19 year old male: insomnia, water retention, depression and suicidal thoughts (blood work, labs included)

redsun

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You know its funny how you guys will look at this thread and start blaming acetylcholine for this. As if you genuinely think this kid would not be suicidal if he didnt eat eggs. Reminder of where this kid was coming from. Severe problems stemming from childhood, trauma and orthorexia due to body dysmorphia. Raw vegan in the growing stages of his life (15 years old) for 1.5 years which triggered food intolerances. Keto, carnivore eating with intermittent fasting (starvation) also in his teenage years. My guess is that he was a very avid dairy avoider for most of his teenage years. Doubt he ate dairy during keto and obviously not during raw veganism. So we are definitely looking at possible calcification in his joints causing pain due to chronically high PTH levels due to years of constant dairy avoidance especially during a time where the bones need more calcium to grow.

Severe swelling all over the body due to chronic malnutrition causing low androgens, high basal cortisol and aldosterone due to his orthorexic diet history causing him to retain fluids excessively. And this is just PTH due to lack of calcium we are talking about. There are so many other issues caused by his severely low intake of several important key nutrients due to his orthorexic diet of meat and honey and his past keto and raw veganism dieting and who knows what else.

Our ancestors when they hunted big game would easily eat grams of choline in a single sitting due to the very high content of choline of organ meats which is what they went for first. Even now in modern times we still have people eating tons of eggs nowadays, especially for bodybuilding, powerlifting purposes. Why were our ancestors not extremely suicidal to the point where I would definitely say the human race currently should not be here right now if that was the case. Why are these modern day heavy choline consumers which are mostly strongman and bodybuilders not extremely suicidal?

Not only are they not prone to suicide or depression, some of these guys who ended up in elite competitions got there because they are extremely competitive, self-motivated, driven, despite their choline intake which according to the below basic understanding of many here, should not be the case. Their dopamine activity in the brain should be in the abyss because according to some of you lot even a little choline makes you all depressed. Some I have seen are not even hitting RDA intakes and after just an egg or two you suddenly are depressed? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Why suddenly can we not even tolerate a little choline while in ancient times and even now many in modern times eat grams of choline regularly?

Of course I have some biochemical theories on why some people cannot tolerate choline and why they are prone to depression from choline despite the fact that they may not even be hitting RDA intakes. But in this case biochemical explanations are not important. There is a theory that I got from somewhere else which makes even more sense. Its psychological in nature.

One thing acetylcholine does is increases our self-awareness. This is through its own effects and also through its ability to increase the firing of the other excitatory neurotransmitters because it generally potentiates glutamate which, being the major excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS, increases the activity of the CNS as a whole. I can see clearly what happened here. Its not just acetylcholine related. Its about self-awareness. OP has been living off a very inadequate diet (whether it eas meat and honey, or veganism or whatever else) for a very long time. This in turn leads to a survival state where the brain is no longer concerned with higher-order human thought and self-awareness and emotional processing.

OP unconsciously was able to shove all his trauma and other mental problems down because of self-induced malnutrition. In other words, he was able to significantly numb himself to deep rooted issues because of how poorly he ate. Except it didnt really work in the end. In the end the body eventually just falls apart from malnutrition. He could never sleep at night, he had constant pain, severe fatigue, zero libido and sex drive, digestive issues. All the while he was expecting he could recover in time for boxing classes. Think just how hard he has been trying to ignore his mental issues for so long to get to this state.

And the next thing that happens he comes here, gets some advice from me and a few others, starts eating more whole foods and variety. Suddenly he can sleep easily and all the time. His body finally shut down from the stress somewhat so he could sleep and start the process of regeneration. He is basically on track to improve his health again.

I dont think you all realize how little self-awareness he must have had barely sleeping and barely eating for so long. You wouldnt know unless you experienced the same situation where you deal with chronic insomnia and undereating. Of course he was not outwardly depressed, thats because his brain lacked the capacity to make him aware of his problems. And then ALL these emotional and mental problems come surging back into his conscious awareness as soon as he started eating better and sleeping enough because as the body heals, the brain starts working better again trying to force him to deal with his emotional problems and trauma so he can move forward in his life because his self-awareness and consciousness comes back online. This has been a cycle he has been going through for his whole teenage life probably. Avoiding these kinds of problems whether through starving yourself or taking drugs to numb you out not only can lead to deep depression, but also anxiety, panic disorders, PTSD, addictive behaviors, and also body pains and autonomic dysfunction.

