Cholinergics are the only thing that makes my digestion move

[feedandseed]

Trying to figure out a good solution for a dilemma I have.

On one hand, I don’t like taking nicotine because of the dependence factor and potential for negative hormonal impact On the other, the cholinergic stimulation (I assume) is seemingly the only thing that makes my digestion move.

On top of this, I benefit massively from cypro for sleep, among other benefits (stops hair shedding, calms eczema, helps allergies) but it seems to slow down my transit time substantially.

Coffee helps a little; but like nicotine, seems to dramatically worsen my sleep (I don’t dream above 40 mg of caffeine a day) and the only way around this is taking cypro for sleep (the anti ACTH/CRH effect I assume) which defeats the transit benefits for the 8-10 hours I’m asleep. Big endotoxin buildup during this time based on morning symptoms.

Is there anything that improves transit which I can take with cypro other than cascara (which causes me to develop infections each time I try it) and magnesium (which doesn’t help my transit time?

OR

is there a powerful anti-CRH (5ht2c?) substance I can use instead of cypro in combination with caffeine so I can get both the good sleep of cypro and transit of caffeine/nicotine?

(I benefit from t3/t4 but it doesn’t seem to improve transit)

 

[feedandseed]

Man I wish idealabs still sold Ritanserin

 

[youngsinatra]

You need the B vitamins for proper acetylcholine synthesis. But especially B1, B2, B5, folate and B12.

I notice very potent pro-cholinergic effects from even low doses of B1, that limits my ability to take it consistently.

 

[Highserotonin90]

@feedandseed What do eggs do to you?

 

[feedandseed]

@feedandseed What do eggs do to you?

Allergic. Probably from vaccines. I supplement choline and it doesn’t seem to do much.

You need the B vitamins for proper acetylcholine synthesis. But especially B1, B2, B5, folate and B12.

I notice very potent pro-cholinergic effects from even low doses of B1, that limits my ability to take it consistently.

B1 doesn’t seem to do anything for transit time. Open to the idea of the others being deficient. I’ll have to try.

 

[peter88]

Allergic. Probably from vaccines. I supplement choline and it doesn’t seem to do much.

What kind of symptoms do you get from eggs?

 

[youngsinatra]

Allergic. Probably from vaccines. I supplement choline and it doesn’t seem to do much.

B1 doesn’t seem to do anything for transit time. Open to the idea of the others being deficient. I’ll have to try.

Do you have sufficient folate intake? Folate deficiency can impair B1 utilization and most people around here get too little of this vitamin.

 

[Peater]

B1 doesn’t seem to do anything for transit time.

A decent dose of B2 definitely improved mine. (I was taking B1 (I forget which form, probably TTFD) sporadically at the time.)

 

[youngsinatra]

A decent dose of B2 definitely improved mine. (I was taking B1 (I forget which form, probably TTFD) sporadically at the time.)

Yeah, the utilization of most B vitamins depend on B2, so that is very important! :)

 

[Candeias]

You need the B vitamins for proper acetylcholine synthesis. But especially B1, B2, B5, folate and B12.

I notice very potent pro-cholinergic effects from even low doses of B1, that limits my ability to take it consistently.

What pro-cholinergic effects do you notice?

 

[youngsinatra]

What pro-cholinergic effects do you notice?

Increased tear production, more saliva, significant reduction in heart rate, stimulates sweating, gallbladder secretion, tendency to depression.

 

[GTW]

Psyllium husk tends to normalize GI function.

 

[Layne]

On top of this, I benefit massively from cypro for sleep, among other benefits (stops hair shedding, calms eczema, helps allergies) but it seems to slow down my transit time substantially.

What is cypro? I did a quick online search and didn't come up with anything? Ciprofloxacin by any chance?

 

[Jonk]

I feel like keeping the intestine as free of irritation as possible while maintaining a fairly high calorie/high carb diet is what works for me. Kind of tricky when eating more food often leads to more irritation. What I did is decided to almost solely focus on getting enough carbs and just recently starting to incorporate beef and beef liver in small amounts. It worked wonders for my digestion, basically eating a ***t ton of potatoes, rice, sourdough bread etc, a little coconut oil to limit persorption and drinking coca cola.

Also if I'm in a endotoxin-burdened state where I basically feel like my intestines aren't moving, I eat wheat bran + water made to a porridge once or twice a day for a few days until I feel complete evacuation. Often it's enough eating it once in the evening and in the morning I take a huge ***t. For a while I did it twice a day for a week and felt it being to irritating, so I see it more as a "reset" and after that focusing more on getting enough well cooked starches and sugar. Salt, magnesium, sunlight and movement also helps.

And I'm not saying you should do what I did in terms of diet, but maybe looking out for potential foods you react negatively to, avoiding additives such as carrageenan, citric acid etc. Eating more salt if you consume a lot of liquids. Listening to cravings is big sometimes.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

B1 doesn’t seem to do anything for transit time

Same for me. But I remember the first few times, I took it, it actually did have that effect. Never after that.

 

[feedandseed]

What kind of symptoms do you get from eggs?

Feels like nitric oxide. Swelling around eyes. Headache, joint pain. Doesn't happen with duck eggs or eggs I ate abroad in southern europe. I suspect it may be more of a soy allergy than an egg allergy, seeing as US chickens are generally fed soy. Duck eggs are sadly rare and expensive here. (US)

 

[feedandseed]

What is cypro? I did a quick online search and didn't come up with anything? Ciprofloxacin by any chance?

Cyproheptadine. 1st gen antihistamine, and the only antihistamine I've tried that doesn't make me depressed.

I'm fairly confident that histamine is pretty important for motivation and mental energy. It's also thermogenic/mitochondria stimulating. As such, blocking it is bad for wellbeing, but it seems like the thermogenic anti-serotonin action of cypro more than compensates.

Cypro is also the only available serotonin antagonist that doesn't give me insomnia.

 

[feedandseed]

Do you have sufficient folate intake? Folate deficiency can impair B1 utilization and most people around here get too little of this vitamin.

I'm eating liver so I sort of doubt that I'm wildly deficient in any major vitamins. Good affordable source of folate other than liver?

 

[feedandseed]

I'm considering mirtazapine as a cypro alternative without the anticholinergic/antimuscarinic effects. I could probably get my student health services to prescribe it. The 5HT3 antagonism concerns me though since that's generally constipating. I wonder if that would be significant in the presence of sufficient cholinergic activity. When I trialed metergoline I had no bowel movement for almost 3 days even with caffeine, so I'm very cautious of 5HT3 antagonists.

 

[Layne]

I'm considering mirtazapine as a cypro alternative without the anticholinergic/antimuscarinic effects.

Hi @feedandseed -- Just to mention, a number of people on the TinnitusTalk forum have reported getting tinnitus, or having their tinnitus get much worse from taking mirtazapine. If you do a search for mirtazapine in the titles on TinnitusTalk, you'll find many threads discussing it. I don't know how prevalent it is as a percentage of people, but something you should be aware of.

There are many other drugs that have been reported to cause or exacerbate tinnitus, and I recommend anybody considering taking a "new" drug, to consider doing an online search containing just the name of the drug and tinnitus. Various anti-depressant and anti-psychotic drugs are some that are often mentioned. Benzodiazapines should be considered very carefully, as they can present many downsides. Some of them are very significant.