium. I tested amounts of magnesium out and even a few grams didn't cause any issue but my chiroprator seemed alarmed about that so I backed off and settled on 1/2 teas. of magnesium glycinate 2Xday, which equals about 600mg of magnesium/day. I think you have to sort of feel your way through this. It's going to take some time. It's important to listen to your body.

I have just started trying again with B1 Hcl - and interesting - because it gives me awful headaches. I'm assuming I should ramp my way up, however it seems one has to get up pretty high in the 1-2 G range to have therapeutic effect. I have 500 mg capsules (just happened to have, that supposedly have no excipients). I dump out half (which is 250 mg give or take my eyeballing error). Here is a really good review article re: B1 with a little bit on the different forms. It seems like the Parkinson's community is very knowledgable re: B1 supplements, so I've been reading there to learn. It seems like theoretically , the fat soluble forms should work better, but I find life does not always agree with theory.

Please read Dr. Costantini's Therapy page (linked above) and also read through his papers here: Published Study Articles The FAQs are helpful too: FAQ The videos are very interesting too: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu

The fat soluble thiamine is supposed to help you if you have "transporter" problems which are supposed to keep the thiamine from getting into the cell. But it seems to me that the fancy versions can open up other problems. Here's an article I found yesterday about it:
Paradoxical Reactions With TTFD: The Methylation Connection - Hormones Matter The more I read about the new/improved/fancy versions of thiamine the more I'm inclined to stick with Dr. Costantini and thiamine hcl. I should add that Ray Peat doesn't believe in trying to increase methylation. That said, I think that if you are having negative reactions to thiamine hcl that you should go very slowly and not "ramp up" too fast. It is not supposed to cause any negative effects.

I do wonder what the mechanism is for the headaches. I think I might have to go back to really tiny doses, and might consider a fat soluble form.

My initial thought was maybe you need some magnesium? Taking some niacinamide and some riboflavin seemed to help me. I've settled on taking about 90mg of each 4xday. Perhaps a b-complex would be helpful?