He refuses to accept himself and love himself despite how he looks and all the trauma he has faced, then he starves himself, awareness of the problem dulls and he can go about life with less depression and negative feelings because he doesnt have to face his issues when his body is malnourished. This is my major theory on why choline or just eating better and properly in general can actually end up causing depression in people. Even a little bit extra choline. Ask yourself, what deep rooted issue have you managed to bury for so long that you refuse to deal with? Why do you think so black and white about a singular neurotransmitter, of which if you had none of, you would be dead. Ray through his articles has unfortunately caused many users here to adopt this black and white attitude with acetylcholine which is very wrong and harmful.

What can OP do to get out of this rut he is in? Accept himself and practice self-love so he can begin to process everything he has been avoiding. No one can help at this point like he can help himself by loving himself. Of course its not fair the way he was brought up. Even though its not his fault, it is definitely his problem and only he can solve it.

He is not alone in his suffering. Many suffer constantly through their teenage years and those who survive are the ones who accept and love themselves. Not only can he survive, he can thrive. He has so much time. If he only forgives himself and stops being so hard on himself, he can get through this. But the only way out is through. I would say good luck to OP, but he doesn't need luck. He has everything he needs to get through this all on his own and come out better than before. He just has to believe in himself. Personally I am not worried about him. I am confident he will conquer this.
 

BlackMolasses

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You know its funny how you guys will look at this thread and start blaming acetylcholine for this. As if you genuinely think this kid would not be suicidal if he didnt eat eggs. Reminder of where this kid was coming from. Severe problems stemming from childhood, trauma and orthorexia due to body dysmorphia. Raw vegan in the growing stages of his life (15 years old) for 1.5 years which triggered food intolerances. Keto, carnivore eating with intermittent fasting (starvation) also in his teenage years. My guess is that he was a very avid dairy avoider for most of his teenage years. Doubt he ate dairy during keto and obviously not during raw veganism. So we are definitely looking at possible calcification in his joints causing pain due to chronically high PTH levels due to years of constant dairy avoidance especially during a time where the bones need more calcium to grow.

Severe swelling all over the body due to chronic malnutrition causing low androgens, high basal cortisol and aldosterone due to his orthorexic diet history causing him to retain fluids excessively. And this is just PTH due to lack of calcium we are talking about. There are so many other issues caused by his severely low intake of several important key nutrients due to his orthorexic diet of meat and honey and his past keto and raw veganism dieting and who knows what else.

Our ancestors when they hunted big game would easily eat grams of choline in a single sitting due to the very high content of choline of organ meats which is what they went for first. Even now in modern times we still have people eating tons of eggs nowadays, especially for bodybuilding, powerlifting purposes. Why were our ancestors not extremely suicidal to the point where I would definitely say the human race currently should not be here right now if that was the case. Why are these modern day heavy choline consumers which are mostly strongman and bodybuilders not extremely suicidal?

Not only are they not prone to suicide or depression, some of these guys who ended up in elite competitions got there because they are extremely competitive, self-motivated, driven, despite their choline intake which according to the below basic understanding of many here, should not be the case. Their dopamine activity in the brain should be in the abyss because according to some of you lot even a little choline makes you all depressed. Some I have seen are not even hitting RDA intakes and after just an egg or two you suddenly are depressed? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Why suddenly can we not even tolerate a little choline while in ancient times and even now many in modern times eat grams of choline regularly?

Of course I have some biochemical theories on why some people cannot tolerate choline and why they are prone to depression from choline despite the fact that they may not even be hitting RDA intakes. But in this case biochemical explanations are not important. There is a theory that I got from somewhere else which makes even more sense. Its psychological in nature.

