Combating Elevated Cortisol & Histamine Resulting From Jogging & Sprinting

[theDao]

Hello Ray Peat community.

I am seeking advice on how to prevent elevated stress as a result of exercise, such as jogging at the track, sprinting, and calisthenics on the pull up bar, in an effort to safely lose body fat and build strength. I came to the conclusion that cortisol and histamine must be contributing to my symptoms post exercise after performing the same exercises for 4-5 months during summer. I lost about 15 pounds, mostly fat, and some hair.

My exercise takes place in the afternoon and lasts about 30-45 minutes, in sunlight. I load up on about 20-30 grams of carbs, preferably sugars, and caffeine, prior to hitting the track always. My calisthenics involves about 100-150 pull-ups, and 100 push-ups, 2-3x a week. Track involved jogging/sprinting up to 5km, 3-4x a week.

Post exercise, I take cyproheptadine to stop histamine and serotonin, and regenerate with about 60 grams of carbs.

Observations during exercise:
Itching head/scalp - most likely a result of histamine levels rising?
Dark circles under eyes, especially during an intense run/workout - do not know why, loss of oxygenated blood?

Observations during 4-5 months exercise:
Fat loss, about 15 pounds
Hair loss - why? an indication of high cortisol?
Elevated testosterone, increased strength capacity

Observations after stopping exercise, during winter:
Hair loss has stopped

Has anyone had good results with other supplementation, such as the kind from idealabs? What about foods before exercising?


Your advice is greatly appreciated, and may benefit others.

 

[EIRE24]

What does your diet look like?

 

[theDao]

I do not count calories, but I gauge my intake to about 3000 calories of food, daily. Including gelatin, red meat, chicken, liver, orange juice, coke, a lot of coffee, sugar, salt, cheese, whole or skim milk, eggs, especially yolks, white rice, potatoes, noodles, apples, bananas, butter, coconut oil, and little to no PUFA - not all in one day of course, but throughout the week, these are the staple foods I will eat.

I also supplement with vitamin K, vitamin E, aspirin, methylene blue, red light, and recently started Tyromix at night, consistently.

 

[Elize]

A lot of foods you are having are on the high histamine list. Cheese, all meats, fish, orange juice, milk, coffee etc

 

[yeggim]

Scale back. Why not decrease reps with weighted exercises. Weighted pull ups, weighted dips?
Some protein an hour before workout.
Caffeine after not before workout.
Baking soda in water during workout.
Forget the jogging. 3x5 reps heavy dead lifts then sprints.
Extra B1 after workout with meal.

The reason I would switch to weights is when you get to those 100 rep ranges you're building muscle endurance more than muscle size.

As far as supplements, I haven't found anything better than baking soda and creatine for recovery.
Baking soda is king for mitigating DOMS and is ergogenic to boot.

 

[Kvothe]

If only there was a substance that lowers both histamine and cortisol...

Cyproheptadine - Liquid Serotonin Antagonist For Lab/R&D

 

[Velve921]

I do not count calories, but I gauge my intake to about 3000 calories of food, daily. Including gelatin, red meat, chicken, liver, orange juice, coke, a lot of coffee, sugar, salt, cheese, whole or skim milk, eggs, especially yolks, white rice, potatoes, noodles, apples, bananas, butter, coconut oil, and little to no PUFA - not all in one day of course, but throughout the week, these are the staple foods I will eat.

I also supplement with vitamin K, vitamin E, aspirin, methylene blue, red light, and recently started Tyromix at night, consistently.

be mindful that you are consuming a lot of starch; in working with pro athletes most of them were chronic starch eaters. Once they replaced starch with fruits and sweet potato (still some starch but much less) stress went down.

Also, if you haven’t tried yet, yuh might want to experiment with insoluble fiber such as raw carrot or white button mushrooms.

If cortisol/histamine is high, you may want to read up more on theanine. Haidut has posted a lot of good info on the forum. In my experience, theanine is the only supplement that stopped my panic attacks after a loss in my family. No other supplement I’ve ever tried has even come close to reducing stress such as this.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Observations during exercise:
Itching head/scalp - most likely a result of histamine levels rising?
Dark circles under eyes, especially during an intense run/workout - do not know why, loss of oxygenated blood?

Itching is due to underactive thyroid and lymphatic stagnation of the head.

Dark circles under the eyes correlate with kidney weakness. The kidneys are also the primary gateway for lymphatic flow.

I've heard that in accordance with traditional Chinese medicine, the kidneys are associated with strength. It's not surprising that they would be further weakened during exercise whenever they're already being put under such a heavy acidic load given your diet that you listed... The caffeine pre-workout is just icing on the cake as it promotes an adrenaline response that defers blood away from the acidic filtration organs & systems.

 

[gaze]

be mindful that you are consuming a lot of starch; in working with pro athletes most of them were chronic starch eaters. Once they replaced starch with fruits and sweet potato (still some starch but much less) stress went down.

Also, if you haven’t tried yet, yuh might want to experiment with insoluble fiber such as raw carrot or white button mushrooms.

If cortisol/histamine is high, you may want to read up more on theanine. Haidut has posted a lot of good info on the forum. In my experience, theanine is the only supplement that stopped my panic attacks after a loss in my family. No other supplement I’ve ever tried has even come close to reducing stress such as this.

except the majority of the most successful athletes in the world eat starch. you can’t refill muscle glycogen as well with fruit because the anabolic effects of insulin are crucial for muscle recovery.

 

[theDao]

Wow. Thank you for all the valuable information. Please allow me some time to respond.

 

[Flash]

Scale back. Why not decrease reps with weighted exercises. Weighted pull ups, weighted dips?
Some protein an hour before workout.
Caffeine after not before workout.
Baking soda in water during workout.
Forget the jogging. 3x5 reps heavy dead lifts then sprints.
Extra B1 after workout with meal.

Why Caffeine after and not before workout? Curious to know, I just reintroduced it back into my diet.

 

[theDao]

A lot of foods you are having are on the high histamine list. Cheese, all meats, fish, orange juice, milk, coffee etc

With the exception of fish, are these not staple foods of Ray Peat? If carefully selected, do they not promote thyroid function? I have heard nothing but positive information, especially for sweet orange juice which lowers the the level of stress and inflammation.

Ray Peat PhD, quotes on Naringenin:

“Orange juice contains the antiinflammatory chemicals naringin and naringenin, which protect against endotoxin by suppressing the formation of nitric oxide and prostaglandins (Shiratori, et al., 2005).”

“Orange juice contains naringenin which is effective against melanoma, and guavas contain apigenin, also effective. A diet consisting of milk, orange juice, guavas, cheese, and some eggs, liver, and oysters, with aspirin would be protective against the spread of the tumor.”

So, wouldn't orange juice be especially beneficial after exercising to counteract the rising cortisol and restore depleted glycogen?

What do you eat/drink/supplement?

 

[Elize]

Citrus are all high histamine and people with low levels of DAO will have problems. I struggled with restless legs for 5 years no medicine or anything else helped. Soon after adopting a low histamine diet did it stop. Peating is a very high histamine diet.

 

[theDao]

Scale back. Why not decrease reps with weighted exercises. Weighted pull ups, weighted dips?
Some protein an hour before workout.
Caffeine after not before workout.
Baking soda in water during workout.
Forget the jogging. 3x5 reps heavy dead lifts then sprints.
Extra B1 after workout with meal.

The reason I would switch to weights is when you get to those 100 rep ranges you're building muscle endurance more than muscle size.

As far as supplements, I haven't found anything better than baking soda and creatine for recovery.
Baking soda is king for mitigating DOMS and is ergogenic to boot.

I appreciate you considering weights, as I have primarily worked out with machines and barbells years ago. I switched to calisthenics for the past ~5 years, and started using Peat's advise ~3 years ago. Like Joe Rogan said, all you really need is your body and push-ups, pull-ups, and squats, done correctly.

I could try weighted calisthenics, definitely. I'd like to see what difference this will make overall. Would weights not increase cortisol level? - physical stress exerted on the body would be increased? I was trying to increase strength and rep amount. And I have increased both. For example, I started with 20-30 reps max for the pull-up, and have managed to pump out beyond 100 during exercise. I could feel my strength improve greatly.

My main goal however was to lose body fat. I have a decent amount of fat tissue especially around my stomache, chest, and back. I believe that in order to lose 10-20 more lbs. of fat, I would need to run/sprint at the track. The question is, how can I do this safely so that cortisol doesn't destroy my hair and body.

I could try 20-25 grams of naked casein, with some milk, before the workout. Why caffeine after? I have not thought of using baking soda.

I will look into and try it.

Thanks

 

[theDao]

If only there was a substance that lowers both histamine and cortisol...