One thing acetylcholine does is increases our self-awareness. This is through its own effects and also through its ability to increase the firing of the other excitatory neurotransmitters because it generally potentiates glutamate which, being the major excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS, increases the activity of the CNS as a whole. I can see clearly what happened here. Its not just acetylcholine related. Its about self-awareness. OP has been living off a very inadequate diet (whether it eas meat and honey, or veganism or whatever else) for a very long time. This in turn leads to a survival state where the brain is no longer concerned with higher-order human thought and self-awareness and emotional processing.

OP unconsciously was able to shove all his trauma and other mental problems down because of self-induced malnutrition. In other words, he was able to significantly numb himself to deep rooted issues because of how poorly he ate. Except it didnt really work in the end. In the end the body eventually just falls apart from malnutrition. He could never sleep at night, he had constant pain, severe fatigue, zero libido and sex drive, digestive issues. All the while he was expecting he could recover in time for boxing classes. Think just how hard he has been trying to ignore his mental issues for so long to get to this state.

And the next thing that happens he comes here, gets some advice from me and a few others, starts eating more whole foods and variety. Suddenly he can sleep easily and all the time. His body finally shut down from the stress somewhat so he could sleep and start the process of regeneration. He is basically on track to improve his health again.

I dont think you all realize how little self-awareness he must have had barely sleeping and barely eating for so long. You wouldnt know unless you experienced the same situation where you deal with chronic insomnia and undereating. Of course he was not outwardly depressed, thats because his brain lacked the capacity to make him aware of his problems. And then ALL these emotional and mental problems come surging back into his conscious awareness as soon as he started eating better and sleeping enough because as the body heals, the brain starts working better again trying to force him to deal with his emotional problems and trauma so he can move forward in his life because his self-awareness and consciousness comes back online. This has been a cycle he has been going through for his whole teenage life probably. Avoiding these kinds of problems whether through starving yourself or taking drugs to numb you out not only can lead to deep depression, but also anxiety, panic disorders, PTSD, addictive behaviors, and also body pains and autonomic dysfunction.

He refuses to accept himself and love himself despite how he looks and all the trauma he has faced, then he starves himself, awareness of the problem dulls and he can go about life with less depression and negative feelings because he doesnt have to face his issues when his body is malnourished. This is my major theory on why choline or just eating better and properly in general can actually end up causing depression in people. Even a little bit extra choline. Ask yourself, what deep rooted issue have you managed to bury for so long that you refuse to deal with? Why do you think so black and white about a singular neurotransmitter, of which if you had none of, you would be dead. Ray through his articles has unfortunately caused many users here to adopt this black and white attitude with acetylcholine which is very wrong and harmful.

What can OP do to get out of this rut he is in? Accept himself and practice self-love so he can begin to process everything he has been avoiding. No one can help at this point like he can help himself by loving himself. Of course its not fair the way he was brought up. Even though its not his fault, it is definitely his problem and only he can solve it.

He is not alone in his suffering. Many suffer constantly through their teenage years and those who survive are the ones who accept and love themselves. Not only can he survive, he can thrive. He has so much time. If he only forgives himself and stops being so hard on himself, he can get through this. But the only way out is through. I would say good luck to OP, but he doesn't need luck. He has everything he needs to get through this all on his own and come out better than before. He just has to believe in himself. Personally I am not worried about him. I am confident he will conquer this.
You are a very intelligent and altruistic person, thank you for your involvement.
 

InChristAlone

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Hey @redsun I never vilified eggs. I am going based off the information I researched on acetylcholine which isn't necessarily increased by dietary choline unless supplements are given. Learned helplessness does involve the cholinergic system as Peat suggests so boosting choline could theoretically cause suicide in someone who is already hopeless. We need to be careful here. Just because you conquered doesn't mean everyone will, I know what it's like to feel helpless and like I will never get better I never had suicidal thoughts because I have a purpose on this earth but someone who doesn't have anything to look forward to or have any purpose I could see this high acetylcholine condition to be deadly. All of sudden realizing everything that is wrong with him is probably horrifying. He has deep deep toxic shame. Toxic shame is the worst thing anyone can go through. You don't just feel bad you feel like your entire being is worthless. To feel that level of worthlessness is not something we can handle. He needs to be able to handle the changes. Slowly adding back in certains foods would be more wise. He went full throttle eating 6 eggs and liver on top of that. I can't even imagine how he feels right now. In recovery of anorexia calories are slowly increased, some people can handle going from low to high because they awaken their appetite quickly but many cannot. He started a form of recovery but the changes he is experiencing to his body are unbearable. So anyway, not villifying eggs, not even villifying acetylcholine we need it. Cyproheptadine is a crutch that allows those who have been undereating to be able to make the changes they need to recover. Sometimes a crutch is necessary. Our nervous system does not allow pushing past a certain level of pain and suffering.
 