Cyproheptadine - Liquid Serotonin Antagonist For Lab/R&D

I forgot to mention, I have been using cyproheptadine, and recently metergoline. 1-2 drops of cyproheptadine after the workout to try to counteract the increased cortisol & histamine. I did not notice any visible results though.

Would you suggest using cypro before? Have you had success with cypro, metergoline, lisuride, or any other supplements? What time of day do you use it?

 

[redsun]

Hello Ray Peat community.

I am seeking advice on how to prevent elevated stress as a result of exercise, such as jogging at the track, sprinting, and calisthenics on the pull up bar, in an effort to safely lose body fat and build strength. I came to the conclusion that cortisol and histamine must be contributing to my symptoms post exercise after performing the same exercises for 4-5 months during summer. I lost about 15 pounds, mostly fat, and some hair.

My exercise takes place in the afternoon and lasts about 30-45 minutes, in sunlight. I load up on about 20-30 grams of carbs, preferably sugars, and caffeine, prior to hitting the track always. My calisthenics involves about 100-150 pull-ups, and 100 push-ups, 2-3x a week. Track involved jogging/sprinting up to 5km, 3-4x a week.

Post exercise, I take cyproheptadine to stop histamine and serotonin, and regenerate with about 60 grams of carbs.

Observations during exercise:
Itching head/scalp - most likely a result of histamine levels rising?
Dark circles under eyes, especially during an intense run/workout - do not know why, loss of oxygenated blood?

Observations during 4-5 months exercise:
Fat loss, about 15 pounds
Hair loss - why? an indication of high cortisol?
Elevated testosterone, increased strength capacity

Observations after stopping exercise, during winter:
Hair loss has stopped

Has anyone had good results with other supplementation, such as the kind from idealabs? What about foods before exercising?


Your advice is greatly appreciated, and may benefit others.

I have no idea on whether you are a truly high histamine or low histamine individual, but if you are actually high histamine, you can sharply increase intake of copper and vitamin C from food and eat foods higher in methionine and that will lower histamine. I really don't think its a good idea though to do that though but better than taking cypro. Histamine helps keep you lean (among many other important functions) and lowering it too much will make it easy to get fat or in your case regain fat. If you actually want to lower histamine do it the natural way as I described.

Carb intake is the obvious way to reduce cortisol response, I don't personally think its a good idea to blunt the natural stress response to exercise with medicine.

 

[theDao]

be mindful that you are consuming a lot of starch; in working with pro athletes most of them were chronic starch eaters. Once they replaced starch with fruits and sweet potato (still some starch but much less) stress went down.

Also, if you haven’t tried yet, yuh might want to experiment with insoluble fiber such as raw carrot or white button mushrooms.

If cortisol/histamine is high, you may want to read up more on theanine. Haidut has posted a lot of good info on the forum. In my experience, theanine is the only supplement that stopped my panic attacks after a loss in my family. No other supplement I’ve ever tried has even come close to reducing stress such as this.

Foods like white potatoes and white rice are a staple for me- but I can try cutting it down by half, and replacing it with sugar or eat foods like sourdough bread that have a slower glycemic response.

I am a fan of raw carrots. I think eating them in the mornings could help filter out gut serotonin that can accumulate

I will read up on theanine. I am a fan of Haidut's supplements

Thanks

 

[Constatine]

I'd say one of your problems is jogging. Jogging can be very bad for your health and chronically spike stress hormones. It doesn't look like your jogs are very long (short jogs are fine or even beneficial) but it is something to watch for. Sprinting can be great for you if not overdone. If you are sprinting 5km that is very much overkill. A good sprint session should only take about 20 minutes with plenty of rest in between sprints. HIIT style sprints will burn a lot more fat than jogging will without the adrenal burnout. You should generally feel good after a workout. If you are exhausted and feel terrible after working out then your probably overdoing it.

 

[Kvothe]

I forgot to mention, I have been using cyproheptadine, and recently metergoline. 1-2 drops of cyproheptadine after the workout to try to counteract the increased cortisol & histamine. I did not notice any visible results though.

Would you suggest using cypro before? Have you had success with cypro, metergoline, lisuride, or any other supplements? What time of day do you use it?

Yes, I have had very good results with it. I take 1 mg in the morning with BF, and 2-3 mg at night.

 

[Elize]

Cypro interacts with Levothyroxine. Will it not make one more hypothyroid?