InChristAlone

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I also want to say it is good to work on loving yourself and working on releasing all that shame. It's the toxic shame that causes the learned helplessness and then that causes depression and probably a greater sensitivity to acetylcholine than most people. Addiction is the result. Nathan Hatch figured out that's what causes alcoholism. I'm unsure how it relates to nicotine addiction because it is a acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. So theoretically if he is desiring more acetylcholine then nicotine would be the cure which clearly didn't happen.
 
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“Curt Richter already in 1957 had described the "hopelessness" phenomenon in rats (“a reaction of hopelessness is shown by some wild rats very soon after being grasped in the hand and prevented from moving. They seem literally to give up,”) and even how to cure their hopelessness, by allowing them to have an experience of escaping once (Richter, 1957, 1958). Rats which would normally be able to keep swimming in a tank for two or three days, would often give up and drown in just a few minutes, after having an experience of "inescapable stress." Richter made the important discovery that the hearts of the hopeless rats slowed down before they died, remaining relaxed and filled with blood, revealing the dominant activity of the vagal nerve, secreting acetylcholine.

The sympathetic nervous system (secreting noradrenaline) accelerates the heart, and is usually activated in stress, in the "fight or flight" reaction, but this radically different (parasympathetic) nervous activity hadn't previously been seen to occur in stressful situations. The parasympathetic, cholinergic, nervous system had been thought of as inactive during stress, and activated to regulate processes of digestion, sleep, and repair. Besides the cholinergic nerves of the parasympathetic system, many nerves of the central nervous system also secrete acetylcholine, which activates smooth muscles, skeletal muscles, glands, and other nerves, and also has some inhibitory effects. The parasympathetic nerves also secrete the enzyme, cholinesterase, which destroys acetylcholine. However, many other types of cell (red blood cells, fibroblasts, sympathetic nerves, marrow cells), maybe all cells, can secrete cholinesterase.

Because cholinergic nerves have been opposed to the sympathetic, adrenergic, nerves, there has been a tendency to neglect their nerve exciting roles, when looking at causes of excitotoxicity, or the stress-induced loss of brain cells. Excessive cholinergic stimulation, however, can contribute to excitotoxic cell death, for example when it's combined with high cortisol and/or hypoglycemia.“ -Ray Peat
 

InChristAlone

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“Curt Richter already in 1957 had described the "hopelessness" phenomenon in rats (“a reaction of hopelessness is shown by some wild rats very soon after being grasped in the hand and prevented from moving. They seem literally to give up,”) and even how to cure their hopelessness, by allowing them to have an experience of escaping once (Richter, 1957, 1958). Rats which would normally be able to keep swimming in a tank for two or three days, would often give up and drown in just a few minutes, after having an experience of "inescapable stress." Richter made the important discovery that the hearts of the hopeless rats slowed down before they died, remaining relaxed and filled with blood, revealing the dominant activity of the vagal nerve, secreting acetylcholine.

The sympathetic nervous system (secreting noradrenaline) accelerates the heart, and is usually activated in stress, in the "fight or flight" reaction, but this radically different (parasympathetic) nervous activity hadn't previously been seen to occur in stressful situations. The parasympathetic, cholinergic, nervous system had been thought of as inactive during stress, and activated to regulate processes of digestion, sleep, and repair. Besides the cholinergic nerves of the parasympathetic system, many nerves of the central nervous system also secrete acetylcholine, which activates smooth muscles, skeletal muscles, glands, and other nerves, and also has some inhibitory effects. The parasympathetic nerves also secrete the enzyme, cholinesterase, which destroys acetylcholine. However, many other types of cell (red blood cells, fibroblasts, sympathetic nerves, marrow cells), maybe all cells, can secrete cholinesterase.

Because cholinergic nerves have been opposed to the sympathetic, adrenergic, nerves, there has been a tendency to neglect their nerve exciting roles, when looking at causes of excitotoxicity, or the stress-induced loss of brain cells. Excessive cholinergic stimulation, however, can contribute to excitotoxic cell death, for example when it's combined with high cortisol and/or hypoglycemia.“ -Ray Peat
Thank-you. I think this is important to understand. There was a study that showed learning didn't happen with high acetylcholine as they expected. The hypothesis being that increasing acetylcholine would promote learning. It was the opposite.
 
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Thank-you. I think this is important to understand. There was a study that showed learning didn't happen with high acetylcholine as they expected. The hypothesis being that increasing acetylcholine would promote learning. It was the opposite.
I think that quote showed a few people, including yourself, are right about the biological reasons why someone can be this depressed. The answers to “unexplainable” depression can be found in ones lacking diet, but you can have the best health and your environment can still kill you.
 
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I can’t help but wonder what someone so suicidal would say to someone else in such dispair, but for a different reason?


 

InChristAlone

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"Furthermore, Altinyazer et al. (2016) showed that among individuals with major depression living in agricultural districts, red blood cell acetylcholinesterase activity levels negatively correlated with the number of past suicide attempts and hopelessness levels30. These reports are consistent with more recent SPECT imaging studies suggesting that levels of acetylcholine are increased throughout the brain in depressed unipolar and bipolar patients31. Thus, considerable evidence suggests that AChEIs reduce elevated mood during mania, increase depressive symptoms in depressed patients, and induce depression in euthymic individuals with a personal or family history of depression.

Acetylcholine precursors, such as deanol, choline, and lecithin, have also been reported to cause depression, and paradoxically hypomania in some cases." Cholinergic Regulation of Mood: From Basic and Clinical Studies to Emerging Therapeutics

So I will say it again.. increasing acetylcholine for someone severely depressed is dangerous no matter if you think their brain needs it to process their shame. This is opposite of what Ray promotes, and the aim of this forum. First do no harm.

Eta: that paper also talks about why nicotine has antidepressant like effects and it isn't because it increases acetylcholine!
 
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HeyThere

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You know its funny how you guys will look at this thread and start blaming acetylcholine for this. As if you genuinely think this kid would not be suicidal if he didnt eat eggs. Reminder of where this kid was coming from. Severe problems stemming from childhood, trauma and orthorexia due to body dysmorphia. Raw vegan in the growing stages of his life (15 years old) for 1.5 years which triggered food intolerances. Keto, carnivore eating with intermittent fasting (starvation) also in his teenage years. My guess is that he was a very avid dairy avoider for most of his teenage years. Doubt he ate dairy during keto and obviously not during raw veganism. So we are definitely looking at possible calcification in his joints causing pain due to chronically high PTH levels due to years of constant dairy avoidance especially during a time where the bones need more calcium to grow.

Severe swelling all over the body due to chronic malnutrition causing low androgens, high basal cortisol and aldosterone due to his orthorexic diet history causing him to retain fluids excessively. And this is just PTH due to lack of calcium we are talking about. There are so many other issues caused by his severely low intake of several important key nutrients due to his orthorexic diet of meat and honey and his past keto and raw veganism dieting and who knows what else.

Our ancestors when they hunted big game would easily eat grams of choline in a single sitting due to the very high content of choline of organ meats which is what they went for first. Even now in modern times we still have people eating tons of eggs nowadays, especially for bodybuilding, powerlifting purposes. Why were our ancestors not extremely suicidal to the point where I would definitely say the human race currently should not be here right now if that was the case. Why are these modern day heavy choline consumers which are mostly strongman and bodybuilders not extremely suicidal?

Not only are they not prone to suicide or depression, some of these guys who ended up in elite competitions got there because they are extremely competitive, self-motivated, driven, despite their choline intake which according to the below basic understanding of many here, should not be the case. Their dopamine activity in the brain should be in the abyss because according to some of you lot even a little choline makes you all depressed. Some I have seen are not even hitting RDA intakes and after just an egg or two you suddenly are depressed? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Why suddenly can we not even tolerate a little choline while in ancient times and even now many in modern times eat grams of choline regularly?

Of course I have some biochemical theories on why some people cannot tolerate choline and why they are prone to depression from choline despite the fact that they may not even be hitting RDA intakes. But in this case biochemical explanations are not important. There is a theory that I got from somewhere else which makes even more sense. Its psychological in nature.

One thing acetylcholine does is increases our self-awareness. This is through its own effects and also through its ability to increase the firing of the other excitatory neurotransmitters because it generally potentiates glutamate which, being the major excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS, increases the activity of the CNS as a whole. I can see clearly what happened here. Its not just acetylcholine related. Its about self-awareness. OP has been living off a very inadequate diet (whether it eas meat and honey, or veganism or whatever else) for a very long time. This in turn leads to a survival state where the brain is no longer concerned with higher-order human thought and self-awareness and emotional processing.

OP unconsciously was able to shove all his trauma and other mental problems down because of self-induced malnutrition. In other words, he was able to significantly numb himself to deep rooted issues because of how poorly he ate. Except it didnt really work in the end. In the end the body eventually just falls apart from malnutrition. He could never sleep at night, he had constant pain, severe fatigue, zero libido and sex drive, digestive issues. All the while he was expecting he could recover in time for boxing classes. Think just how hard he has been trying to ignore his mental issues for so long to get to this state.

And the next thing that happens he comes here, gets some advice from me and a few others, starts eating more whole foods and variety. Suddenly he can sleep easily and all the time. His body finally shut down from the stress somewhat so he could sleep and start the process of regeneration. He is basically on track to improve his health again.

I dont think you all realize how little self-awareness he must have had barely sleeping and barely eating for so long. You wouldnt know unless you experienced the same situation where you deal with chronic insomnia and undereating. Of course he was not outwardly depressed, thats because his brain lacked the capacity to make him aware of his problems. And then ALL these emotional and mental problems come surging back into his conscious awareness as soon as he started eating better and sleeping enough because as the body heals, the brain starts working better again trying to force him to deal with his emotional problems and trauma so he can move forward in his life because his self-awareness and consciousness comes back online. This has been a cycle he has been going through for his whole teenage life probably. Avoiding these kinds of problems whether through starving yourself or taking drugs to numb you out not only can lead to deep depression, but also anxiety, panic disorders, PTSD, addictive behaviors, and also body pains and autonomic dysfunction.

He refuses to accept himself and love himself despite how he looks and all the trauma he has faced, then he starves himself, awareness of the problem dulls and he can go about life with less depression and negative feelings because he doesnt have to face his issues when his body is malnourished. This is my major theory on why choline or just eating better and properly in general can actually end up causing depression in people. Even a little bit extra choline. Ask yourself, what deep rooted issue have you managed to bury for so long that you refuse to deal with? Why do you think so black and white about a singular neurotransmitter, of which if you had none of, you would be dead. Ray through his articles has unfortunately caused many users here to adopt this black and white attitude with acetylcholine which is very wrong and harmful.

What can OP do to get out of this rut he is in? Accept himself and practice self-love so he can begin to process everything he has been avoiding. No one can help at this point like he can help himself by loving himself. Of course its not fair the way he was brought up. Even though its not his fault, it is definitely his problem and only he can solve it.

He is not alone in his suffering. Many suffer constantly through their teenage years and those who survive are the ones who accept and love themselves. Not only can he survive, he can thrive. He has so much time. If he only forgives himself and stops being so hard on himself, he can get through this. But the only way out is through. I would say good luck to OP, but he doesn't need luck. He has everything he needs to get through this all on his own and come out better than before. He just has to believe in himself. Personally I am not worried about him. I am confident he will conquer this.

"And then ALL these emotional and mental problems come surging back into his conscious awareness as soon as he started eating better and sleeping enough because as the body heals, the brain starts working better again trying to force him to deal with his emotional problems and trauma so he can move forward in his life because his self-awareness and consciousness comes back online."


I came here to type this, but you did it first. I am experiencing this in waves myself over the years. You think once you get your brain back out of the fog and your energy back that all is well, when you realize that fog and exhaustion was letting you just survive with hope that if you got mentally and physically better that your life would be great again, then you realize nothing has changed except now you feel GOOD and still have really bad ***t in your life.

By the way, he's such a GOOD LOOKING KID.
 

InChristAlone

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Just so we are clear it isn't acetylcholine that leads to increased self awareness. The cholinergic system is turned ON in learned helplessness. Getting good calories from carbs, fats and proteins are essential for good sleep, not just choline or vitamin A or copper, macros are essential and it seemed he was disordered in how he ate for many yrs. So his brain didn't have the energy to process his trauma. Once he had the energy the emotions come flooding in wanting to be dealt with. This can be absolutely overwhelming for someone who was anhedonic for 7 yrs. And then on top of that the extra choline was excitotoxic. All we can hope for is that his suicide attempt fails and he can get the help he needs.
 

InChristAlone

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He was in dorsal vagal freeze, parasympathetic dominance near death situation:
46257185_2112921875705071_3243550205198467072_n.jpg


And Peat is clear parasympathetic dominance learned helplessness turns ON the cholinergic system, someone with severe depression has very high central acetylcholine. You can't compare one in ventral vagal nervous system regulation to someone in near death shutdown. One is happy and content digests well assimilates nutrients well and the other is in near collapse of all systems.
 

HeyThere

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To be fair, I don't think the info about his childhood was shared until the end of this thread. I could be wrong.

But it could have been assumed since he's such an attractive guy, fit, but seeing a bloated round face where I don't see a big enough difference to starve oneself (which actually was most likely the cause of any face shape change).
 
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Peatness

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Not sure how serious the two concussions were - this thread has some useful info. I added a recent post about the effect of calcium on head injuries

 

InChristAlone

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To be fair, I don't think the info about his childhood was shared until the end of this thread. I could be wrong.

But it could have been assumed since he's such an attractive guy, fit, but seeing a bloated round face where I don't see a big enough difference to starve oneself (which actually was most likely the cause of any face shape change).
Yeah severely disordered and mentally ill sounds like a lot of trauma, nutrition forums are the last place someone with his history should be if they tell him he's not doing it right. He already thinks his entire being is wrong. The Peat forum should be a safe place for someone with learned helplessness since he talks about it a lot and is quite familiar with stress. If we can't even recommend substances Peat himself recommends for severe stress like cyproheptadine then this forum has lost it's purpose.
 

aniciete

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Yeah severely disordered and mentally ill sounds like a lot of trauma, nutrition forums are the last place someone with his history should be if they tell him he's not doing it right. He already thinks his entire being is wrong. The Peat forum should be a safe place for someone with learned helplessness since he talks about it a lot and is quite familiar with stress. If we can't even recommend substances Peat himself recommends for severe stress like cyproheptadine then this forum has lost it's purpose.
This forum has lost its purpose because food was recommended before a drug in a case of severe malnourishment?
 
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"And then ALL these emotional and mental problems come surging back into his conscious awareness as soon as he started eating better and sleeping enough because as the body heals, the brain starts working better again trying to force him to deal with his emotional problems and trauma so he can move forward in his life because his self-awareness and consciousness comes back online."


I came here to type this, but you did it first. I am experiencing this in waves myself over the years. You think once you get your brain back out of the fog and your energy back that all is well, when you realize that fog and exhaustion was letting you just survive with hope that if you got mentally and physically better that your life would be great again, then you realize nothing has changed except now you feel GOOD and still have really bad ***t in your life.

By the way, he's such a GOOD LOOKING KID.

+1
 
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This forum has lost its purpose because food was recommended before a drug in a case of severe malnourishment?
This is true, but people without money or will, and in bleak Russia, would be better served here than anywhere else on the internet.
 

aniciete

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This is true, but people without money or will, and in bleak Russia, would be better served here than anywhere else on the internet.
I walk at least 20,000 steps a day (10 miles) doing bodyweight strength training. I eat 2000 calories, 100-115 grams of protein, 60-70 grams of fat, 200-250 grams of carbohydrates.
Look at his exercise level and calorie intake… his cortisol is sky high. Clearly money hasn’t been an issue before if he’s tried every diet under the sun. Eating the right foods, which others have already recommended, is not expensive.
 

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